GDT: #18 New Jersey Devils at Calgary Flames: Lion King Edition

[Emperoreddy]

Guess you guys have your new scape goat.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

why does it have to be a 'scape goat' thing? when someone plays poorly, they deserve to be called out.

Henrique was also awful last night

 

[Bleedred]

The John Moore signing is really helping right now. Merrill might be playing way too many minutes if we didn't sign a guy like Moore. Merrill's corsi numbers haven't improved much at all from last season. Fenwick seems to be even lower than last year.

 

[NJDevs26]

why does it have to be a 'scape' goat thing? when someone plays poorly, they deserve to be called out.

Henrique was also awful last night

Some guys do get more excuses than others though.

 

[Zippy316]

Last game was a collective ****show, but there was some players that stood out worse than others.

Larsson to me was chasing too much. He wasn't particularly bad but I felt he wasn't his usual steadiness. Greene was the same way so I'm not sure if it was a collective thing or one or the other.

Merrill seemed ok to me but made a few questionable decisions and wiped out a couple of times -- the ice was terribly bad though. Schlemko seemed to over anxious about making a play sometimes, he got caught a few times with this -- might be part of the reason why people thought Merrill looked bad.

Moore - Severson were relatively solid, no complaints there. I still think this team lacks a physical presence on the back-end. Someone intimidating for the other team, could really round out our defense nicely in the future, who knows maybe Santini can be that guy. Wanted to add McQuaid in the off-season to add that.

Greene - Larsson
Moore - Severson
Merrill - Physical D.

The first line just looked miserably average. Second line was pretty solid. Tlusty and Josefson were both invisible but not bad. Tootoo just lacks hockey sense, plain and simple. He's got some skill, I don't really mind him too much on the PP, but he's not a third line player.

 

[Bleedred]

I think it's time that Tootoo is back on the 4th line. Hopefully we sign Kennedy and he works out to be a decent 3rd liner.

 

[Emperoreddy]

why does it have to be a 'scape goat' thing? when someone plays poorly, they deserve to be called out.

Henrique was also awful last night

Don't see anyone calling for Rico to ride the pine.

Greene and Lars had forgettable games and were partially responsible for the first goal. Let's bench one of them for Gely.

People see what they want to see because they have horses and in Merrill's case resentment because Pete kept benching Lars but wouldn't bench Merrill.

Same **** happens when Severson has a bad game. All of a sudden he is overrated and nothing special.

And now there are crys for Gelly and his indispensable offensive skills. Then he comes in, does nothing, continues to look lost defensively and the tune changes immediately to trade him/bench him.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

can you not distinguish the difference between 1 bad mistake or 1 bad game vs. a LOT of bad games in a row (Merrill, ONeill, Gionta, etc)?

 

[MadDevil]

can you not distinguish the difference between 1 bad mistake or 1 bad game vs. a LOT of bad games in a row (Merrill, ONeill, Gionta, etc)?

Okay, so what about Gelinas making the same stupid mistakes that get him benched/scratched? Does he get more chances because he has a big shot? Isn't it on him to realize that maybe, just maybe, he should learn and not do it again?

And I'm not saying Merrill has been great either. I think he still needs to bulk up some so he doesn't get manhandled as much, but I think he helps more in the transition game than Gelinas does, and isn't quite as much of an adventure in his own end.

Plus the coaches are making decisions based on more than just what we see as fans. Gelinas' decision making is far more questionable than Merrill's, and I think that plays into it. Yes, he has a cannon that helps the PP, but is that worth more than the risks he brings at even strength, where a majority of the game is played at?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

when he makes mistakes, he gets sat

so now these other guys have played poorly. so they should be sat

circle of life.

I dont think Gelinas is that great but he cant be worse than what MErrill has been doing

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

I wouldn't mind Gelinas going in for Merrill.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Okay, so what about Gelinas making the same stupid mistakes that get him benched/scratched? Does he get more chances because he has a big shot? Isn't it on him to realize that maybe, just maybe, he should learn and not do it again?

And I'm not saying Merrill has been great either. I think he still needs to bulk up some so he doesn't get manhandled as much, but I think he helps more in the transition game than Gelinas does, and isn't quite as much of an adventure in his own end.

Plus the coaches are making decisions based on more than just what we see as fans. Gelinas' decision making is far more questionable than Merrill's, and I think that plays into it. Yes, he has a cannon that helps the PP, but is that worth more than the risks he brings at even strength, where a majority of the game is played at?

Gelinas has been riding the pine for two mistakes in one game against Ottawa. Schlemko made almost the same mistake last night, leading to a breakaway which Cory stopped - and made about three or four other really bad plays.

I think Gelinas' defensive failures are way overblown on this board. The guy makes mistakes at a higher rate than others - but I don't think we count the times Greene blows a tire - nor do we wait on Larsson screwing up because they've spent enough time on the ice such that the good outweighs the bad.

I'm not saying Gelinas is a defensive stud by any means - but young defensemen need confidence and some faith from the coaching staff and *it wouldn't hurt to pair him with someone who can actually play in the NHL other than the OTHER worst defenseman on our team*.

I'd like to see him back in. His shot is a game changer and we've seen as many examples of that as we have of his mistakes.

I think all of these guys - Merrill, Severson, Gelinas and to a lesser degree Schlemko and Moore (getting posterized by Ovechkin, anyone?) will all have their ups and downs.

it is because they are young.

Niedermayer had them too. So did Paul Martin paired with David Hale.

Keep in mind we haven't SEEN a young Dman through our system in a LONG time. All of our 'new' Dmen were already established men when they started with us.
Greene, Oduya, Rafalski

Edit: Fayne might be the only exception - and he was a source of many headslaps during a season that was one big headslap. I think Colin White/Paul Martin might be the only two that successfully made it thru the system to become contributing players for us. Mike Commodore and Willie Mitchell's time with us certainly wasn't fun and memorable. Corrente? Salmella? OMG? Hale?

 

[NJDevs26]

can you not distinguish the difference between 1 bad mistake or 1 bad game vs. a LOT of bad games in a row (Merrill, ONeill, Gionta, etc)?

You're honestly making the case Gelinas is being sat merely for one bad game? When he was already basically the #7 dman as it is and only in the lineup cause they ran 11-7 for a few games?

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

Merrill has made mistakes, and so has Gelinas (when he was in the lineup). Each of them have potential and positive sides. I'd like to see both of them developed, and ideally not at the expense of the other. It's a delicate business.

 

[Bleedred]

Just got back from therapy.

Need a few more sessions to deal with this loss to a POS Calgary team.

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

Just got back from therapy.

Need a few more sessions to deal with this loss to a POS Calgary team.

I just need us to win Friday. I couldn't handle losing consecutive games to Calgary and Edmonton.

 

[Bleedred]

I just need us to win Friday. I couldn't handle losing consecutive games to Calgary and Edmonton.

We didn't even manage to do that last season with Pete.

I'm already feeling uneasy about Kinkaid possibly starting on Friday. I'd rather play Cory for now. Keith will be getting quite a bit more work soon, we've only played 1 set of our 12 back to backs for the season and we're roughly 22% of the way into the season. We have quite a few back to back's coming up.

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

We didn't even manage to do that last season with Pete.

I'm already feeling uneasy about Kinkaid possibly starting on Friday. I'd rather play Cory for now. Keith will be getting quite a bit more work soon, we've only played 1 set of our 12 back to backs for the season and we're roughly 22% of the way into the season. We have quite a few back to back's coming up.

I hope we go with Cory in net. We need a bounce back game and I have more faith in Cory than Keith (though Keith is a fine backup, don't get me wrong) even if Cory didn't have too great a game by his standards in Calgary. Keith's last start was kind of nerve-racking for me.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

You're honestly making the case Gelinas is being sat merely for one bad game? When he was already basically the #7 dman as it is and only in the lineup cause they ran 11-7 for a few games?

Gelinas was sat for bad plays

Merrill has made plenty of bad plays, especially recently. its time for him to sit IMO.

 

[Bleedred]

I hope we go with Cory in net. We need a bounce back game and I have more faith in Cory than Keith (though Keith is a fine backup, don't get me wrong) even if Cory didn't have too great a game by his standards in Calgary. Keith's last start was kind of nerve-racking for me.

Yeah I'm much more confident with getting a bounce back game out of Cory.

There'll be plenty of time for Keith to see some action coming up here, may as well stick with Cory for this trip though. Had Cory even sat to start a game yet at this time last season? I know Calgary was his first non start of last season and that was this same week last year, but I'm not sure exactly how many games it was into the season. I seem to remember it being 20 or 21 though.

Not to mention that we had already had multiple back to backs by this time last year, we've only had 1 so far this year.

 

[MadDevil]

Gelinas was sat for bad plays

Merrill has made plenty of bad plays, especially recently. its time for him to sit IMO.

I don't think the coaches are basing their decisions just on bad plays though. Yes, Merrill has been inconsistent lately (personally I don't think he's been as bad as some think he has), but I think they still trust him more than they do Gelinas, and they see a lot more of these players than we do. They watch plenty of film, watch them practice, etc.

The thing that bugs me with Gelinas is that he tends to repeat his mistakes. He'll come back looking better after being benched/scratched, but inevitably falls back into the bad habits that got him benched/scratched in the first place. Yes, he's still pretty young, but eventually he has to learn or he'll just be a depth defenseman with a big shot the rest of his career.

It is kind of funny that we used to complain about the logjam on defense, Salvador/Volchenkov/Zidlicky are all gone, and we've got another logjam. I think we need to be on an episode of Hoarders.

 

[Bleedred]

I don't think the coaches are basing their decisions just on bad plays though. Yes, Merrill has been inconsistent lately (personally I don't think he's been as bad as some think he has), but I think they still trust him more than they do Gelinas, and they see a lot more of these players than we do. They watch plenty of film, watch them practice, etc.

The thing that bugs me with Gelinas is that he tends to repeat his mistakes. He'll come back looking better after being benched/scratched, but inevitably falls back into the bad habits that got him benched/scratched in the first place. Yes, he's still pretty young, but eventually he has to learn or he'll just be a depth defenseman with a big shot the rest of his career.

It is kind of funny that we used to complain about the logjam on defense, Salvador/Volchenkov/Zidlicky are all gone, and we've got another logjam. I think we need to be on an episode of Hoarders.

The logjam is why I thought the signing of Schlemko was unnecessary, I wanted to see more of a Peter Harrold type signing or maybe just use Gragnani or Helgeson. It seemed Shero was higher on Gelinas back in the offseason, we easily re signed him and didn't even have to hear any BS from his agent like the year before.

Then we signed Schlemko just a week before training camp started. To be fair though, Schlemko has been good and I've liked his play aside from the power play. It seems he only plays the power play when Gelinas is out. In the games that both Gelinas and Schlemko were in the lineup, I don't recall Schlemko getting the power play time that he gets when Gelinas is out.

As far as who deserves to be scratched right now, I'd say it's Merrill if anyone. Schlemko has been playing really well and a ton better than Merrill.

As sad as it is, Schlemko leads our defense in goals scored this season with 2. Moore, Larsson, Greene, Gelinas, all have one and Severson and Merrill have none. Severson leads the defense in points though, Merrill is the only defenseman on the team right now with 0 points. I don't think it's unfair at all to say Merrill has been the weakest defenseman this season, or at least the weakest that's been in the lineup. Maybe Gelinas has been worse.

The other 5 have all been solid to really incredible, aside from a game here or there.

 

[Devils090]

Players have bad games, and we've been terrible in that building forever. It's nothing to get worked up over, just have to hope the boys regroup and get the next one.

 

[JimEIV]

I honestly believe many have difficultly distinguishing good play from bad play, specifically when it comes to defensemen. Throw a developing player into that equation and I think the critique becomes unreasonable.

Merrill did not have a "bad" game against Calgary...unless you want to get on him for the delay of game penalty. Furthermore, he was very good in the Pittsburgh, Vancouver and both Chicago games.

I'm not sure if it is people not understanding what they are seeing or just wanting to see something else?

 

[billingtons ghost]

I honestly believe many have difficultly distinguishing good play from bad play, specifically when it comes to defensemen. Throw a developing player into that equation and I think the critique becomes unreasonable.

Merrill did not have a "bad" game against Calgary...unless you want to get on him for the delay of game penalty. Furthermore, he was very good in the Pittsburgh, Vancouver and both Chicago games.

I'm not sure if it is people not understanding what they are seeing or just wanting to see something else?

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say this board just likes to argue any position where there is a hint of competition for a spot - and judging 'good' and 'bad' games is just firewood to burn for their point. Schlemko, for example, has been good - but his giveaway in the last game was one of the worst any player has made all season. It would have gotten Gelinas benched for 5 games.

I think as long as there are Matteaus, Gelinas and others sitting out - then we'll try our best to put someone on the bottom of the totem pole. Today it is Merrill. Normally it is Gionta and O'Brien.

None of these guys really turn the tide - but it is all we have to argue right now because the team is playing pretty great.

I guess we could argue whether Kinky should get the start after Cory's weak pair of goals. Personally, I'd rather see Cory get a bounce-back game.