KaseMeOutside
Based
- Oct 18, 2011
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You have to have elite talent
The easiest way to acquire it is high draft picks simple as that
The easiest way to acquire it is high draft picks simple as that
Speculation: ‘20-21 Trade/Free Agency Thread
- Thread starter Ducks DVM
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In Ottawa, it is going extremely well from a long term perspective and exactly according to plan. No one was expecting them to be good this year and, with any luck, they'll have another top 3 pick.
The Mighty Duck Man
R-E-L-A-X
They didn't trade a second for Derek Stepan for this to be the plan. I'm sure they weren't gunning for a playoff spot but no one wants this, either.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
I agree trading Petersson for Sprong wasn't a good move, but there is context amiss. We made the playoffs the previous year and broke the Bruce Conundrum Curse of having home ice advantage with a 3-1 series lead only to lose on game 7 at our own house. At full health, RC lead the team to the Conference Finals. The following year, 2017-18, is when Eaves and Kesler fell off to injury, but we still limped into the playoffs. 2018-19 is when Perry's talent fell off the cliff. We traded for Sprong in 2018-19 season.
Hindsight into Sprong is 20/20. Pettersson was still a prospect. Sprong did score goals with us after we traded for him, but he didn't put in anymore effort to improve. In fact, he regressed.
As for the "not gifting a spot", we could all easily tell that was lie weeks into the season. Yet after the season, GM Murray said he was hands off with Eakins. Could that possibly be part of the reason that the kids were gifted a spot because Eakins wanted them on the roster to begin with? Remember how this year started with all the forwards on-hand, including taxi club ones. Lundestrom was put in over Milano for the first two games. Why? Milano showed production in his short stint under Eakins after the TDL last year. Lundestrom didn't produce a shot, iirc. I think if Jones was healthy to start the season, Milano would be the third depth guy behind Jones and Lundestrom.
Down in the AHL, coach Dineen must have said something to Lundy because Lundy had gained confidence. That confidence carried over back into the NHL when he was recalled. I dunno what Eakins is doing.
There's a lot of info missing when people forget we lost Eaves and Kesler in 2017-18. Lost Perry in 2018-19. Eaves and Kesler were signed to extension starting in 2017-18. Losing those two talents is significant. How do you replace those two talents within a season? You don't. We had hopes Eaves would return for 2018-19, similarly for Kesler. Nope. Eaves was shot and Kesler was running on fumes just to reach 1,000 games played. Our hopes were pinned on Rakell, Kase, and Ritchie to help carry us over the bridge. Kase was made out of glass. Ritchie still was a timid skater. Rakell was exposed to be a very good passenger.
Projected 2017-18
Rakell-Getz-Perry
Eaves-Kes-Silf
Ritchie-Vermette-Kase
Eaves-Kes-Silf
Ritchie-Vermette-Kase
Not a bad top-9. All we had to worry about was getting a 3C the following year.
I don't know what repetitive mistakes you mean besides going back to RC. Even then, I can point to the injuries to Eaves, Kesler, and Perry. It's difficult to replace one of them, but all three is crazy! Also, you can't force other teams to take a trade. We tried for D Faulk last off-season (when no one knew Murray had that deal on-going). Faulk just didn't want move west. This early season, we were in on PLD, but missed out b/c the Jets had a better immediate offer whereas we had the best long term offer. The fact we were in on PLD indicates we have turned the corner as we now have assets we can throw around without sacrificing Zegras and Drysdale.
The organization was stuck behind a rock and a hard place when three of their top-4 scorers go down to injury. Then tack on any other injuries on that and it's ugly. Love Kase, but he's made out of glass. You gonna blame Murray for Kesler, Eaves, Perry, and Kase?
The Mighty Duck Man
R-E-L-A-X
Whether it's mostly Gibson or not, the Ducks can at least say they're in most games and have been generally competitive with some really good teams, whereas Ottawa's been the leagues biggest slump buster after game 1.
a lot of terrible mistakes. And I don’t agree that they’re doing the right thing. Letting your kids flounder like they are isn’t good for their development imo. If anything, luck has helped them. They hit the lottery last offseason and lucked out into another top 5 pick by SJ falling off a quick. Nothing they’ve done is something we should strive for.
look I f***ing hate Murray. Way more and way longer than most, but let’s not pretend he’s keeping us from tanking. We’ve had two 1st round picks each of the last 2 drafts, both had a top 10 pick in each.
if he’s guilty of anything it’s not realizing the core missed its window earlier (though he can thank his dumb ass decision to hire Carlyle again for that). This is going to be the 3rd year in a row we pick top 10. We just haven’t had any lottery luck. You can’t just roster a squad full of kids. That’s how you go full Edmonton. Should Rakell have been traded before now? Possibly, depends on the offers. But it’s not too late to still trade him. Same with Manson.
With Gibson, this team isn’t going to finish last in the league. It’s just not. So unless you’re content with trading Gibson than this “tank more” talk is nonsense honestly.
Kesler? Yes. He re-hired Carlyle (which is an immediate termination move imo) who drove Kesler into the ground. He didn’t hesitate to interject himself into Eakins decisions; why not Carlyle’s? Look at the minutes of forwards Kesler’s last 2 full years. Now look at the company and compare their minutes. McDavid’s minutes weren’t shutdown, fore-checking, pking mins. Yes I completely place blame on stupid ass Murray. He made the decision to kill the core with that coaching move.
Kase? I was happy Murray traded him, but he definitely did not do well enough in that deal. He should have gotten more.
Perry and Eaves are obviously not Murray’s fault.
that’s fair. I completely disagree with that but it’s at least consistent with tanking.
KaseMeOutside
Based
- Oct 18, 2011
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so anything we do won’t change the outcome of the standings? What are we bitching about then?
Trading Gibson should be the last thing we should consider doing. If anything we should be building around him. He is about to enter his prime, no need to trade him in the slightest
How do you build around a guy entering his prime but got no other assets to get other prime players for him to play with. You dont play a prime player next to a bunch of kids. You play old vets with play off experience to play with kids
Prime players play with prime players. And we have no assets to get prime players unless you want to dump zegras
They didn't plan to be this bad, but it really doesn't matter. They'll get another top pick. And you're forgetting: (i) they have to spend to the salary cap minimum; (ii) they target guys like Stepan who have an AAV higher than the actual cash owed; (iii) they have to have players; (iv) Stepan is a pending UFA and can/likely will be traded for an asset; (v) Ottawa had 3 first round picks and 3 second round picks last draft and had two second round picks in 2021 - they traded the lower one (originally belonging to CBJ).
Ottawas roster, prospect pipeline, and salary cap situation is basically ideal for a rebuild. And I think its likely they pick up more assets (first round picks) with the extra cap space they can deploy at the tread deadline. Their awful owner may screw it up - but they have done a great job turning over the roster.
Meanwhile, the ducks are marginally (very marginally) better, both teams won't make the playoffs, yet and baring a lottery miracle, the ducks will suffer for several more years because they lack elite talent.
The Mighty Duck Man
R-E-L-A-X
They didn't need Stepan to hit the floor, they took him on hoping it would help them take a baby step forward and instead they've taken a big boy step back.
The last line is so overdramatic(and not really based in reality) it would be hilarious if you weren't trying to be serious. It's not even coherent. The Ducks are marginally better but the difference of said margin leads to years of suffering? How does that make any sense?
Are you trying not to understand? I didn't say that being marginally better leads to suffering. I said that failing to accumulate better talent does because the team will be stuck in mediocrity. The only thing worse than being bad at hockey (which the ducks are and have been for 3 years now) is being bad and not acquiring talent.
Meanwhile, in another thread your posting that acquiring Eriksson from Vancouver seems like a good idea to you. So there's that, which pretty much speaks for itself.
KaseMeOutside
Based
- Oct 18, 2011
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I don't see how my original statement here was wrong.
You have to have elite players to win championships, or be in the picture.
The easiest way to get them is high picks
Even moreso when you are a small market team like Anaheim.
I am not sure why you even brought up Gibson, I was just making a statement
That's why you inject assets into the roster. You can sign proven veterans to help the kids grow, which will lead to the development of the kids, you can trade players, like a hockey trade for a proven vet, or selling the kids for proven veterans. A top 5 pick can bring in a very, very solid young player to play with Zegras.
Trading Gibson only creates another gaping hole in our lineup. The right move is allocate the core players (Gibson, Zegras, Lindholm, (Or Drysdale if he develops properly), bring in the right amount of veterans to maximize the kid's development, and actively attempt to improve the now improved roster by aquiring players to suite the team's needs.
Now, you say we have no assets to get prime players, yet we have a potential top 5 pick, with a plethora of prospects/young players to trade
You don't trade for a "prime player" when the other "prime player" is a goalie. That "prime" trade isn't even a positive move, because now there is a hole in net. Dostal isn't a sure fire thing either so that arguement isn't valid. Not to mention, Gibson has the potential to be one of the best goalies this sport has seen in a long time. You build a team from the backend out, and trading Gibson doesn't support that philosophy
Just messing around with whomever posted you need veterans to supplement a core piece like Gibson:
This upcoming UFA class potentially features Ovechkin, Landeskog, Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, Hoffmann, Schwartz, and Palmieri. All of them who are proven goal scorers. Throw in Krejci, Stastny, and Staal and you have an admirable group of veterans, most of them not too old, to throw money at. If you really want to go that route, we ought to seek a trade-and-sign route with some of these players in the off-season. "Send Terry to COL for Landeskog's talking rights if he hints at wanting to sign here." and the like.
Sounds good to you? Me, neither.
But we could definitely utilize the plethora of B-prospects that we have in order to land either proven middle-six players who are around 30-ish or use our middling players like Rakell to stockpile on high-end draft picks. Don't you think a team like Ottawa would gladly give up their first that only has the chance of landing a good player with an NHL ETA of 2+ years for a proven player who can already help them out and guide their young guns?
Either way, we ought to have a clear plan for this off-season. We need to get proven NHL level talent, and quite frankly, even Elite talent at that. You can pursue the UFAs and throw shitloads of money at them for signing here, sure. But you could also try to just capitalize on what we have (LOTS of close-to-NHL-ready talent with long-term perspective) and sell high on them for players who help us the next season already.
A not-completely-unrealistic roster for next year could be:
Rakell (3.8M) - RNH (6.0M) - Palmieri (4.5M)
Zegras (.925M) - Getzlaf (4.0M) - Silfverberg (5.25M)
Comtois (1.8M) - Steel (2.3M) - Terry (1.45M)
Deslaurier (1.0M) - Grant (1.5M) - Rowney (1.5M)
Fowler (6.5M) - Drysdale (.925M)
Lindholm (5.2M) - Hakanpää (2.0M)
Larsson (1.2M) - Hutton (1.2M)
Mahura (1.3M)
Gibson (6.4M)
Dostal (.822M)
That's only 59.5M in cap for these players, and I think the re-signing of Getzlaf, if he still wants to play, will definitely not be higher than 4.0M and both UFA signings in RNH and Palmieri are counted for as even more expensive than they will be. If we sign Steel to a long-term contract, he might also be at around 4-5M per year, but that would clearly not break our neck financially-speaking. Add in the 2M for Perry's buyout and notice that we will always sink Kesler on LTIR, and you have a somewhat competent roster and still have some nice players in the minors.
This roster has Henrique, Heinen, Jones, Shattenkirk and Manson leaving via trade for picks and prospects, but we might also consider getting NHL-level talent back for the likes of the latter four players. Hell, many great players become RFA after this season and we could easily afford throwing money at them. If you get two out of Henrique, Shattenkirk, and Manson off the books for scraps, you can offer sheet Elias Pettersson for 8.725M and only lose one year's 1st/2nd/3rd, which would make us a much better team easily and these picks way worse than not having him on board.
This upcoming UFA class potentially features Ovechkin, Landeskog, Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, Hoffmann, Schwartz, and Palmieri. All of them who are proven goal scorers. Throw in Krejci, Stastny, and Staal and you have an admirable group of veterans, most of them not too old, to throw money at. If you really want to go that route, we ought to seek a trade-and-sign route with some of these players in the off-season. "Send Terry to COL for Landeskog's talking rights if he hints at wanting to sign here." and the like.
Sounds good to you? Me, neither.
But we could definitely utilize the plethora of B-prospects that we have in order to land either proven middle-six players who are around 30-ish or use our middling players like Rakell to stockpile on high-end draft picks. Don't you think a team like Ottawa would gladly give up their first that only has the chance of landing a good player with an NHL ETA of 2+ years for a proven player who can already help them out and guide their young guns?
Either way, we ought to have a clear plan for this off-season. We need to get proven NHL level talent, and quite frankly, even Elite talent at that. You can pursue the UFAs and throw shitloads of money at them for signing here, sure. But you could also try to just capitalize on what we have (LOTS of close-to-NHL-ready talent with long-term perspective) and sell high on them for players who help us the next season already.
A not-completely-unrealistic roster for next year could be:
Rakell (3.8M) - RNH (6.0M) - Palmieri (4.5M)
Zegras (.925M) - Getzlaf (4.0M) - Silfverberg (5.25M)
Comtois (1.8M) - Steel (2.3M) - Terry (1.45M)
Deslaurier (1.0M) - Grant (1.5M) - Rowney (1.5M)
Fowler (6.5M) - Drysdale (.925M)
Lindholm (5.2M) - Hakanpää (2.0M)
Larsson (1.2M) - Hutton (1.2M)
Mahura (1.3M)
Gibson (6.4M)
Dostal (.822M)
That's only 59.5M in cap for these players, and I think the re-signing of Getzlaf, if he still wants to play, will definitely not be higher than 4.0M and both UFA signings in RNH and Palmieri are counted for as even more expensive than they will be. If we sign Steel to a long-term contract, he might also be at around 4-5M per year, but that would clearly not break our neck financially-speaking. Add in the 2M for Perry's buyout and notice that we will always sink Kesler on LTIR, and you have a somewhat competent roster and still have some nice players in the minors.
This roster has Henrique, Heinen, Jones, Shattenkirk and Manson leaving via trade for picks and prospects, but we might also consider getting NHL-level talent back for the likes of the latter four players. Hell, many great players become RFA after this season and we could easily afford throwing money at them. If you get two out of Henrique, Shattenkirk, and Manson off the books for scraps, you can offer sheet Elias Pettersson for 8.725M and only lose one year's 1st/2nd/3rd, which would make us a much better team easily and these picks way worse than not having him on board.
I dont think we will be signing any FA this next year. We have too many NHL level forwards as it is. I think he will try to trade for someone using our assets. If we do sign one, it wont be RHN as our 1st line center.
Also I would keep Heinen over any of the current young NHL group on the team.
Also I would keep Heinen over any of the current young NHL group on the team.
The Midnight Burrito
True Fan
Actually the easiest way to acquire high draft picks is by trading elite talent.
McDonald19
Registered User
Maybe go after Barkov next year if he doesn’t want to stay in Florida.
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