Zetterberg not a first-ballot Hall of Famer....

MBH

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I've always been a huge Osgood fan, but I also think unless the HHOF really lowers the standards for goalies they let in, he belongs firmly entrenched in the Hall of Very Good, as well as the Hall of Feel Good with his redemption winning the 2008 Cup.

I think the bolded is something that frequently gets glossed over in Osgood HHOF debates. Probably especially from people who didn't see all or at least most of Osgood's NHL career and are just going by the numbers.

Unlike his same era HHOF and HOVG contemporaries, Osgood didn't have a typical "peak" or "prime" career arc where he was some in demand highly regarded starting goalie. At 28YO, he was in a lame duck spot with the Wings looking to move him, but ultimately couldn't put together a trade and he moved in the waiver draft. At 32YO, he comes out of the lockout spending some time getting ripe in the UFA bargain before he comes back to Detroit for peanuts - A move that doesn't really get a whole lot of enthusiasm out of the fan base. Most of those contemporaries would not have found themselves in those spots at those ages.

And as for career arc, his isn't really an "arc" but more of a rollercoaster ride:

-Hard to blame him given he was a 21YO rookie, but his surprise 1st year ends with an infamous gaffe that leads to the Wings losing in the 1st round to a barely out of the expansion draft Sharks
-Osgood was ultimately never able to overtake Mike Vernon in the 3 years they platooned. At least when it came to their play on the ice.
-You'll never have a hard time finding someone that will say the '98 Cup was won "in spite of Osgood" and they might easily recall the Jamie Langenbrunner red line WCF OT squeaker and other questionable goals against from those playoffs
-Was a big part of the Islanders surprise resurgence in 01-02, but then gets cast off the next year when he gets injured and then outplayed by Garth Snow
-His forgettable tenure with the Blues is marked by a 1st round collapse after being up 3-1, and then a pretty easy 1st round elimination the next year
-He returns to Detroit expected to be the starter, but groin injuries ruin his opportunities the first year, then he takes a back seat to Hasek for a 2nd time, where injuries help keep him in the #2 spot
-Between his Cup win as a starter in '08 and a stellar run to game 7 of the '09 SCF is an absolutely abysmal regular season
-He barely starts after Jimmy Howard takes over the starting job, and then he retires with little fanfare after an injury ends his last season.

Up until he finally won the Vezina, I thought that MAF might end up being a close comparable to Osgood. Similar career arcs with multiple Cups/finals appearances with a mixed bag as to whether they were starter or backup, fanbase scapegoating, "in spite of" or "played behind good teams" narrative behind successes, unexpected success with a new team after going there in a "draft" of NHL talent and then a late career redemption.

The only example that might muddy the water in terms of being "highly regarded" would be Bill Ranford. For years during the 90's, the media continually pushed him as a top goalie in the league while he put up pedestrian numbers for the Oilers and had to play like garbage for the Bruins and Caps before they finally relented.
That late surge for MA Fleury extended to the regular season.
In those 4 Vegas years, he won the Vezina and finished 4th and 5th.

Ozzie did manage an 11th place finish in his late surge in Detroit in 2008 in what was essentially the high water mark of his the second half of his career. But he played just 43 games - the second-highest total in his second stint in Detroit.

But in totality, his his final 6 years, he was under .900 three times.
 

OgeeOgelthorpe

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How long have you been a hockey fan?
Very few Red Wings fans who existed in the days of Osgood believe he's a Hall of famer.

Cujo and Luongo were at times dominant.

Osgood vs Barrasso is a very good comparison.
But Barrasso beats Ozzie because he had more seasons where he was highly regarded.

You cannot call Osgood a "hall of fame" goalie when he had one year as a top 5 goalie in the league.

The only reason Osgood even gets talked about is the "wins" stat - a team state,

I've been a wings fan for over 30 years and my family are former season ticketholders. And stating very few Wings fans from those days believe Ozzy is a hall of famer is false. It was pretty heavily discussed after his official retirement and when polled more Wings fans believed he was deserving of it.

Ozzy may have had the good fortune of winning with Detroit but he was a major part of it. Like I said before, look at his playoff stats. He was a better playoff goalie than a regular season goalie. Also I don't give a shit about individual awards or where he placed in voting for those awards. The hall of fame doesn't operate on the scoring system HFBoard members like to apply to determine eligibility.

Osgood had a career worthy of celebrating. He was a very good to great goalie in the league for a very long time, and in an era where the top 4 goalies from 1994 to 2004 (Hasek, Roy, Brodeur, Belfour) would have cast a shadow over just about every goalie since 2005 save for maybe Lundqvist and that very brief Tim Thomas peak.
 
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ricky0034

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honestly I wouldn't even really call the Conn Smythe an individual award

even ignoring the sample size issues voters are really only even considering players from two teams when it comes time to vote on it no matter how well you do individually

see: McDavid not even getting so much as a single 3rd place vote for it this year while guys like Palat and Nichuskin did for a typical example of why it's nothing more than a glorified team award
 

MBH

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I've been a wings fan for over 30 years and my family are former season ticketholders. And stating very few Wings fans from those days believe Ozzy is a hall of famer is false. It was pretty heavily discussed after his official retirement and when polled more Wings fans believed he was deserving of it.

Ozzy may have had the good fortune of winning with Detroit but he was a major part of it. Like I said before, look at his playoff stats. He was a better playoff goalie than a regular season goalie. Also I don't give a shit about individual awards or where he placed in voting for those awards. The hall of fame doesn't operate on the scoring system HFBoard members like to apply to determine eligibility.

Osgood had a career worthy of celebrating. He was a very good to great goalie in the league for a very long time, and in an era where the top 4 goalies from 1994 to 2004 (Hasek, Roy, Brodeur, Belfour) would have cast a shadow over just about every goalie since 2005 save for maybe Lundqvist and that very brief Tim Thomas peak.

He absolutely had a career worth celebrating.
So did Kris Draper. Kirk Maltby. Darren McCarty. Martin Lapointe. Nik Kronwall.
And a whole bunch of important Red Wings not worthy of the Hall.



Therese are just some of the goalies who I 100 percent believe were better and more deserving of Ozzie.

Obviously better.
Hasek.
Roy.
Brodeur.
Belfour.

Clearly better
Cujo
Vanbiesbrouck
Kolzig
Nabokov
Kiprusoff
Luongo

In the same range but better
Vernon
Barrasso
Fuhr
Richter


Guys around his level
Sean Burke
Trevor Kidd
Felix Potvin
Hextall (despite awards)
Irbe
Khabibulan
Turco - even though he was better at his peak
Vokoun
Moog
Ranford

You have one stat to put Ozzie in the Hall.
Wins.
Which might be worst goalie stat of all time.

Hall of Fame induction is for the players who capture the imagination of fans around the world.
Outside of Detroit,fans who had an Osgood jersey? A few weirdos, maybe.

How many hockey fans were pining for Osgood in the offseason the way we pined for Nabakov or Kiprusoff or whoever?
 
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ShelbyZ

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That late surge for MA Fleury extended to the regular season.
In those 4 Vegas years, he won the Vezina and finished 4th and 5th.

Ozzie did manage an 11th place finish in his late surge in Detroit in 2008 in what was essentially the high water mark of his the second half of his career. But he played just 43 games - the second-highest total in his second stint in Detroit.

But in totality, his his final 6 years, he was under .900 three times.

Yea, now that I think about it, I think I meant when MAF went to the finals with Vegas that first year, and not when he got the Vezina. He was much closer to (if not behind) Osgood by that point but certainly went ahead even before the Vezina.
 

MBH

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Yea, now that I think about it, I think I meant when MAF went to the finals with Vegas that first year, and not when he got the Vezina. He was much closer to (if not behind) Osgood by that point but certainly went ahead even before the Vezina.
He was floundering before Vegas. Lost his starter's job.
Now he's overrated again.
 

jaster

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honestly I wouldn't even really call the Conn Smythe an individual award

even ignoring the sample size issues voters are really only even considering players from two teams when it comes time to vote on it no matter how well you do individually

see: McDavid not even getting so much as a single 3rd place vote for it this year while guys like Palat and Nichuskin did for a typical example of why it's nothing more than a glorified team award
chapelles-show-head-exploding.gif
 

The Real Pastafarian

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So...I started this thread, I didn't want to comment on it until it petered out.

This was a great discussion. A lot of you guys (honestly every single one of you) know more about hockey than I ever will, and the people that agreed with me made me feel less alone; and those that disagreed....shit, you guys made some good points. Particularly about Luongo. So that made me feel much less upset.

All I have to say is: Zetterberg and Datsyuk had better f*cking make it into the HHOF next year, or I will COMPLETELY LOSE MY SHIT and each of you will learn new profanities so viscerally revolting that you will go blind, lose control of your bowels (permanently), and will have to be institutionalized, where you'll have only limited access to hfboards.com.

Great talk fellers!
 
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Bondurant

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Struggling to comprehend how Mogilny cannot make a hockey HOF. Easily one of the most important players of the last 30+ years. Not too shabby on the ice to boot.

Biased as Wings fan but Z should make the cut. Too bad he did not have a twin to use as a gimmick.
 
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