So in your experience, the majority of 19 year old kids are mature and ready to bust their ass in their professional careers right off the bat? Come on now.
Zadorov vs McCabe
- Thread starter Dubi Doo
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So in your experience, the majority of 19 year old kids are mature and ready to bust their ass in their professional careers right off the bat? Come on now.
Not saying it's an accomplishment, please don't put words into my mouth. What I'm saying is that he's capable of busting his ass, and getting the work in. He might have had the timing all screwed up, but he still put in the work to get to a point where he was useful.
Listen, I know he screwed up a couple times, but he's a freaking kid. I'm not ready to label him a head case, or lazy, or whatever dumb label is being put on him right now, it's way too early. I'm ready to overlook some of these silly things next year, and I feel like he's going to be a straight up beast. Now if he comes in this year all out of shape, and has attitude problems, then obviously, the message isn't getting across.
But as of right now, I have no problem with Zads at all .... none.
Kublakhan
Lets Go Buffalo !!!
you do not think his agent saying he'd like to see him playing in the KHL was not sending a message??
“Even if he did go back to London, is he going to develop better in London or Russia, (in the) KHL playing with men?†Hedges said. “From a development point of view, the issue is what’s best for Nikita Zadorov, London, Russia? Everybody has a different answer for that one.â€
This is actually what his agent said ...
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=63204
joshjull
Registered User
We don't know that. He worked to get in shape during the season because he had no choice. What you're missing is he needs to become self motivated to do the work without adults on his ass to do it.
When posters talk about him not taking being a pro athlete seriously yet, thats part of what they are talking about. Being in shape when you get to camp is pretty much pro athlete 101. Its about being self motivated in the off season to put the hard work in. Guys like Risto, Girgs, Kane, Reinhart, Bogo, etc have been driven in the summer to do the work they need to to play the upcoming season.
That he worked hard with basically a gun to his head, while coaches and vets kept on him, is hardly an indication he can put the work in needed to be a pro athlete.
For an example of the exact opposite mentality, look at what Reinhart did. He was tasked by Murray and our training staff, after he was sent back to juniors, to bulk up during his season. As Murray put it, Sam has to find the time to fit it in around the work he was already doing with his junior team. Basically extra work on top of everything else he was doing. The results at the end of the year were good since Murray was very happy with the strength he added. Thats a self motivated player that gets it.
I haven't given up on him either nor do I think he is a problem child………. yet. He will make a lot of my concerns go away if he comes into camp in shape and ready to roll. Because that means he put the work in on his own in the offseason. Then we will know he is capable of doing it.
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Behind Bogo as well.
Which is why I would trade Pysyk before these two. Please read the whole of my post.
(Don't think there is any way Bogo, Risto or Pystk can effecively be as good playing LHD).
I'll bet you a beer that he comes to camp in great shape.
Then he has a real nice year, with no distractions, and his rookie season will be a distant memory.
Kublakhan
Lets Go Buffalo !!!
yes but he also said ..
“He obviously wants to play,†Hedges said. “He would like to show management what he can do. He just wants to play hockey, whether it’s for the Buffalo Sabres or whoever owns his rights. He knows who owns his rights. He knows he has to go back to Russia. He has no control in that.â€
and
“Buffalo doesn’t want to lose control, in fairness,†Hedges said.
“But the rules are the rules. If he was a North American, he would have to go back to junior. Then everybody knows what the rules are.
“When you’re European, it depends on how the release is structured. So if he’s good enough to stay in the NHL, he can stay here.â€
I think if he goes back to Russia to play,being home with his new wife and possibly his best friend Grigorenko..He will not be back..Sad because he can be an NHL beast with just a bit of tuning.
joshjull
Registered User
Behind Bogo as well.
Which is why I would trade Pysyk before these two. Please read the whole of my post.
(Don't think there is any way Bogo, Risto or Pystk can effecively be as good playing LHD).
Don't know til its tried.
I want to see a Bogo/Risto top pairing tried with Zads/Pysyk behind them.
great, I hope so and if he does I'll be his supporter.
until he does, there are question marks....
The 2nd half of his last season with Wisconsin and the first half of his season with Rochester sure. But other than that he's been very steady.
Ruckus007
where to?
So in your experience, the majority of 19 year old kids are mature and ready to bust their ass in their professional careers right off the bat? Come on now.
How many 19 year olds have played an organized sport well enough to be drafted? Zadorov is good enough to be a first round pick and play at the highest level and it's not like he just rolled out of bed and onto the ice one day in 2013 and decide to pick up the game. He's played likely most of his life. A "majority of 19 year old kids" aren't his peer group and it's specious to suggest that he should be considered equally with some slacker down the street, IMO.
joshjull
Registered User
Well said
It drives me crazy when posters say its unfair to compare Zads to Risto. That Risto is an exception to the norm. No he isn't. Risto is just like Girgs, Reinhart, soon Eichel for the Sabres. Then looking around the league at the very talented youngsters that excel in the league as teenagers and become superstars. They worked their ass off to get here and continue that work to be the very best they can be. I don't recall many if any showing up out of shape and unable to play to start the season. The exception is Zads not Risto.
That doesn't mean he can't mature and become more dedicated to his profession. I think its a given he will be an effective top 4 dman. But to become the very best he can possibly be and tap into all of his potential he needs the inner drive that the others I mentioned have. Its fair to wonder if he will ever have that drive. Part of what makes the very best what they are is an inner drive to match their talent. They generally have it from the get go.
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JJ - I'd have no problem trying that - it would solve a lot of problems if it worked.
But correct me if I'm wrong - Risto has never played LHD & reading comments from Atlanta/Winnipeg fans - it never really worked with Bogo when they tried it there.
Basically unless Zadorov develops into the player he can (but may / probably not ever will) be I see the future as
XXXX-Risto
McCabe/Zadorov-Bogo
McCabe/Zadorov-Pysyk
With Pysyk being a huge luxury as a 'third' pairing player.
Short of having to use a Reinhart to net a true top pairing guy to fill XXXX (something I would do but reading here most of you would not) - I see Pysyk + as being the most valuable guy to move along with other assets to eventually fill XXXX. I just see too many question marks on the LHS to risk trading either McC or Z.
Of course this may change in a year or 2 or three - they may get lucky via the draft or in a trade for someone who explodes afterwards... but at this point in time I can't risk moivng either & why I move Pysyk over both. Nothing against MP as a player in his own right.
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This plus what London fans have said about his personality for the last 2 years plus what I saw on the ice in London is why I keep my expectations of him very low. If he pans out then awesome. If not then I'm not going to be disappointed like the people who consider him an elite prospect. He's not an elite prospect and there's probably 10+ D Prospects I would gladly trade him for.
Doug Prishpreed
Registered User
Winnipeg tried Bogo on the left and it didn't work out very well. With Postma I think? It was a short-lived experiment. Personally I think Pysyk is much better suited to be able to play on his off side.
joshjull
Registered User
They didn't forget it because it never happened.
I know you spent all year dismissing all concerns with Zads and defended him at every turn. But you have to be kidding me trying to pretend Risto as a rookie was in the same boat as Zads coming into last year. I don't recall remedial conditioning on and off the ice as well as working extra with coaches and vets for almost a month to get Risto ready to play after the season already started. But I do remember Zads doing that this past season.
Btw Risto, on his own, decided after his rookie year he should slim down and get more lean muscle mass. He worked his ass off last summer and too the amazement of many came back much lighter but stronger than his rookie year. Thats a pretty self motivated individual.
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Beerz
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- Jun 28, 2011
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Kublakhan
Lets Go Buffalo !!!
I don't get this at all...Right from the draft Risto said all the right things and backed them up with his play..
Beerz
Registered User
- Jun 28, 2011
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Kublakhan
Lets Go Buffalo !!!
Beerz
Registered User
- Jun 28, 2011
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typical Beerz
Well. Read what you wrote in response to my statement and tell me what that has anything to do with anything. It's obvious you don't get it.
Kublakhan
Lets Go Buffalo !!!
Why don't you go ahead and break out the proof that Risto was out of shape physically or mentally for his rookie season, you pull that statement out of the air??
Now Zads was pretty much both..
