Zadorov or Graves

Who to Keep?


  • Total voters
    117

Richard88

John 3:16
Jun 29, 2019
19,180
20,813
Compher didn't do much of anything. But I'm confident a top 6 winger bumping down Nuke into permanent 3rd line duty would cover for that. Namestnikov had some moments.
Bednar was venting about our 3rd liners all playoff long in press conferences. Namestnikov started the playoffs on the top line and worked his way all the way down by being totally anonymous for the most part. If he's brought back on a cheap deal I won't complain as he doesn't cost us anything to acquire, but I do think we need some significant improvement from that "3rd" line (which was effectively our 4th line against Dallas).
 
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Avsboy

Registered User
Dec 12, 2006
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Bednar was venting about our 3rd liners all playoff long in press conferences. Namestnikov started the playoffs on the top line and worked his way all the way down by being totally anonymous for the most part. If he's brought back on a cheap deal I won't complain as he doesn't cost us anything to acquire, but I do think we need some significant improvement from that "3rd" line (which was effectively our 4th line against Dallas).

One improvement would be parking Nichushkin there. He's good defensively and can chip in on the offensive side. Right now Nuke is in the Top 6 - a huge problem. Dadonov would bump him down. Donskoi, who won't be going anywhere, is the obvious candidate for RW on the 3rd line. The center shouldn't be Compher, I agree there. The best candidate would be Namestnikov. I don't think Sakic needs to perform massive surgery on the lineup and acquire both a Top 6 winger and 3C...Top 6 winger and a huge upgrade on goalie is all the Avs really need.
 

Richard88

John 3:16
Jun 29, 2019
19,180
20,813
One improvement would be parking Nichushkin there. He's good defensively and can chip in on the offensive side. Right now Nuke is in the Top 6 - a huge problem. Dadonov would bump him down. Donskoi, who won't be going anywhere, is the obvious candidate for RW on the 3rd line. The center shouldn't be Compher, I agree there. The best candidate would be Namestnikov. I don't think Sakic needs to perform massive surgery on the lineup and acquire both a Top 6 winger and 3C...Top 6 winger and a huge upgrade on goalie is all the Avs really need.
I actually think Nichuskin was better when he was on the 2nd line. On the 3rd line he didn't accomplish much of anything. Perhaps he needs to play with other big bodies who can keep the cycle game going, like Landeskog instead of smaller forwards like Namestnikov or Jost.
 

Avsboy

Registered User
Dec 12, 2006
32,243
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I actually think Nichuskin was better when he was on the 2nd line. On the 3rd line he didn't accomplish much of anything. Perhaps he needs to play with other big bodies who can keep the cycle game going, like Landeskog instead of smaller forwards like Namestnikov or Jost.

Nuke didn't do anything at all, anywhere in the lineup. Checking role.
 

Moosehead1

Registered User
Nov 29, 2006
690
336
One is not like the others.

Skills =/= Roles. Agreed that G is a better defensemen but Byram, Makar (Honorable Mention to timmins) could be / are better than G on a long term roster. G, He's great, just soft.
 
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Moosehead1

Registered User
Nov 29, 2006
690
336
Byram can't play in the AHL until he's 20, as per the WHL/NHL rules. It's either back to juniors or staying in the NHL for him, though a year in the AHL would have probably suited him best.

Trading Girard would be silly, especially since Pittsburgh have nothing that would be of interest for Girard.

Ah that kind of throws a wrench in this convo, in a good way. I don't think Byram makes the jump from WHL to NHL. A signed Murray + with G in the convo is ok with me.
 

McJedi

Registered User
Apr 21, 2020
10,393
7,214
Florida
Cole has been OK, but he's gone after next season I think. That'll give Byram a season in the A and who knows with Timmins. Also don't we have a pretty decent prospect in Helleson coming up along the way, too? Maybe nothing changes. But after Cole ages out and further EJ, I wouldn't mind if the aves made a push for murray and sent one of Girard, Z or Graves to Pitts. I don't think Hank is a good fit for the aves by virtue of longevity, as much as I love and respect his game.
If Cole was Ok, it wouldn’t matter. But he’s so far from ok. He’s a turnover waiting to happen. His defense sucks. His transition sucks. His effort level sucks. His offense sucks. He flat out sucks. All this hand wringing over Graves or Z. The inconsistency. Sure. They are inconsistent. Cole is consistent in how much sucks. Sucks. If he’s didn’t suck, he would have gotten more ice time in the playoffs. If Byram is somehow worse than Cole next year, we have a Byram problem on top of our Cole problem.

Girard for Murray is insulting. wtf.
 
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McJedi

Registered User
Apr 21, 2020
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I think you're overreacting with regards to Cole. And acquiring an over-the-hill goaltender with an $8m caphit isn't the solution. Did you watch Lundqvist in the Carolina series? Pretty shaky..
Did you watch Cole in the playoffs? He can’t complete a pass. Can’t stick handle or skate. He can’t go two shifts without a turnover. He can’t defend. Doesn’t protect the net. Can’t kill penalties. Can’t key transition.

What does Cole do? What does he do well? Kinda block shots I guess. For 4.25mm, he’s worthless.

Why are we even talking about Graves or Z. They have some utility. Cole has nothing but negative impact on this Avs team. He brings nothing to the table at this stage of his career.
 

Avsboy

Registered User
Dec 12, 2006
32,243
16,657
Cole is a given: he must go. But Avs have to cut another defenseman, and the only choice is Z and/or Graves.
 
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Cousin Eddie

You Serious Clark?
Nov 3, 2006
40,152
37,330
Watch this story by Aleksandra Zadorova on Instagram before it disappears.
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Richard88

John 3:16
Jun 29, 2019
19,180
20,813
Did you watch Cole in the playoffs? He can’t complete a pass. Can’t stick handle or skate. He can’t go two shifts without a turnover. He can’t defend. Doesn’t protect the net. Can’t kill penalties. Can’t key transition.

What does Cole do? What does he do well? Kinda block shots I guess. For 4.25mm, he’s worthless.

Why are we even talking about Graves or Z. They have some utility. Cole has nothing but negative impact on this Avs team. He brings nothing to the table at this stage of his career.
If we have surplus capspace then Cole would be fine as 7D as insulation for Byram and Timmins, assuming of course that he's ok with that role.
 

shadow1

Registered User
Nov 29, 2008
16,595
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I really hate to speculate on injuries, but if Timmins injury was what we think it might have been, I don't think the Avalanche will move either one of these players (unless the defense is completely re-tooled).

Zadorov had a much better post-season than Graves, who struggled. But unlike Zadorov, Graves actually proved during the regular season that he can be consistent with top-4 minutes. We've been waiting to see that from Zadorov since 2015, basically.
 

Islay1989

Registered User
Feb 24, 2020
3,840
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I really hate to speculate on injuries, but if Timmins injury was what we think it might have been, I don't think the Avalanche will move either one of these players (unless the defense is completely re-tooled).

Zadorov had a much better post-season than Graves, who struggled. But unlike Zadorov, Graves actually proved during the regular season that he can be consistent with top-4 minutes. We've been waiting to see that from Zadorov since 2015, basically.
Well Graves played with Makar, who he IMHO held back quite a bit.
 
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McJedi

Registered User
Apr 21, 2020
10,393
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Florida
If we have surplus capspace then Cole would be fine as 7D as insulation for Byram and Timmins, assuming of course that he's ok with that role.
No team has a surplus of cap space to spend on a bum like Cole. Sakic does this team a massive favor trading Cole, even if it costs a pick or prospect and spending that money elsewhere. Someone like DeMelo that actually tries to defend and clear the net. Don’t really care if the replacement can skate or pass because Cole can’t. But they do need to try harder than Cole does. And they need to at least be able to chip the puck off the glass and out, another thing Cole can’t do because he’s busy turning it over instead. Our Cole replacement just needs to play harder and smarter on the Pk and in his own zone. Not much to ask. Lots of guys fit this bill. They just need to bigger and try harder than Cole does.
 
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McJedi

Registered User
Apr 21, 2020
10,393
7,214
Florida
Cole is a given: he must go. But Avs have to cut another defenseman, and the only choice is Z and/or Graves.

Graves / EJ
Girard / Timmins
Byram / Makar
Zadorov

if you get a 7th, you’ve traded Z and signed some one in UFA. Makar does need a better partner than Graves. Will eventually be Byram. Graves needs to focus on PK work and being more physical with that size of his. Then he plays 3rd pair and does Pk work. I have some doubts he can but the guy can skate and can shoot. He stick handles decently. You’d like to see him limited to around 16-17 minutes a game vs the 20+ he played in the playoffs.

before the playoffs, the thought was Cole could play but now we’ve seen him blow a playoff run while playing like absolute garbage. Now the Avs know we can’t ever let that (Cole) happen again.
 
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Bill Peckerskull

Fargin' Icehole
Feb 19, 2003
47,946
51,665
Castle Rock, CO
To get rid of Cole Joe would have to eat some of his cap hit, or add a 3rd or 4th round pick to trade him. No one is trading anything of value for him and his $4.25M cap hit.
 

McJedi

Registered User
Apr 21, 2020
10,393
7,214
Florida
To get rid of Cole Joe would have to eat some of his cap hit, or add a 3rd or 4th round pick to trade him. No one is trading anything of value for him and his $4.25M cap hit.
I’d would fall all over myself running into a trade Cole and our 3rd round pick for a 7th round pick in 2027. A 3rd round pick to free up a roster spot wasted on that clown and 4.25mm in found cap space is a dream that won’t come true.
 
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Pokecheque

I’ve been told it’s spelled “Pokecheck”
Sponsor
Aug 5, 2003
46,185
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Cole's probably not going anywhere. He'll play out the final year of his deal and that will be that. I expect to see a degree of improvement this offseason, however short, since he won't be recovering from major surgery this time around. There's reason to hope he'll rebound well enough--I don't think enough of us realized just how much losing all that conditioning time did to his game. Just didn't have the pushoff or strength he usually does.

If he ends up being the 7th d-man I'll be thrilled. But if he's merely #6, I'll be fine with that too. I just don't want him any higher than that.
 

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