Zadorov or Graves

[Avsboy]

One probably has to go on top of Cole leaving. Who's in the Graves camp? Who's in the Zadorov camp?

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[ASmileyFace]

Z. Plain and simple. Graves can f*** off to Seattle

 

[Iracundia]

The Avs need guys who are durable and don’t breakdown by round 1 so the obvious answer is EJ must be moved

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

I voted neither, but with Timmins injury possibly being a career ender, you probably have to keep 1. If I have to choose, I choose Graves based solely on cost.

Graves played top 4 minutes essentially as a rookie this year, while Zads was mostly a 3rd pairing guy. Graves will cost less than half of what Zads does too. No way should Joe pay Zads $3.5M-$4M a year to play in the bottom pair.

If he wants to keep Zads, IMO, he needs to unload Cole, and explore trading Graves for some kind of help, like in part of a deal for Danault.

Problem is, no one wants Cole, not at that price, so you either have to eat some of his cap hit, or include a higher pick along with him to get someone to bite.

 

[Foppa2118]

Advantage Zadorov

• Better defensively than Graves when he's on his game
• Has shutdown top players in Tkachuk and Seguin in the playoffs before
• Brings a more dynamic game with his hitting to generate momentum swings
• Popular guy in the room and keeps guys loose
• Better point shot though he doesn't use it much

Advantage Graves

• Much more consistent game to game than Z
• Better relationship with Bednar
• Has much better chemistry with Makar
• Might be cheaper than Z to re-sign
• Better puck handler and passer

I don't think either are with the team long term, but I think you base this on whoever has the higher value in trade. They have to bring in a better partner for Makar though if they're moving Graves. Otherwise it's a no brainer to keep Graves for their chemistry.

 

[Kaizer]

Advantage Zadorov
...
Advantage Graves
...

Good list. Zadorov is also better penalty killer but I would disagree that Graves is better puck handler and passer, even if there's a difference it's negligible. I also would not count on chemistry with Makar - tired how many times Graves ruined our possession by some inaccurate pass or shot, he somehow thinks that his offensive skills are comparable to Makar so he must try to do the same.

In the end, it looks like a choice between 5th D-man (with some PK time) for 4 million a year and Nick Holden Jr.

 

[Foppa2118]

Good list. Zadorov is also better penalty killer but I would disagree that Graves is better puck handler and passer, even if there's a difference it's negligible. I also would not count on chemistry with Makar - tired how many times Graves ruined our possession by some inaccurate pass or shot, he somehow thinks that his offensive skills are comparable to Makar so he must try to do the same.

In the end, it looks like a choice between 5th D-man (with some PK time) for 4 million a year and Nick Holden Jr.

I definitely would like to upgrade on Graves for Makar's partner, if we're going to be pushing Makar into a true top pairing role.

Nobody else aside from Graves (and G but they don't want to do that pair full time) really developed much chemistry with Makar though. Graves just kind of wins by default.

 

[dahrougem2]

In a perfect world? Neither.

If we absolutely have to keep one? Zadorov and I don't even think it's close but that's just me. I would bet Sakic feels the complete opposite way as well as Bednar given Graves' usage vs Zadorov's this season.

I think we see Graves extended long term this offseason while Zadorov is given the boot, unfortunately.

 

[Goulet17]

I had resigned myself to Z leaving and I can appreciate the reasons why. But having watched Graves throughout the playoffs, I am not quite sure that I would not jettison him this offseason. It appears that Bednar and Pratt are clearly in the "Team Graves" camp and given Z's contract status this off season, I think it is likely a moot point.

I saw signs of the Avs getting pushed around physically in the playoffs at times last year and this year, but Z pushed back and actually played well. I thought he was actually surprisingly good against Nashville the year before.

 

[The Kingslayer]

I had resigned myself to Z leaving and I can appreciate the reasons why. But having watched Graves throughout the playoffs, I am not quite sure that I would not jettison him this offseason. It appears that Bednar and Pratt are clearly in the "Team Graves" camp and given Z's contract status this off season, I think it is likely a moot point.

I saw signs of the Avs getting pushed around physically in the playoffs at times last year and this year, but Z pushed back and actually played well. I thought he was actually surprisingly good against Nashville the year before.

The year the Avs played Nashville Z was our best dman hands down. I was so hyped he could bring that same play into next season consistently but he couldnt.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I think I lean towards Graves.

Weird saying that since Zadorov was the better player in the playoffs.

I think if you trade Graves you’re basically forcing yourself to play Makar and Girard together.

When that happens, the Avs second pair is hurt significantly.

If it’s who you want to keep for the 3rd pair I’d probably roll with Zadorov, but for next season I think Graves is more valuable.

 

[El Travo]

You know what you got in Zadorov. He's a bottom pairing guy who can sometimes elevate his game to a top-4 role (keyword "sometimes"). He brings a physical element depending on his mood. Very inconsistent but not the worst guy to have on the bottom pairing.

Graves was pretty much a rookie this year. He may fall back or he may improve next year. It'd be a mistake to pencil him in as a top-4 guy on the team, but he could potentially grow into it.

I think Zadorov brings more to the team when he's on his game.

 

[Hasbro]

100% depends on contract and trade return.

 

[hughdreamz]

Neither. Zadorov will require too much money and I can no longer stand his slow Hockey IQ. Graves has value right now. Move him while you can.

Sign 1 depth UFA D-man (DeMelo) and be done with them.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Graves easily.


He is the mich better player. Top lairing minutes are probably too much for him but he is definitely better than Z

 

[SirLoinOfCloth]

For me it's Z and not close. This year Z single handedly shut down McDavid, and has done the same with other top players. Graves' +/- was, in my opinion, a fluke, and had he not had such an inflated +/- he wouldn't be hyped the way he is. This playoffs he showed his true colors, he was out of his depth and doesn't have the game breaker ability Z has.

Now, Z needs to be better and more consistent. I wish I knew how we could get that. He was great in the playoffs I thought. Every Dman had a couple of brainfarts at least, and Z was not immune to them. But he was solid. If this playoffs has shown me anything it's that we need players who can step up in the postseason, not those who can't handle the pressure: see Frank, Graves, Cole, Compher, etc al.

Z is going to be more pricey than we are probably willing to pay though

 

[Ararana]

I feel about Graves the way I fealt about Kerfoot last year. I will be so happy when he's gone.

That doesn't mean I think they should keep Z either. If Z doesn't price himself out of Colorado I'm fine with keeping him for another short contract, but I have a feeling Bednar is ready to move on.

Just add Byram and Timmins and deal with the rookie mistakes next year. They'd still have Johnson, Cole, Girard, and Makar to lean of for experience. Obviously Makar's skill makes up for only a year of experience.

 

[Alex Jones]

Graves played much much much better this year than Z ever has. I don't think it's a contest.

 

[MarkT]

I have to wonder how many of you are basing your opinion on the Dallas series where Graves was "exposed" and Zadorov played really well at times.

I on the other hand remember when it was the common opinion around here that Z should be traded this offseason and Graves is really impressive for a rookie and is a good partner for Makar right now.

Honestly, the speed at which some of you are willing to give up on a rookie is astounding. Maybe we should wait until Graves has played 100 games before we write him off?

Now don't get me wrong, I like Z and I'd be happy with him on the team long term. But 3.2 million is too much for a bottom pair guy, and that's what his qualifying number is. So unless Z is willing to take a big discount from his current salary, it's time to say goodbye.

Graves, meanwhile, could be perfectly good as a depth defenseman for us for many years, and he may actually get better as he gains experience. I see absolutely no reason to move him unless he's the piece that gets us a player we really need.

But please, keep in mind when you're comparing the two that Z has 356 games of NHL experience compared to Graves' 95. They may be the same age, but they're very different in terms of their experience.

 

[Moosehead1]

I’d prefer a player that has the ability to elevate his game during the playoffs.

but I’m not ready to give up on graves either: he was very bad in the Dallas series but he played well against arizona. I know I know, lol.

Interesting decisions to be made, really excited to see what the D looks like coming out of camp. If Timmins recovers ok and Byram can outplay someone for a roster spot, I’d almost see girard as the expendable defensemen. That’s not a knock on his play AT ALL. Just the type of defensemen whos roles are filled.

 

[MarkT]

I’d prefer a player that has the ability to elevate his game during the playoffs.

but I’m not ready to give up on graves either: he was very bad in the Dallas series but he played well against arizona. I know I know, lol.

Interesting decisions to be made, really excited to see what the D looks like coming out of camp. If Timmins recovers ok and Byram can outplay someone for a roster spot, I’d almost see girard as the expendable defensemen. That’s not a knock on his play AT ALL. Just the type of defensemen whos roles are filled.

If Sakic trades Girard I'm changing my vote in the 'Sakic as GM' thread to a 1.

 

[Moosehead1]

If Sakic trades Girard I'm changing my vote in the 'Sakic as GM' thread to a 1.

Lol I’d reserve judgement until I saw the return.

 

[McJedi]

One probably has to go on top of Cole leaving. Who's in the Graves camp? Who's in the Zadorov camp?

Attach an asset and get rid of the disgrace and debacle of a player they used call Ian Cole. Saves the Avs 4.25mm to not throw into the fire the way we did with Coles money this season. He’s the only negative value asset on the team so remove it.

 

[McMetal]

Graves is a passable #4. Zadorov is a good #5 who occasionally peaks up at a top 4 level. I say keep Graves. He was far more consistent this year as a rookie, although with a lower ceiling, and as long as he doesn't have to play on the top pair he is perfectly fine.

I think it's time to just put Girard and Makar together, and start to limit Gravy's minutes. Zadorov is going to regress to an inconsistent bottom pair guy again next year, and he'll be paid way too much for that role.

 

[klozge]

For me keeping Z is a must-do. Depending on his next contract I would keep Graves as well, though.