Zadina is Yzermans new Drouin

[TheMule93]

Still waiting for him to fill anyone's nets

 

[Go Wings]

Zadina has got to be one of the worst passers I have ever seen at the NHL level.

He thinks he is Larionov making blind passers but he isn't even close.

He justs throws the puck in the general area of his teammates and hopes they get it.

Stick to shooting because passing isn't your thing Zadina.

 

[Gniwder]

I personally would give Smith a chance. When I say muscle that doesn’t mean just weight

Other than Smith this team doesn't have any big bodies or strong guys playing wing. That was my point.

In the end, Joey might wind up being the strongest if he keeps bulking up at the rate he's going.

 

[ShanahanMan]

He was brutal tonight, probably the worst guy on the ice. Constant turn overs, bad passes, weak shots, and falling down left and right.

 

[NervousPerson]

Zadina has got to be one of the worst passers I have ever seen at the NHL level.

He thinks he is Larionov making blind passers but he isn't even close.

He justs throws the puck in the general area of his teammates and hopes they get it.

Stick to shooting because passing isn't your thing Zadina.

I don't remember who said it and I don't remember what I was watching years ago but the quote was something like "I've see players who couldn't shoot. I've seen players who couldn't skate. I've seen players who couldn't hit or fight. But I've never seen an NHL player who couldn't pass."

Looks like we have a first!

Just kidding. I'm pulling for the guy. He's still pretty young. I think he'll figure it out in time.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Zadina might be a bust. I hate to say it.

 

[Go Wings]

I don't remember who said it and I don't remember what I was watching years ago but the quote was something like "I've see players who couldn't shoot. I've seen players who couldn't skate. I've seen players who couldn't hit or fight. But I've never seen an NHL player who couldn't pass."

Looks like we have a first!

Just kidding. I'm pulling for the guy. He's still pretty young. I think he'll figure it out in time.

I hope he does figure it out I really do. We need 2 strong lines not just 1 and Zadina needs to be part of that.

 

[FMichael]

He was brutal tonight, probably the worst guy on the ice. Constant turn overs, bad passes, weak shots, and falling down left and right.

There are those who claim "corsi or advanced stats" or whatever...Maybe my eyes are failing me, but I have yet to see anything resembling what might be considered a top 6 forward by NHL standards.

 

[jaster]

Breaking down Zadina's "shot"....

PART 1

What goes into a shot? Many things. Velocity, accuracy, release. Those are probably the most popular factors considered. But depending on the circumstances surrounding the shot, there are other attributes. Scoring touch (ability to score in different ways), anticipation (shooting position), deception (ability to deke the goalie or get him moving). It's this latter set of more subjective attributes where I think Zadina lacks, and which helps explain his low career shooting %.

I'm wrapping his slap shot, snap shot, and wrist shot all into one basket here so as not to get too far in the weeds. I don't think any of his shot types are appreciably better or worse than the others.

Ratings as a "goal scorer" at the NHL level....

Velocity - B+
Accuracy - C
Release - B

Overall, he has a good shot based on the primary attributes. And I think this is why he's put up good goal totals at lower levels. His shot, on its own, was good enough to beat kids consistently. So why hasn't it translated yet to the NHL?

Touch - D+
Anticipation - C
Deception - D

It's these attributes that separate the wheat from the chaffe at the NHL level. Plenty of guys who score in junior or even the A just never do translate that to the NHL. Others do. You can have a great shot, but the speed of the game dictates you must have things like touch, anticipation, and deception to rise above.

 

[jaster]

PART 2

Touch - Zadina mostly takes what's given to him in terms of opportunity. He doesn't score as wide of a range of goals as Larkin/Bert/Raymond, nor does he get as wide a range of scoring chances or shots as those three. There's something to be said about linemates here, but Zadina presents as more of just a simple shooter to me. He's not getting the gritty goals like Bert, the speed-based goals like Larkin, or the creativity-based goals like Raymond.

Anticipation - He's ok here. When the Wings have possession he does roam around trying to find soft spots of the ice to get open for a pass and shot, or one-timer. But he's also not as good at it as our three better forwards. He's a little predictable and is more prone to feeding the shinpad monster.

Deception - Ugh. Highlighted the other night by Mickey in analyzing his breakaway. There is little-to-no deception to Zadina's shots. He doesn't head-fake, doesn't toe-drag, he doesn't get the goalie moving, he doesn't typically apply much stickhandling prior to his shots where that would be appropriate. And in this category there's not much to do about it. I think it's the speed of the game that is eating him up here.

His shooting % this season is 5.9, and for his career it's 8.1 (across 102 games and 209 shots). For someone tabbed as having goal-scoring ability, that is pretty awful. His % this season should be due for some regression, and his career % has a chance for a little. But there isn't much to suggest to me he'll ever come close to the 13-14% that is about the average for guys who score 20+ goals. Maybe in a given season, but not for his career.

In the end, despite still being young, Zadina's goal-scoring ceiling has come way down from draft day. Luckily, he's a fairly complete player and can be a valuable middle-6 winger now and in the future. And perhaps he can increase his scoring a meaningful amount. But any belief he could one day be a top-line player has pretty much evaporated at this point. I think the best we can ask for is he manages to average about 20 goals a season through his prime.

 

[TheMule93]

Zadina looks pretty good and confident handling the puck, but he has zero hockey sense, his shot is poor, and he lacks athleticism. I see a 3rd line winger / 2nd PP unit guy as a reasonably achievable goal for him.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

PART 2

Touch - Zadina mostly takes what's given to him in terms of opportunity. He doesn't score as wide of a range of goals as Larkin/Bert/Raymond, nor does he get as wide a range of scoring chances or shots as those three. There's something to be said about linemates here, but Zadina presents as more of just a simple shooter to me. He's not getting the gritty goals like Bert, the speed-based goals like Larkin, or the creativity-based goals like Raymond.

Anticipation - He's ok here. When the Wings have possession he does roam around trying to find soft spots of the ice to get open for a pass and shot, or one-timer. But he's also not as good at it as our three better forwards. He's a little predictable and is more prone to feeding the shinpad monster.

Deception - Ugh. Highlighted the other night by Mickey in analyzing his breakaway. There is little-to-no deception to Zadina's shots. He doesn't head-fake, doesn't toe-drag, he doesn't get the goalie moving, he doesn't typically apply much stickhandling prior to his shots where that would be appropriate. And in this category there's not much to do about it. I think it's the speed of the game that is eating him up here.

His shooting % this season is 5.9, and for his career it's 8.1 (across 102 games and 209 shots). For someone tabbed as having goal-scoring ability, that is pretty awful. His % this season should be due for some regression, and his career % has a chance for a little. But there isn't much to suggest to me he'll ever come close to the 13-14% that is about the average for guys who score 20+ goals. Maybe in a given season, but not for his career.

In the end, despite still being young, Zadina's goal-scoring ceiling has come way down from draft day. Luckily, he's a fairly complete player and can be a valuable middle-6 winger now and in the future. And perhaps he can increase his scoring a meaningful amount. But any belief he could one day be a top-line player has pretty much evaporated at this point. I think the best we can ask for is he manages to average about 20 goals a season through his prime.

Surely several people in our org. have identified T/A/D & your other pts., & relayed them to Zadina. So isn't it just a matter of time before it registers? (hopefully)

100gp, so he likely has another ~100 games before he's truly on the hot seat (trade bait). Early indications are he's still rounding out his game, adjusting to QoC & new L2 (again) which factors in.

Touch
Anticipation
Deception

Processing the NHL @ game speed is a fine line for sure & he could fall either way imo. TBD.

When he made his debut, you could tell he thought it'd be much easier (see Cossa @ Rookie camp), & that his shot would be his meal ticket. I still see him looking at his stick after a given save by the goalie/missed shot etc...as if it's the sticks fault. Or some other body language tells me he hasn't admitted to himself (maybe not even fully realized) it's on him.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

Zadina looks pretty good and confident handling the puck, but he has zero hockey sense, his shot is poor, and he lacks athleticism. I see a 3rd line winger / 2nd PP unit guy as a reasonably achievable goal for him.

Honestly, I don't see a future with Zadina on this team. I'm kind of expecting him to be part of a change-of-scenery trade at the deadline.

 

[MBH]

His 5 on 5 p/60 is worst among all Wings forwards except Givani Smith.

 

[heyfolks]

He's as predictable a player as you will see on the ice. A snipe that hasn't translated and his other skills are 3rd line, at best. The problem here is he isnot going to be a gritty player and he is prone to mistakes. I agree with the change of scenery deadline deal. Kenny's good-bye gift.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Deception - Ugh. Highlighted the other night by Mickey in analyzing his breakaway. There is little-to-no deception to Zadina's shots. He doesn't head-fake, doesn't toe-drag, he doesn't get the goalie moving, he doesn't typically apply much stickhandling prior to his shots where that would be appropriate. And in this category there's not much to do about it. I think it's the speed of the game that is eating him up here.

I’ve seen him in shootout or breakaway situations before where he does try to stick handle and open up the goalie. And when those don’t work, I bet you can guess what Mickey says.

“Come on Filip, shoot the puck. Stop trying the fancy stuff and use that shot”

He’s bouncing between overcomplicating things and oversimplifying things

 

[jaster]

I’ve seen him in shootout or breakaway situations before where he does try to stick handle and open up the goalie. And when those don’t work, I bet you can guess what Mickey says.

“Come on Filip, shoot the puck. Stop trying the fancy stuff and use that shot”

He’s bouncing between overcomplicating things and oversimplifying things

Oh I've seen him make a move. Not saying he's never done it. But I'm describing his body of work as a whole, relative to other players. In tight, or with a backchecker on him, he generally feels the pressure and reacts in a more panicked way compared to his peers. Maybe that's all confidence, maybe it's all an inability to adapt to the speed of the game, or maybe it's somewhere in between. Time will tell.

 

[jaster]

Surely several people in our org. have identified T/A/D & your other pts., & relayed them to Zadina. So isn't it just a matter of time before it registers? (hopefully)

Who can say for sure? Everyone has their ceilings, and while Zadina is still young and can improve, I do not believe he will reach the goal-scoring heights put on him on draft day. You can only coach a guy up so far. At some point his physical abilities, or IQ, or whatever, limit him.

100gp, so he likely has another ~100 games before he's truly on the hot seat (trade bait). Early indications are he's still rounding out his game, adjusting to QoC & new L2 (again) which factors in.

Touch
Anticipation
Deception

Processing the NHL @ game speed is a fine line for sure & he could fall either way imo. TBD.

When he made his debut, you could tell he thought it'd be much easier (see Cossa @ Rookie camp), & that his shot would be his meal ticket. I still see him looking at his stick after a given save by the goalie/missed shot etc...as if it's the sticks fault. Or some other body language tells me he hasn't admitted to himself (maybe not even fully realized) it's on him.

He's definitely still attempting to adjust. How much he succeeds in that endeavor is yet to be seen. I'm certainly hoping for the best.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

I have been harsh on Zadina but at the very least he seems to be…:

a) Competing
b) motivated
c) seemingly has the right idea most plays

These traits are important as I believe he has the drive to get better rather than being delusional about self ability or entitled. Maybe he puts it together and is a legit scoring threat, maybe he’s a classic “if only” player but we need to keep in mind he is still only 21. He’s only 18 months older than Zegras for example who everyone is still salivating over despite similar production this year (obviously ignoring some context but you get what I mean).

Basically, I see his flaws being rather easy to identify and things you can work on. Honestly if anything I’m more worried about his overall athleticism and skating ability than shot accuracy. I think the latter will come. Unsure about the initial though.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Who can say for sure? Everyone has their ceilings, and while Zadina is still young and can improve, I do not believe he will reach the goal-scoring heights put on him on draft day. You can only coach a guy up so far. At some point his physical abilities, or IQ, or whatever, limit him.



He's definitely still attempting to adjust. How much he succeeds in that endeavor is yet to be seen. I'm certainly hoping for the best.

I'm happy if we get a consistent 50-55pt+ , 200ft. player that gives us 6-7 seasons of that production on L2 & finishes each year as a + player.

Same for Fabbri, but w/maybe 3-4 seasons due to his age already.

 

[Dotter]

I've pretty much lost interest in Zadina and Fabbri. They don't provide enough scoring depth. If DRWs want to be a wildcard team, those 2 players need to be replaced and improved.

 

[The Zermanator]

@jaster Won't go as in depth as you have but I've had similar feelings on Zadina. He's improved a lot of aspects of his game and is clearly an NHLer. His backchecking and defensive game is good, he can move the puck up ice well. He just hasn't been able to put it together and reach the next level in terms of point production. Not ready to write him off just yet though, many players have developed a new gear past 21 years old. But my worry with him is that he just doesn't have the goalscorers IQ. It's not his hockey IQ in general, like I said he's developed into a useful player more generally. But he just never seems to be in a position for those grade A scoring chances. He gets a good look here and there but that's bound to happen anyway. He needs to be consciously putting himself into dangerous positions to score and I'm just not seeing it. I hope he figures it out but my worry is that he just doesn't have that in him. It's not the end of the world if he ends up as a 0.5 PPG defensively responsible winger, that's a valuable player who can make positive contributions. But without developing that killer instinct, he will never become a difference maker.

 

[MBH]

Zadina
Points/60: 0.61 - 13th out of 14 Red Wings.
Shots/60: 7.61 - 6th out of 14 Red Wings.
Individual high danger shot attempts/60 - 1.83. 12th of 14
CF% - 49.38 - 4th out of 14

His on-ice stats are pretty good. About what you'd want from your second liner on a weak team.
His production is awful. His 5 on 5 production makes Drew Miller look like Gretzky. It's atrocious.

 

[jaster]

@jaster Won't go as in depth as you have but I've had similar feelings on Zadina. He's improved a lot of aspects of his game and is clearly an NHLer. His backchecking and defensive game is good, he can move the puck up ice well. He just hasn't been able to put it together and reach the next level in terms of point production. Not ready to write him off just yet though, many players have developed a new gear past 21 years old. But my worry with him is that he just doesn't have the goalscorers IQ. It's not his hockey IQ in general, like I said he's developed into a useful player more generally. But he just never seems to be in a position for those grade A scoring chances. He gets a good look here and there but that's bound to happen anyway. He needs to be consciously putting himself into dangerous positions to score and I'm just not seeing it. I hope he figures it out but my worry is that he just doesn't have that in him. It's not the end of the world if he ends up as a 0.5 PPG defensively responsible winger, that's a valuable player who can make positive contributions. But without developing that killer instinct, he will never become a difference maker.

Totally, yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at with him. It's kind of weird to have previously been called a Zadina hater. I like him and I like his game overall, don't hate him at all. It's just that he's fallen off his trajectory since draft day. He can certainly recover some of that moving forward, I just don't think he can recover all of it. That goal scoring instinct he was drafted with just didn't completely translate to the NHL. It happens, but like you said, he can still be a valuable player and I think he will be.

 

[GettingYourMoms]

I've pretty much lost interest in Zadina and Fabbri. They don't provide enough scoring depth. If DRWs want to be a wildcard team, those 2 players need to be replaced and improved.

drw are not gonna be wild card team for a long time