Player Discussion Zack Kassian

[TopShelfGloveSide]

It doesn't matter. Does this mean he shouldn't be bringing it, playng responsibly? This is twice the amount of money that Wayne Gretzky made here.

He's a vet player not leaving it on the ice the vast majority of the time and he cheats offense in EV play and who knows why. Unless he's placed on topline he gets nothing done and is as bad as Brodziak has been. Zach started the season playing so poorly there were rumors he wanted out. That he only resembled a very disgruntled player is unsettling.

In the money time of this season Zach was nowhere to be found. AGAIN.

Through October, November, December of 2018 this player had 3pts in 36GP, nearly half a season, and was -8 during that tenure playing against weakest possible opposition you can see in the NHL.

So more than half the season he was complete junk, and one reason why the team struggled out of the gate. Not just was Zach not contributing ANY production for the first half of the season he was allowing over 3GA/EV60mins. A shockingly bad number for a player playing bottomsix opposition and who is a vet, on the pk, and expected to make a defensive contribution. Yet there was Zach countless times losing contain on the boards in own zone as he jumped forward instead of being between own goal and the puck.

These are the players that cause teams to lose games. Zach is a considerable part of why our bottomsix has been buried this season.

Aren’t you a big defender of Rieder? Who gets paid more than Kassian and contributes even less?

 

[Little Fury]

Aren’t you a big defender of Rieder? Who gets paid more than Kassian and contributes even less?

Reider's having an awful year, but Kassian has had consistency issues his entire career. It's what he does.

 

[joestevens29]

Reider's having an awful year, but Kassian has had consistency issues his entire career. It's what he does.

Reider's bad play goes back to last year as well. Guy literally is doing nothing on this club yet people want to give him some sort of pass?

Oh ya I forgot Reider brings stability to our PK

 

[Spawn]

Your phrasing is interesting if not disingenuous.

You use a time frame to highlight Kassians negatives and then use number of games to highlight the positives.
Why is that disingenuous...because the time frame to highlight the negatives includes months of time when there was no hockey. Approx 8 months of off season time.
Now obviously I am not suggesting that Kassian has been good more than bad since the 2017 playoffs but if you want to paint a picture at least phrase this in a honest way.

So if you are going to count games I would suggest to you that there were games since 2017 when Kassian did play good hockey but the issue was that (until the last 20-25 games) they were few and far between.

You’re arguing semantics I think.

Everyone knows what I mean.

Mailed it in for the vast majority of the 2017-18 season as well as the first 1/2 of this season.

Does that work better?

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Reider's having an awful year, but Kassian has had consistency issues his entire career. It's what he does.

Okay but dumping on a player with 10 goals while defending one with 0 with an equal cap hit (pretty much) is a little ridiculous no?

 

[Little Fury]

Reider's bad play goes back to last year as well. Guy literally is doing nothing on this club yet people want to give him some sort of pass?

Oh ya I forgot Reider brings stability to our PK

I don't see anybody giving him a pass.

 

[guymez]

You’re arguing semantics I think.

Everyone knows what I mean.

Mailed it in for the vast majority of the 2017-18 season as well as the first 1/2 of this season.

Does that work better?

I dont think I am arguing semantics. How things are framed matters.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Aren’t you a big defender of Rieder? Who gets paid more than Kassian and contributes even less?

This is Rieders worst ever season, an anomaly, unlike anything else in his career. Zach has made a history of underperforming. Kassian is a talented player that has fallen back to what he is and never really sought more. With the gift of size as an advantage.

What Kassian leaves off the table in potential is the main concern.

In anycase I find it odd how anytime someone brings up something regarding a player it needs to be compared to another player, as if its the other player we're talking about. This is a Kassian thread.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Reider's having an awful year, but Kassian has had consistency issues his entire career. It's what he does.

Exactly. Since when has lack of effort been a problem for Rieder. The guy skates miles, plays an honest game, and is scored on half the amount that Kassian is.

Rieder 1.6GA/EV 60mins (freakishly good numbers)

Kassian 3.1GAEV 60mins (brutal numbers)

But that never gets looked at here. i.e. which players are actually being responsible out there.

Kassian has hurt the Oilers team this season and last. Rieder hasn't. One of these players bleeds goals against and they shouldn't be happening and its due to how uncommitted Kassian is to sound defensive play.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Exactly. Since when has lack of effort been a problem for Rieder. The guy skates miles, plays an honest game, and is scored on half the amount that Kassian is.

Effort > skill? Is Chia back?

 

[joestevens29]

Exactly. Since when has lack of effort been a problem for Rieder. The guy skates miles, plays an honest game, and is scored on half the amount that Kassian is.

Rieder 1.6GA/EV 60mins (freakishly good numbers)

Kassian 3.1GAEV 60mins (brutal numbers)

But that never gets looked at here. i.e. which players are actually being responsible out there.

Kassian has hurt the Oilers team this season and last. Rieder hasn't. One of these players bleeds goals against and they shouldn't be happening and its due to how uncommitted Kassian is to sound defensive play.

Reider hasn't scored once

 

[Drivesaitl]

Effort > skill? Is Chia back?

If you don't see the skill Kassian has in cycle, in moves around the net, in scoring acumen the rare time he gets the chance I can't help you. This is a player that doesn't look out of place in topsix. The trouble is, this same player, with hands, does the least possible work on any other line.

Kass is a 13th pick. Not some no talent slouch. His combination of size and modicum of skill was thought to translate to some success at this level. He has tons of advantages. Reasonable skating, size, strength and decent hands. He reminds me of Pouliot in the sense that he has so many assets and doesn't use them. Kassian can really elevate his play when he wants to.

 

[Davo Ikinzom]

I'll take Kassian on this team over Rieder every single day of the week.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Reider hasn't scored once

This is your myopic reply.

He has a few less pts than Kassian does. In his worst ever season by miles.

Usually Rieder has an average of 14goals and 30pts. This is an untypical year scoring wise. I give the player slack because in his career effort has never been lacking. He's had some misfortune around the net but also with the injury he's completely lacked the breakaway speed he typically has. Thus not getting the same scoring chances he usually would. I think he's been hampered by the injury. he was buzzing a lot on the forecheck, stripping some pucks, making some plays on the roadtrip. I think he's starting to feel better out there.

ps is it so hard to spell Rieder?

 

[CornKicker]

id keep Kassian over reider because when the playoffs do come around you have to have players like kassian.

plus hes better

 

[joestevens29]

This is your myopic reply.

He has a few less pts than Kassian does. In his worst ever season by miles.

Usually Rieder has an average of 14goals and 30pts. This is an untypical year scoring wise. I give the player slack because in his career effort has never been lacking. He's had some misfortune around the net but also with the injury he's completely lacked the breakaway speed he typically has. Thus not getting the same scoring chances he usually would. I think he's been hampered by the injury. he was buzzing a lot on the forecheck, stripping some pucks, making some plays on the roadtrip. I think he's starting to feel better out there.

ps is it so hard to spell Rieder?

Kassian is 5th in team goals up front, something this team lacks. Reider has zero and as mentioned numerous times started going downhill last year. Many people that watched him said he wasn't a NHLer last year in LA and this is showing up yet again. It might just be that Reider is nothing more than a 4th liner/pk with no offensive upside.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I'll take Kassian on this team over Rieder every single day of the week.

Would you have said this in November when Rieder had 7pts before his injury, in 16gp and Kass had 1 pt?

Its fine that people are looking at recency, but people are looking at recency. Which is about as silly as how the Oilers rank and evaluate players.

If Rieder is in the NHL next year I would pretty much bank on him having more production and being a better player than Kassian. He's been a better player than Kass even this year. But people only look at points for, not against.

Kassian has bled goals this season. In easy bottomsix and bottomline minutes. You have to be astounding bad playing bottomsix QOT almost exclusively and have over 3GA/EV60mins. But again people don't even look at the latter. Even though GA has been the most salient aspect of Kassians game this season.

 

[guymez]

At the same price point the Kassian / Rieder choice is a no brainer.

That said Kassian still has to be a more consistent player.

 

[bucks_oil]

If you don't see the skill Kassian has in cycle, in moves around the net, in scoring acumen the rare time he gets the chance I can't help you. This is a player that doesn't look out of place in topsix. The trouble is, this same player, with hands, does the least possible work on any other line.

Kass is a 13th pick. Not some no talent slouch. His combination of size and modicum of skill was thought to translate to some success at this level. He has tons of advantages. Reasonable skating, size, strength and decent hands. He reminds me of Pouliot in the sense that he has so many assets and doesn't use them. Kassian can really elevate his play when he wants to.

He was meant to be a rich-man's Moreau. Playing a heavy game nightly is hard, not everybody has the heart for it.

That's a great reason to get rid of him... similarly, it's a great reason to keep him around for the playoffs (assuming we had the other horses to get you there).

Reider? I'm not sure which camp he fits into between A) regular season performers to get us over the hump, or B) guys who lack consistency, but can amp it up in big games. Does he fit in either? I don't think so.

Kassian? Meh... I see a guy who can rally the troops occasionally with a big hit and a timely goal. The guys seem to feed on his energy. The problem is he's not that player most nights... so in that sense he's part of the problem.

I'd much rather have Kassian than Lucic, but given we're stuck with one of them, the other becomes somewhat redundant.

As for Reider... flush him. An energy skater/utility guy with questionable finish can be be had much younger and cheaper (and who knows, perhaps still possessing some upside).

 

[Drivesaitl]

Kassian is 5th in team goals up front, something this team lacks. Reider has zero and as mentioned numerous times started going downhill last year. Many people that watched him said he wasn't a NHLer last year in LA and this is showing up yet again. It might just be that Reider is nothing more than a 4th liner/pk with no offensive upside.

Where were the Kassian goals when it even mattered. They were occurring, his own goal light flashing. The player had 3 pts in the first 36GP. All your doing is looking at the latest results. He was complete garbage for most of the season. Now he's bagging some pts in garbage time in the season when it doesn't even matter. Playing with McDrai.

I watched Rieder in LA last season and he was fine scoring 4 in 20 games there. Where is this nonsense that Rieder was bad last season coming from?

This isn't even about the player. I find it incredible that the fanbase is as likely to push players out on the basis of one season, an injured season at that.

The Oilers haven't been serviced well by looking at short term results in performance, and whenever they do that, and get rid of a player on that basis it bites them. So its interesting that so many in the fanbase do the same thing. Its this kind of thinking that results in the continual turnstile of players in here and the club taking flyers on almost any kind of player.

If Zach played an honest game and looked after his own zone at all I would have all kinds of time for him. But critically he doesn't do that. He's one of the worst OZone players on this club. Which from a Vet player is unacceptable.

 

[Arpeggio]

The Oilers can't afford to have a guy play 82 games at forward and score 0 goals. I'd take Rieder back at a million, but I certainly wouldn't qualify him and he would have to earn his spot in training camp.

Kassian is a good player when playing with the right linemates. Dump him on a fourth line with no skill players and he's not going to produce, put him with some guys who can play in the offensive end and he's a good 3-4 liner.

 

[oXo Cube]

Arguments like "Rieder hasn't scored once" is how you turn Ryan Strome into Ryan Spooner.

Arguments like "Kassian has been good over the last month" is how you end up signing forgettable 4th liners to 3 year contracts with an AAV at almost 2 million dollars.

Sample sizes people.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Arguments like "Rieder hasn't scored once" is how you turn Ryan Strome into Ryan Spooner.

Arguments like "Kassian has been good over the last month" is how you end up signing forgettable 4th liners to 3 year contracts with an AAV at almost 2 million dollars.

Sample sizes people.

Rieder isn't going to turn into anything at all. If he was worth even a 7th rounder, he would have been gone at the deadline. Full seasons are unforgiveable, Rieder wont' be qualified and his money will be better spent elsewhere. He hasn't been worth a nickel this year. "He isn't a liability" isn't enough to be in the NHL. Yes, Kassian has been bad for most of this season, but we know what we have with him. A fast, skilled, big bodied player who isn't the most intelligent out there and can go through long stretches of being invisible and useless. When he is on though, he is valuable. I'm not sold that Reider has been this year. He's been better than bad players who probably shouldn't be in the NHL. He certainly hasn't been NHL caliber.

 

[guymez]

Might have been the best game Kassian has played this season. He was a force against the Sabres tonight.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Kass was the reason in the first place that the Sabres had a 3-1 lead on a disgusting missed shot that put his entire line out of the play and giving the Sabres a 3 on 1 break.

Nice that he gets the goal back but he also made the worst play of any Oiler forward tonight.

Such is the risk/reward with Kass and the reason his GA is astronomically high this season.