Zach Hyman A.K.A Babcock's Son Appreciation Thread

Liminality

Registered User
Oct 22, 2008
13,366
4,013
well, sure, i can look around the league and see that no other team has a player like Hyman often getting more ice time than the likes of tavares, matthews, and marner.
Marner 19:43 toi/gp
Tavares 19:12 toi/gp
Hyman 17:39 toi/gp

??

Just because he's getting a ton of ice time at the moment cause of injuries doesn't mean he's going to lead them in ice time the entire season.
 

Mr Hockey

Toronto
May 11, 2017
11,156
3,662
Maybe one of these days you'll actually take the time to familiarize yourself with how other coaches distribute the minutes when special teams minutes get taken into account.

ok, inform me of how Babcock should have distributed his minutes, we will use last nights game, since you guys are bothered about his player management.

RkPlayerTOI
1Nikita Zaitsev23:45
2Morgan Rielly23:24
3Jake Gardiner22:17
4Zach Hyman21:24
5Ron Hainsey21:20
6Mitch Marner20:27
7John Tavares19:11
8Travis Dermott17:57
9Kasperi Kapanen17:35
10Nazem Kadri17:07
11Connor Brown16:05
12Patrick Marleau15:35
13Par Lindholm13:07
14Andreas Johnsson11:37
15Igor Ozhiganov9:48
16Tyler Ennis8:31
17Josh Leivo7:52
18Frederik Gauthier6:58
TOTAL
[THEAD] [/THEAD]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

leafs had 3 PK and 1 PP

ice time from the game above from hockey refrence com
 
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IPS

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
15,767
25,336
Pittsburgh has their own version of Hyman in Carl Hagelin. He plays largely the same role, plays tons of PK time, and he's the forechecker/disruptor for Malkin/Kessel.

Sometimes the Penguins get swamped with penalties and Hagelin's gotta play more. In order to keep his best players playing adequate time, Sullivan will stack lines in situations such as right after the PK, offensive zone starts with an exhausted opposing group, trying to tie the game up in the last minute, etc etc... The thing is, PK time takes away from ES time. When this happens, your best ES players will have their overall ice-time reduced. Sullivan knows the importance of having his best guys play their minutes, so he will do simple adjustments in game to make sure his guys get their ice-time. You'll NEVER see Hagelin lead the Penguins in ice-time, Sullivan understands how stupid that is.

Babcock deviates from all of the above, which results in incredibly stupid things like Komarov and Hyman leading forwards in ice-time. His ice-time management will result in less minutes for his best players and more minutes for his plugs. This is literally what he gets criticized for every day. This is exuding indefensible stupid shit like Hyman playing more PP time than Marner. Never under any circumstances should you take away PP time from your best players and give them to your plugs.

Every team has their Hyman-clones. They just don't use them anywhere near the capacity that Babcock uses his. Hence where all the criticism comes from.

I don't know why I even bother going in depth on these things, the pro-Babcock types just completely glaze over his faults every time.

Like I said, if you're completely incapable of making a simple comparison of Babcock to other coaches around the league, you have no business debating any of this.
 

TheGroceryStick

Registered User
Jan 19, 2009
13,767
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Ontario Canada
I think Hyman would benefit from trickling down into our bottom 6. He's played with top dogs, now give him an assignment to find a niche on the 3rd line with Kadri.

And I like the guy
But actually starting to see how Marner and JT look exclusively for one another knowing that Hyman is apt to just take it into the corner and do the back/forth.

Our 3rd line can be used to wear them out down low and look for openings. Our top lines are there to create those openings and have the personnel to bury it.

Hyman, and Brown bring a ton of energy; more than useful on this team for PK, turning around the lineup and late game holds.
 

Liminality

Registered User
Oct 22, 2008
13,366
4,013
I think Hyman would benefit from trickling down into our bottom 6. He's played with top dogs, now give him an assignment to find a niche on the 3rd line with Kadri.

And I like the guy
But actually starting to see how Marner and JT look exclusively for one another knowing that Hyman is apt to just take it into the corner and do the back/forth.

Our 3rd line can be used to wear them out down low and look for openings. Our top lines are there to create those openings and have the personnel to bury it.

Hyman, and Brown bring a ton of energy; more than useful on this team for PK, turning around the lineup and late game holds.
I would actually love for Hyman to have success with Kadri on the 3rd line. That would mean we found a suitable upgrade on the LW and still be under this cap and not at the expense of our other guys.

_____-Tavares-Marner
Marleau-Matthews-Nylander
Hyman-Kadri-Kapanen
Johnsson-Gauthier-Brown

I just highly doubt we'd be able to find an appropriate upgrade that didn't limit ourselves in our future contracts.
 

Joey Hoser

Registered User
Jan 8, 2008
14,232
4,143
Guelph
Yes but complaining about their proper use in an internet forum is exclusively millennial territory. Its a tactic used to deflect attention from the salient points being made so they don't have to be addressed. You don't have to give any credit to what I'm saying about Hyman's place on a top line because I didn't put in a paragraph break. Now once again you don't make any mention of the many points I made in my wall of text, you're going to run away and pretend I'm an angry grampa. That's cool, I know your generation doesn't do confrontation because they aren't good at it. Its what I would expect. Go ask your councilor at school how to deal with fact shaming or something.

Maybe they agree with you about Hyman, but think your post and attitude are f***ing garbage?

I mean, that's where I'm at.

(Don't bother replying. You're on my ignore list now).
 
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frizzer1

Registered User
Oct 19, 2013
5,507
4,011
Well,it's nice to get all that hyman stuff off our collective chests...( and isn't that one of the main reasons for having a forum like this) but Babcock will never drop Hyman down the lineup................
 

Mr Hockey

Toronto
May 11, 2017
11,156
3,662
Pittsburgh has their own version of Hyman in Carl Hagelin. He plays largely the same role, plays tons of PK time, and he's the forechecker/disruptor for Malkin/Kessel.

Sometimes the Penguins get swamped with penalties and Hagelin's gotta play more. In order to keep his best players playing adequate time, Sullivan will stack lines in situations such as right after the PK, offensive zone starts with an exhausted opposing group, trying to tie the game up in the last minute, etc etc... The thing is, PK time takes away from ES time. When this happens, your best ES players will have their overall ice-time reduced. Sullivan knows the importance of having his best guys play their minutes, so he will do simple adjustments in game to make sure his guys get their ice-time. You'll NEVER see Hagelin lead the Penguins in ice-time, Sullivan understands how stupid that is.

Babcock deviates from all of the above, which results in incredibly stupid things like Komarov and Hyman leading forwards in ice-time. His ice-time management will result in less minutes for his best players and more minutes for his plugs. This is literally what he gets criticized for every day. This is exuding indefensible stupid **** like Hyman playing more PP time than Marner. Never under any circumstances should you take away PP time from your best players and give them to your plugs.

Every team has their Hyman-clones. They just don't use them anywhere near the capacity that Babcock uses his. Hence where all the criticism comes from.

I don't know why I even bother going in depth on these things, the pro-Babcock types just completely glaze over his faults every time.

Like I said, if you're completely incapable of making a simple comparison of Babcock to other coaches around the league, you have no business debating any of this.

Babcock does put out Tavares/Marner/Matthews in those o'zone situations and potential offensive situations, i often hear Hughson/simpson point it out during the games, he discusses it, pay attention dude lol


2018-19

IceIce
RkPlayerTOIATOI
1Mitch Marner29619:43
2John Tavares28819:12
[THEAD] [/THEAD]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
IceIce
RkPlayerTOIATOI
1Sidney Crosby26320:15
2Evgeni Malkin24118:31
[THEAD] [/THEAD]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Marner/Tavares always play more even strength minutes than Hyman, because Babs gives them extra time you talk about above. They are being played in offensive situations without Hyman at even strength :)

Even
RkPlayerPosShiftGPTOI
5Mitch MarnerRW0:441516:11
6John TavaresC0:411516:01
10Zach HymanLW0:371514:32
[THEAD] [/THEAD]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

hockey reference stats...
 
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saltming

Fan Addict
Oct 6, 2015
19,052
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Other
If Hyman is so unbelievably valuable and the key to generating offense, shouldn't he be with Gauthier? Isn't there enough talent on the Tavares line already and Hyman can add his elite magic skill and truly balance the attack on the 4th line?
Babcock logic doesn't compute.
The word we use to describe Hyman is complimentary. Not driver. You and others cant seem to understand the difference.
 

FlareKnight

Registered User
Jun 26, 2006
19,822
1,707
Alberta
I'll try to stick to the idea of an appreciation thread for a bit. I don't really have any issues with how Hyman has been playing on his new line this season. He's a solid complementary player to the line. I think each guy on that line understands their role and can work off each other. Hyman isn't going to score a ton and yeah I wish he had great playmaking talents. But he does pick up some points and helps lead to production.

I think he's in a good spot for now.
 

White Shadow

Registered User
Jan 7, 2016
2,477
598
If you watch Marner and JT essentially only pass to eachother. Same thing Nylander and Matthews pulled last year.

But man he tries in the corners.

In the past we had tough players like Tucker, Clark, Roberts etc we loved because they actually had offensive talent to go along with their fearless play and work ethic.

Hyman is nowhere close to in the same stratosphere as players like that. He's an overglorified 3rd liner.
We also didn't have a salary cap back then
 

White Shadow

Registered User
Jan 7, 2016
2,477
598
your not using anything other than a vivid imagination to spew endless crap

but please elaborate on the sample size you're using that leads you to say this current group of 3rd/4th liners are going to be productive as a unit considering there is no sample size of there success of any kind to base your opinion on
The one says our current second line becomes our 3rd line once Matthews and Nylander come back. The one that says we are the only team in the league with 3 centers who had 30 or more goals last season.
 

hotpaws

Registered User
Nov 21, 2009
21,749
6,349
The one says our current second line becomes our 3rd line once Matthews and Nylander come back. The one that says we are the only team in the league with 3 centers who had 30 or more goals last season.
we've already seen our current 2nd line as our 3rd line as well as Kap in the bottom 6 when Ennis was with AM and our bottom 6 didn't produce

so i'll ask you again , what sample size are you using to base your opinion the bottom 6 will produce when AM comes back ?
 

Big Cactus

Gud Pro
Apr 9, 2018
874
1,108
Toronto
I would actually love for Hyman to have success with Kadri on the 3rd line. That would mean we found a suitable upgrade on the LW and still be under this cap and not at the expense of our other guys.

_____-Tavares-Marner
Marleau-Matthews-Nylander
Hyman-Kadri-Kapanen
Johnsson-Gauthier-Brown

I just highly doubt we'd be able to find an appropriate upgrade that didn't limit ourselves in our future contracts.

Rick Nash 1 year
 
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hector morrison

Registered User
Apr 1, 2018
4,792
1,998
Says the guy who doesn't know photographic evidence is actually a thing...
Wow ,this whole 'Anti -Hyman' thing is really getting to you and some others,isn't it? ...You should take a break,get a new worthwhile interest maybe! There really is no denying that he is the least talented player on the team...bar none! Your lack of hockey sense is very evident! So, I won't be wasting any of my future reading or responding to your lame posts! Stay in the shadows!
 

hotpaws

Registered User
Nov 21, 2009
21,749
6,349
Thanks for again proving my point.
If your argument needs you to continually miss quote people perhaps you should reevaluate your self.
no one's misquoting you

you endlessly said for 2 f***ing yrs Hyman could not be taken off AM's line because we had no one who could replace him

so why the f*** are you now lying ? do you not find your Hyman love schtick funny anymore now that AM's production without him makes you look like a fool ?
 

saltming

Fan Addict
Oct 6, 2015
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Other
no one's misquoting you

you endlessly said for 2 ****ing yrs Hyman could not be taken off AM's line because we had no one who could replace him

so why the **** are you now lying ? do you not find your Hyman love schtick funny anymore now that AM's production without him makes you look like a fool ?
Find it and post it then.
Put up or shut up
 

hotpaws

Registered User
Nov 21, 2009
21,749
6,349
Find it and post it then.
Put up or shut up
feb 21/18
My position on hyman has also always been that atm we don't have someone on the organization that can do what he does at his level. (I know you say we will never know because he's never left Matthews side) but Brown has spent time with Matthews and was not as effective as Hyman is there.
Maybe one day we will get our Tkachuk to replace Hyman but for now he is doing fine there​
 

saltming

Fan Addict
Oct 6, 2015
19,052
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Other
feb 21/18
My position on hyman has also always been that atm we don't have someone on the organization that can do what he does at his level. (I know you say we will never know because he's never left Matthews side) but Brown has spent time with Matthews and was not as effective as Hyman is there.
Maybe one day we will get our Tkachuk to replace Hyman but for now he is doing fine there
Yup. That does not say he is irreplaceable.
Do you understand what that word means?
 

hotpaws

Registered User
Nov 21, 2009
21,749
6,349
Yup. That does not say he is irreplaceable.
Do you understand what that word means?
wow look at you trying to split hairs , lol

maybe you should just admit you've been trolling for over 2 yrs and move on
 

hotpaws

Registered User
Nov 21, 2009
21,749
6,349
Yes please move on since you have little comprehension of the english language.
yup such a huge difference between saying we don't have anyone who can replace him and him being irreplaceable , lol

especially since everyone and anyone (Ennis) can replace him and Mathews still produced

but you go on and keep digging the hole deeper since who could get tired of reading you post how "there's no way anyone could know if Tavares/Marner could produce without Hyman on there line" just like you went on for 2 years with Mathews/Nylander and Hyman
 
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