Speculation: Yzerman's strategy

[lhsgolf19]

This is what I've been on about for the last 3 months.
What Larkin does is make us a 17-22nd team. For 3-4-5 years - unless we luck into some stud at 12th overall.
When we need to be bottom 5 to get that elite, franchise-changing talent.

As good as Raymond is - he's not that.

It's the same reason why I understood Chiarot and Copp signings - but thought Kubalik and Perron were overkill.

And honestly, I think, by the sounds of it, he's going to load up in UFA.

I'm not sure I buy the Yzerplan at all.

Shocker there lol

 

[MBH]

Shocker there lol

Look bro - Yzerman is locking himself into 18th place hell.
Listen to today's press conference and tell me how he will rise. He doesn't seem to have the foggiest idea.
Keep trading UFAs for picks (later firsts)
Keep signing UFAs in the offseason to try to get better.
Maybe stumble into Hussos and Walmans via trade.

 

[Henkka]

Is Fabbro good? I can’t really watch NSH these days. Feel like that’s a reasonably affordable add we could maybe make at RHD, but his production this year is pretty uninspiring.

He regressed bad for some reason. Carrier is looking better etc.

 

[jaster]

I'm not sure I buy the Yzerplan at all.

 

[StargateSG1]

This is what I've been on about for the last 3 months.
What Larkin does is make us a 17-22nd team. For 3-4-5 years - unless we luck into some stud at 12th overall.
When we need to be bottom 5 to get that elite, franchise-changing talent.

As good as Raymond is - he's not that.

It's the same reason why I understood Chiarot and Copp signings - but thought Kubalik and Perron were overkill.

And honestly, I think, by the sounds of it, he's going to load up in UFA.

I'm not sure I buy the Yzerplan at all.

The guy in charge of the plan tells you what the plan is, but you are not buying the plan?
I am sure he is devastated to hear that.

 

[jaster]

Look bro - Yzerman is locking himself into 18th place hell.
Listen to today's press conference and tell me how he's going to rise. He doesn't seem to have the foggiest idea.
Keep trading UFAs for picks (later firsts)
Keep signing UFAs in the offseason to try to get better.
Maybe stumble into Hussos and Walmans via trade.

If you listen to Yzerman and come away thinking he doesn't have the foggiest idea of how to build a winner, it's perhaps time to reflect on just who, exactly, in your life, what person you may know, someone you hear from often, kinda all the time..... which person it is who "doesn't have the foggiest idea."

 

[MBH]

The guy in charge of the plan tells you what the plan is, but you are not buying the plan?
I am sure he is devastated to hear that.

I don't give a f*** whether he cares if I believe him.

I give a f*** if he sounds like he believes himself.


Why don't you tell me your understanding of the plan after hearing his presser?

Was it the part where Yzerman talked about the Bruins unicorn? Getting Pasta in the late first and Marchand and Bergeron even later?

 

[BSHH]

(...)
Why don't you tell me your understanding of the plan after hearing his presser?

Was it the part where Yzerman talked about the Bruins unicorn? Getting Pasta in the late first and Marchand and Bergeron even later?

It seems to me that he explains why the Red Wings have to retool. What Boston accomplished shows that a team does not necessarily draft at #1 for years to find good players. Yzerman pointed out that superstars might also be drafted with the picks he acquired by trading Bertuzzi and Hronek.

Gruß,
BSHH

 

[StargateSG1]

I don't give a f*** whether he cares if I believe him.

I give a f*** if he sounds like he believes himself.


Why don't you tell me your understanding of the plan after hearing his presser?

Was it the part where Yzerman talked about the Bruins unicorn? Getting Pasta in the late first and Marchand and Bergeron even later?

No , the part where he clearly states he is gonna stick with draft and develop and the part where he says you can't build a contender via UFAs, cause no stars ever make it there.

 

[TheOctopusKid]

When we need to be bottom 5 to get that elite, franchise-changing talent.

I want to better understand this - I agree your best chance to land a transformative talent is in the Top 5, and outside of luck and a number of external events that all need to coincide in timing, free agency, need etc. it’s one of the surer bets.

Two points of clarification:

Do you think we need a elite/tranformational/generational talent To win the Cup? Or just be competitive (conference finals)?

Out of the current NHL players, where’s your cut off in terms of elite Top 5, whatever colloquialism - what’s the bare min player you would consider to be this franchise talent?

 

[ShanahanMan]

Look bro - Yzerman is locking himself into 18th place hell.
Listen to today's press conference and tell me how he will rise. He doesn't seem to have the foggiest idea.
Keep trading UFAs for picks (later firsts)
Keep signing UFAs in the offseason to try to get better.
Maybe stumble into Hussos and Walmans via trade.

I agree, the FA signings (At least some of them) were a head scratcher. We should be trying to unload just about everyone for more picks and build around the players under 25.

 

[norrisnick]

I agree, the FA signings (At least some of them) were a head scratcher. We should be trying to unload just about everyone for more picks and build around the players under 25.

There is a cap floor and you need to field a full roster.

 

[MBH]

I want to better understand this - I agree your best chance to land a transformative talent is in the Top 5, and outside of luck and a number of external events that all need to coincide in timing, free agency, need etc. it’s one of the surer bets.

Two points of clarification:

Do you think we need a elite/tranformational/generational talent To win the Cup? Or just be competitive (conference finals)?

Out of the current NHL players, where’s your cut off in terms of elite Top 5, whatever colloquialism - what’s the bare min player you would consider to be this franchise talent?

Edmonton and other teams have shown us that transformational players don't guarantee you a cup.
But they do make you a contender - with competent management.


I don't think Detroit has a single guy who you can reasonable expect to be one of those types.
On defense, maybe Seider could be one.

But otherwise, we're down quite a bit.

You can draft good and even very good NHLers and still f*** it up. See Columbus with PLD, Werenski, Jones, Jenner, Gavrikov, etc.

But if you manage well, a truly transformational player - like a Jack Hughes or Cale Makar - should be enough to build around.

 

[Roy S]

I thought last offseason was Yzerman's worst as a GM, but I loved what we did at the deadline. We are nowhere close to contending, and he correctly sold off assets. He also sees that the window is when Seider, Raymond, Kasper, Edvinsson, etc. hit their primes. It kind of looked like last summer he might have been toying with keeping all of Vrana, Hronek and Bertuzzi long term and signing too many of those guys long term wouldn't have worked with Seider and others window of contention. I wish he had sold off Vrana and Bert last off season, but I'm glad he course corrected and then sold Hronek at his peak value.

The big thing this offseason is to not repeat the Copp and Chiarot signings. They don't need anymore middle of the lineup signings on long term deals. I think Perron-type deals are fine or go big or go home deals with a big trade for a star. But, we don't need anymore Chiarot and Copp-type contracts;. If anything, I'd love nothing more than for Chiarot to be gone this offseason, assuming we are serious about competing.

 

[MBH]

No , the part where he clearly states he is gonna stick with draft and develop and the part where he says you can't build a contender via UFAs, cause no stars ever make it there.

He said he was going to rebuild through the draft - but that it was a daunting task.
He said he'd gladly trade his picks for proven players.
And while he said you can't build through UFA, he said he did plan to use UFA to improve the team next year.

 

[Henkka]

But, we don't need anymore Chiarot and Copp-type contracts;. If anything, I'd love nothing more than for Chiarot to be gone this offseason, assuming we are serious about competing.

Chiarot never goes on any off-season. He will be deadline deal like basicly all other Yzerman-deals, out from the organization. And we have to wait for another year to burn away from the term.

 

[StargateSG1]

He said he was going to rebuild through the draft - but that it was a daunting task.
He said he'd gladly trade his picks for proven players.
And while he said you can't build through UFA, he said he did plan to use UFA to improve the team next year.

Of course it's a daunting task, but there is no other way.
He said Sens and Sabres are ahead cause they did it for way longer and drafted higher

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

Yzerman basically did exactly what I would’ve done. I haven’t liked Hronek for years and have been waiting for him to be gone. This year it stings a bit because he was actually putting it together but the last 20 games he’s shown he’s still inept defensively and those ottawa games were atrocious. Bert wasn’t coming back, we got a first which is perfect. I expect you see a trade up at the draft this year, either with our seconds into the first or high up into the top 10. I bet we use the first we got from Boston in a trade to acquire young talent. You could see something like Boston’s first, zadina and a prospect for a young RHD or a goal scoring winger.

I’m expecting this will be the last significant draft year for the rebuild, we will load up this year and what we have left will be used to acquire pieces to fit around the group like with what ottawa did. Personally I think we have the capital to go after picks 2-4 now if we wanted. 5 first rounders in the next 3 years and prospects we can sell off along with young guys to add. Do I think there’s a scenario where we trade let’s say 10, 14 + other high picks and prospects for 3rd overall to draft Leo Carlson? Yes I do.

 

[haulinbass]

I love how we avoided a top 5 draft pick in a great draft for absolutely no purpose. A draft where you could still lose the lotto and have a chance at a highly promising elite talent.

There was a handful of us trying to explain how you can't just go to UFA and sign underwhelming players and win in this league. Should have committed to drafting high from the start. The only players that returned anything for us are players who we already had and could have traded just the same.

This season could have landed us a guy like Fantilli. Now all we can do is cross our fingers that whoever we select at 8-10 becomes an elite player (good luck with that). Would feel a lot better about this season come draft day at 4-5 overall.

 

[haulinbass]

Yzerman basically did exactly what I would’ve done. I haven’t liked Hronek for years and have been waiting for him to be gone. This year it stings a bit because he was actually putting it together but the last 20 games he’s shown he’s still inept defensively and those ottawa games were atrocious. Bert wasn’t coming back, we got a first which is perfect. I expect you see a trade up at the draft this year, either with our seconds into the first or high up into the top 10. I bet we use the first we got from Boston in a trade to acquire young talent. You could see something like Boston’s first, zadina and a prospect for a young RHD or a goal scoring winger.

I’m expecting this will be the last significant draft year for the rebuild, we will load up this year and what we have left will be used to acquire pieces to fit around the group like with what ottawa did. Personally I think we have the capital to go after picks 2-4 now if we wanted. 5 first rounders in the next 3 years and prospects we can sell off along with young guys to add. Do I think there’s a scenario where we trade let’s say 10, 14 + other high picks and prospects for 3rd overall to draft Leo Carlson? Yes I do.

Nobody is going to take a trade like that. Not in a year where there are projected elite centers at 3-4 overall. Teams don't give that up. Those are the types of players you build teams around and make your tank worthwhile. The entire point of being bad is to hope you land a pick in a draft where a guy like him or Fantilli are on the board.

You would be looking at our 1st and a guy like Edvinsson to aquire a 3 overall for a projected 1C. That's reality, maybe they give you a 2nd back in the deal.

 

[JohanFranzenstein]

Does Stevie try to move up this draft? Does anybody bite? Would you guys consider moving our first rounders (assuming they're both between 8-16 overall) to get to the top 5?

 

[Ulysses31]

I love how we avoided a top 5 draft pick in a great draft for absolutely no purpose. A draft where you could still lose the lotto and have a chance at a highly promising elite talent.

There was a handful of us trying to explain how you can't just go to UFA and sign underwhelming players and win in this league. Should have committed to drafting high from the start. The only players that returned anything for us are players who we already had and could have traded just the same.

This season could have landed us a guy like Fantilli. Now all we can do is cross our fingers that whoever we select at 8-10 becomes an elite player (good luck with that). Would feel a lot better about this season come draft day at 4-5 overall.

Imo thats only half the story. On one hand agree, would have done another year of "tanking" if i was gm given the 2023 draft talent, but sooner or later have to build a winning culture and think DRW have done a great job of doing that this year

 

[datsyukfan]

He needs to use some of these picks to go get:

A) top line C
B) top line elite winger
C) a top 2 RH shot d-man

I would prefer A/B as I think that’s more our need with the great prospects we have coming on the back end. The top line C or elite winger need to be similar age to Larkin or younger

 

[TheOctopusKid]

Edmonton and other teams have shown us that transformational players don't guarantee you a cup.
But they do make you a contender - with competent management.


I don't think Detroit has a single guy who you can reasonable expect to be one of those types.
On defense, maybe Seider could be one.

But otherwise, we're down quite a bit.

You can draft good and even very good NHLers and still f*** it up. See Columbus with PLD, Werenski, Jones, Jenner, Gavrikov, etc.

But if you manage well, a truly transformational player - like a Jack Hughes or Cale Makar - should be enough to build around.

I'm going to assume that being a...Top 8'ish team in the league would constitute success in the case of this exercise. When I think of..."elite" players, I do agree that the surest way to get them is to pull them from the top of the draft, but there is no guarantee that in any given year that their will be any "This guy is a Top 10 in his position" kind of guy. Nail Yakupov, I'm looking in your general direction.

All of that is to say, the idea that we couldn't have a very good, Top 8 team built around a very deep team, not necessarily a star driven one (Crosby/Malkin, McKinnon/Makar, Kopitar/Doughney, etc. etc.). I would argue that our team could very much end up like a...STL, where you end up spreading the responsibility across multiple lines and not on the shoulders of a few stars.

They did have a magical peak breakout year from RoR that year - but he wasn't exactly this 100 pt monster who led the league, but was slightly under a PPG run, otherwise that team was really build on the back of a lot of "good" players, not necessarily elite ones. Similarly I can think of a number of teams post Dead Puck Era that were Conf. finalists at least.

Having a peak Larkin/Seider really THAT much off from RoR/Pietrangelo + a deep supporting cast (ironically that included Sunny, Fabbri and Perron)

All that's to say, it's not impossible to be successful and not be oozing with elite players, there are teams that find a way to get it done regardless and aren't necessarily relegated to mediocre hell for all of eternity.

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

Nobody is going to take a trade like that. Not in a year where there are projected elite centers at 3-4 overall. Teams don't give that up. Those are the types of players you build teams around and make your tank worthwhile. The entire point of being bad is to hope you land a pick in a draft where a guy like him or Fantilli are on the board.

You would be looking at our 1st and a guy like Edvinsson to aquire a 3 overall for a projected 1C. That's reality, maybe they give you a 2nd back in the

Nobody is going to take a trade like that. Not in a year where there are projected elite centers at 3-4 overall. Teams don't give that up. Those are the types of players you build teams around and make your tank worthwhile. The entire point of being bad is to hope you land a pick in a draft where a guy like him or Fantilli are on the board.

You would be looking at our 1st and a guy like Edvinsson to aquire a 3 overall for a projected 1C. That's reality, maybe they give you a 2nd back in

Nobody is going to take a trade like that. Not in a year where there are projected elite centers at 3-4 overall. Teams don't give that up. Those are the types of players you build teams around and make your tank worthwhile. The entire point of being bad is to hope you land a pick in a draft where a guy like him or Fantilli are on the board.

You would be looking at our 1st and a guy like Edvinsson to aquire a 3 overall for a projected 1C. That's reality, maybe they give you a 2nd back in the deal.

you could get a 1c at 10 this draft is so deep. I think you’re overrating how much it would cost to move up. We have 5 first rounders the next 3 years, we could sell a ton of high quality picks and prospects if we wanted.