You're the GM and Coach
- Thread starter TatarTangle
- Start date
One thing you also have to understand is that Weiss has a NMC so good luck on moving him. I wouldn't mind Thorton as a #2c but lets be honest we aren't giving up 1 of Mantha or Nyquist. And at the absolute least he would cost that + this years first rounder.
Sharp trade? As in Patrick Sharp? As in the guy who everyone in the hockey world thought of as a grinding supplementary scorer who, in favorable circumstances, might have the career of a guy like Shawn Bates?Interesting addition.
Anyways, the difference for most of these trades is that there was some measure of external influence that precipitated the move: trade demands (St. Louis), NTCs that limited a GMs options (Kesler), impending free agency departures (JBo), salary issues (Kessel), etc.
I agree that few trades of "star" players return what is expected but that has everything to do with external factors, which are almost always inherent in trading away big stars. I mean, if there weren't competing factors, why on earth would you move a star player? That's the big difference in a scenario that involves San Jose - they have zero reason to move Thornton unless the package coming back is all but guaranteed to make an impact on their Cup aspirations. They aren't poor. They aren't going to miss the playoffs. Thornton isn't demanding a move. He isn't on the last year of his deal. He's still highly productive.
i was under the impression teams move star players because they have/want to and not vecause some team randomely calls them up with an outrageous offer.
If SJ ever moves Thornton it will br because they want to, need to or have to and the return will not be a mantha plus nyquist.
detredWINgs
Registered User
Holy strawman. I never said any of this.
1. I said tams move star players because there are impressing external factors. How is that because some random team calls them up?
2. I never said Mantha and Nyquist. But to suggest Andersson, Weiss, and "a D prospect" would get Thornton is nowhere near comparable to the modest returns that star players have gotten. Weiss alone destroys that proposition because his value is miles into negative territory. I said Tatar, a 1st, a 3rd, and Kindl for Thornton and a 3rd, which is a comparable for the Kesler trade.
Jesus, Z4C. If you're going to debate, at least attack the points I'm arguing.
Run the Jewels
Make Detroit Great Again
23 man roster:
Pavs-Z-Mantha
Franzen-Sheahan-Jurco
Nyquist-Helm-Tatar
Abdelkader-Glendening-Andersson
Miller
Nestrasil
Waived/sat/whatevs: Cleary, Weiss
Kronwall-Ericsson
DeKeyser-Smith
Ouellet-Jensen
Lashoff
Waived/sat/whatevs: Quincey, Kindl
Howard
Mrazek
Waived/sat/whatevs: Gustavsson
Pavs-Z-Mantha
Franzen-Sheahan-Jurco
Nyquist-Helm-Tatar
Abdelkader-Glendening-Andersson
Miller
Nestrasil
Waived/sat/whatevs: Cleary, Weiss
Kronwall-Ericsson
DeKeyser-Smith
Ouellet-Jensen
Lashoff
Waived/sat/whatevs: Quincey, Kindl
Howard
Mrazek
Waived/sat/whatevs: Gustavsson
Pavs-Z-Jurco
Franzen-Weiss-Nyquist
Helm-Sheahan-Tatar
Abdelkader-Glendening-Andersson
Miller
Nestrasil
If second line starts to fail swap Sheahan and Tatar to 2nd and Franzen and Weiss to third line.
Waived / cut: Cleary
First call up would be Pukkinenn then Mantha for top 6 and bottom 6 would be Ferraro or Callahan if needed.
Kronwall-Ericsson
DeKeyser-Smith
Ouellet-Quincey Roll the QQ line.
Jensen Rotate the bottom pair as needed. Keep Quellete and Jensen fresh to get exp and KQ if needed.
First call up would be Marchenko, Sproul, Backman
Waived/cut/traded: Lashoff, Kindl
Howard
Gus
Mzarek needs around 60 starts in the AHL if we are injury free. If injuries occur call him up to play/split time with other goalie.
Gustavsson proved he is a serviceable backup and spot starter.
Franzen-Weiss-Nyquist
Helm-Sheahan-Tatar
Abdelkader-Glendening-Andersson
Miller
Nestrasil
If second line starts to fail swap Sheahan and Tatar to 2nd and Franzen and Weiss to third line.
Waived / cut: Cleary
First call up would be Pukkinenn then Mantha for top 6 and bottom 6 would be Ferraro or Callahan if needed.
Kronwall-Ericsson
DeKeyser-Smith
Ouellet-Quincey Roll the QQ line.
Jensen Rotate the bottom pair as needed. Keep Quellete and Jensen fresh to get exp and KQ if needed.
First call up would be Marchenko, Sproul, Backman
Waived/cut/traded: Lashoff, Kindl
Howard
Gus
Mzarek needs around 60 starts in the AHL if we are injury free. If injuries occur call him up to play/split time with other goalie.
Gustavsson proved he is a serviceable backup and spot starter.
Holy strawman. I never said any of this.
1. I said tams move star players because there are impressing external factors. How is that because some random team calls them up?
2. I never said Mantha and Nyquist. But to suggest Andersson, Weiss, and "a D prospect" would get Thornton is nowhere near comparable to the modest returns that star players have gotten. Weiss alone destroys that proposition because his value is miles into negative territory. I said Tatar, a 1st, a 3rd, and Kindl for Thornton and a 3rd, which is a comparable for the Kesler trade.
Jesus, Z4C. If you're going to debate, at least attack the points I'm arguing.
well I will be honest, it was pretty late when i responded and I didnt really read what you wrote so thats on me.
to be fair though, i too said their was no chance joe thronton would cost us nyquist and mantha and named off a dozen or so trades of players like jumbo joe where the return was not even close to a mntha plus a nyquist.
yes i agree that external factors influence trade value but its probably because external factors are what solely caused the the player to be avalable for trade in the first place
this is a silly debate as we're basically saying the same thing.
Wasn't sure where else to put this but:
http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comment...s-injuries-afoot-krupa-reports-nestrasils-mad
http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comment...s-injuries-afoot-krupa-reports-nestrasils-mad
Sharp trade? As in Patrick Sharp? As in the guy who everyone in the hockey world thought of as a grinding supplementary scorer who, in favorable circumstances, might have the career of a guy like Shawn Bates?
Anyways, the difference for most of these trades is that there was some measure of external influence that precipitated the move: trade demands (St. Louis), NTCs that limited a GMs options (Kesler), impending free agency departures (JBo), salary issues (Kessel), etc.
I agree that few trades of "star" players return what is expected but that has everything to do with external factors, which are almost always inherent in trading away big stars. I mean, if there weren't competing factors, why on earth would you move a star player? That's the big difference in a scenario that involves San Jose - they have zero reason to move Thornton unless the package coming back is all but guaranteed to make an impact on their Cup aspirations. They aren't poor. They aren't going to miss the playoffs. Thornton isn't demanding a move. He isn't on the last year of his deal. He's still highly productive.
The Stanley Cup is allergic to Joe Thorton. It flat out doesn't like him. That said I don't think there is any chance Detroit trades for him nor would I want them to. I do however think there will be a trade deadline deal of impact this year.
