NHL Entry Draft Your Preference for 2020-5th Overall Pick ?

[Adele Dazeem]

3-4 months?
He'll be 19 on Sept.23.
Raymond will be 19 at the end of march
Perfetti 19 end of January
Drysdale 19 beginning of April

Interesting to note Jack Quinn is also 19 Sept 19

For me there's too many question marks.

1. Can he improve his speed?
2. How will he be used within our lineup?--Do you see him supplanting L. Brown/J.Norris?
3. The disparity with his point totals vs weaker competition/stronger teams

The fact that he's almost a year past when he COULD have been selected is interesting.
Like , where would he have gone in last year's draft?

For me even the eyeball test is sorta lacking. Like if I watch tape between Rossi/Perfetti/Raymond--who appears to be the more dynamic player?

I'm not anti-Rossi....like I said earlier I think he's talented.
But for me he's in the 6-9 range.

You're entitled to your opinion but just to answer the questions you raised.

1. He isn't the fastest skater but that doesn't mean he's a bad skater. In fact I would say he's a top-10/15 skater in the draft. Also where he slightly lacks in speed, he makes up with his incredible IQ and playmaking ability.

2. He would most certainly be better than Norris or Brown. Brown has a season to prove he can stick in the NHL or he'll pretty much be an add-on to a trade. Norris will get a look this season but I wouldn't be shocked to see him split time in the AHL in the beginning. Depending on who we draft at 3; we'll have a combo of Byfield-Rossi as our 1-2 Centers (amazing depth) or Rossi-Brown/Norris/ alongside wingers such as (Tkachuk, Stutzle, Batherson, Duclair....)

3. I don't get this idea that because he scores more on weaker teams the points mean less? Obviously a good player will score more on weaker teams, because guess what they're weaker. I'd bet all top players follow a similar trend.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

3-4 months?
It's almost a year's difference. He'll be 19 on Sept.23.

For me there's too many question marks.

1. Can he improve his speed?
2. How will he be used within our lineup?--Do you see him supplanting L. Brown/J.Norris?
3. The disparity with his point totals vs weaker competition/stronger teams

The fact that he's almost a year past when he COULD have been selected is interesting.
Like , where would he have gone in last year's draft?

For me even the eyeball test is sorta lacking. Like if I watch tape between Rossi/Perfetti/Raymond--who appears to be the more dynamic player?

I'm not anti-Rossi....like I said earlier I think he's talented.
But for me he's in the 6-9 range.

I am not going into a debate about the relative strengths and weaknesses ..
1. All 18 year old prospects can improve their game and abilities in some areas and some need to do more than others in certain areas.
2. If Rossi was deployed at C on the Sens .. He would play ahead of Norris and Brown
3. There is a disparity but there is a very good explanation on that in the Rossi thread on the Prospects Board and its not as large as was made out to be. Should go find it and read it.
4. If the eyeball test is lacking well .. Not sure what to say there. Its not lacking in my eyeballs. and Dynamic is a nice word and Flashy is another nice word. Rossi plays a mature game and focuses on defense as well as offense. I like all 3 I think Rossi plays with more pace and a higher compete level . He also attacks the middle of the ice better. His straight line speed is not as bad as is being portrayed by some. His edges and his small area game is off the charts good. He has outstanding hockey IQ. He is really strong on the puck... Raymond and Perfetti are both good as well and I am not taking anything away from them but if you think Rossi is not worthy of battling these guys for shot at 4 or 5 in the draft you are clouding your judgement.

a year compared to who now. Are you building one player out of all the rest of them in the top 10.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

3-4 months?
He'll be 19 on Sept.23.
Raymond will be 19 at the end of march
Perfetti 19 end of January
Drysdale 19 beginning of April

Interesting to note Jack Quinn is also 19 Sept 19

For me there's too many question marks.

1. Can he improve his speed?
2. How will he be used within our lineup?--Do you see him supplanting L. Brown/J.Norris?
3. The disparity with his point totals vs weaker competition/stronger teams

The fact that he's almost a year past when he COULD have been selected is interesting.
Like , where would he have gone in last year's draft?

For me even the eyeball test is sorta lacking. Like if I watch tape between Rossi/Perfetti/Raymond--who appears to be the more dynamic player?

I'm not anti-Rossi....like I said earlier I think he's talented.
But for me he's in the 6-9 range.

Agreed with all this. Excellent post.

 

[DJB]

Its Drysdale or Raymond for me at 5 so I'm good with the vote

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I am not going into a debate about the relative strengths and weaknesses ..
1. All 18 year old prospects can improve their game and abilities in some areas and some need to do more than others in certain areas.
2. If Rossi was deployed at C on the Sens .. He would play ahead of Norris and Brown
3. There is a disparity but there is a very good explanation on that in the Rossi thread on the Prospects Board and its not as large as was made out to be. Should go find it and read it.
4. If the eyeball test is lacking well .. Not sure what to say there. Its not lacking in my eyeballs. and Dynamic is a nice word and Flashy is another nice word. Rossi plays a mature game and focuses on defense as well as offense. I like all 3 I think Rossi plays with more pace and a higher compete level . He also attacks the middle of the ice better. His straight line speed is not as bad as is being portrayed by some. His edges and his small area game is off the charts good. He has outstanding hockey IQ. He is really strong on the puck... Raymond and Perfetti are both good as well and I am not taking anything away from them but if you think Rossi is not worthy of battling these guys for shot at 4 or 5 in the draft you are clouding your judgement.

a year compared to who now. Are you building one player out of all the rest of them in the top 10.

Byfield is almost a full year younger than Lafreniere.
Byfield put up very comparable numbers and in some cases better numbers than Lafrenniere.
Lafreniere plays against some very weak teams in the the Q .. and pads his scoring.
Byfield can skate way faster than Lafreniere... Not even close
Byfield is also quite a bit bigger

Should we pick Byfield 1OA?

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

Byfield is almost a full year younger than Lafreniere.
Byfield put up very comparable numbers and in some cases better numbers than Lafrenniere.
Lafreniere plays against some very weak teams in the the Q .. and pads his scoring.
Byfield can skate way faster than Lafreniere... Not even close
Byfield is also quite a bit bigger

Should we pick Byfield 1OA?

There is a legitimate argument for that, yes. But it's not going to happen.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

There is a legitimate argument for that, yes. But it's not going to happen.

Its not going to happen because its not a good way to evaluate a prospect. Lafreniere just happens to be the best player regardless of being smaller, and slower, and having played some weaker teams ... see

 

[JimmySpaetzle]

I think we should take Laf at 5 personally

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

Its not going to happen because its not a good way to evaluate a prospect. Lafreniere just happens to be the best player regardless of being smaller, and slower, and having played some weaker teams ... see

Age, competition, skating, size are all factors. To suggest otherwise is foolish.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Age, competition, skating, size are all factors. To suggest otherwise is foolish.

I did not say they were not factors .. But there are more important factors and thats why Laf is #1. They are excellent factors for arguing points on HF though.

Another example... of the importance of those factors

Look at Elias Petersson in his draft year.
Small and fragile almost
Late Birthday . A year older than your boy Formenton
Slower than Formenton
Smaller than Formenton...
I think there must be something more important in evaluating players.

 

[senswon]

SOA what do you perceive Raymonds weekness' to be?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

SOA what do you perceive Raymonds weekness' to be?

weakness?

He has a very sound game .. Good offensively and defensively.. I think he needs to get stronger physically and that will allow him win more puck battles to play more inside the perimeter . Not a lot of weaknesses just continued development. His season last year was hard to evaluate.

 

[senswon]

weakness?

He has a very sound game .. Good offensively and defensively.. I think he needs to get stronger physically and that will allow him win more puck battles to play more inside the perimeter . Not a lot of weaknesses just continued development. His season last year was hard to evaluate.

Fair point. I should have said question marks from your evaluations

 

[Liver King]

Raymond/Perfetti

right after Stutzle/Byfield

 

[Micklebot]

It's worth noting that Lafreniere's Byfield's and Rossi's production can be compared to their age group historically


Lafreniere put up the 42nd best pts/gp by a 17 year old in the Q all time in his 17 year old season, and the 29th best pts/gp all time in his 18 year old season. His 18 year old sits between Drouin and Brassard's for best in the last 20 years. (His 17 year old season is ahead of Nathan MacKinnon's)

Byfield put up the 18th best pts/gp by a 17 year old all time in the OHL. McDavid, Marner, Spezza, Gagner, Strome and Tavares are all guys who had more productive 17 year old seasons in the last 20 years though.

Rossi put up the 118th best pts/gp by a 17 year old all time in the OHL, but exploded to be the 12th best all time as a 18 year old. Rossi's 18 year old season falls behind Kane's, and Corey Lockes, but is ahead of some notable guys like Marner, Spezza, Hall, Tavares, and Matt Tkachuk.

The age knock against Rossi is about as valid as the one against Lafreniere; both have put up tremendous production relative to historical comparable at the same age. People who ask where he would have gone had he been drafted last year; well, had he been drafted last year we wouldn't have known about his giant leap forward in production, and he would have been about the youngest player in the draft. But, what we can do is compare his production to guys drafted last year that are still in the CHL; Cozens went 7th and is 81st all time for 18 year olds in the WHL. Krebs went 17th and is 103rd all time for 18 year olds in the WHL. McMichael went 25th and ranked 28th all time for 18 year old OHL players (TSN had him rocket up the NHL affiliated prospects list based on that performance as their 10th ranked prospect from the 2019 draft) and Tomasino went 24th and is ranked 98th all time for 18 year olds in the OHL. Pretty safe to say a hypothetical team drafting Rossi last draft would be thrilled with his production this year.

Rossi is probably one of the best defensive forwards in the top end of this draft class, so he has that going for him too.

He's also a guy that is a coaches dream; IQ off the charts and the work ethic you could only wish for.

He's not a skinny 5'9, so while size is a factor, narrowing in on solely the height gives an incomplete picture; he's probably going to be playing at around 195, maybe even 200 pds by the time he's a full time NHL player. I'd wager he'll be a heck of a lot stronger on the puck and in the corners than guys like Turris who have the height but are skinny as a rail.

As for his skating, sometimes I wonder if people are watching the same player. Guy is a very good skater. He's not a burner, but it's not something that needs improvement imo, though he probably will improve.

He might not end up playing center, but I can't see him failing to become an impact player. Even though he's not my choice at 5, he is absolutely in the conversation for 5th OA for me.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

It's worth noting that Lafreniere's Byfield's and Rossi's production can be compared to their age group historically


Lafreniere put up the 42nd best pts/gp by a 17 year old in the Q all time in his 17 year old season, and the 29th best pts/gp all time in his 18 year old season. His 18 year old sits between Drouin and Brassard's for best in the last 20 years. (His 17 year old season is ahead of Nathan MacKinnon's)

Byfield put up the 18th best pts/gp by a 17 year old all time in the OHL. McDavid, Marner, Spezza, Gagner, Strome and Tavares are all guys who had more productive 17 year old seasons in the last 20 years though.

Rossi put up the 118th best pts/gp by a 17 year old all time in the OHL, but exploded to be the 12th best all time as a 18 year old. Rossi's 18 year old season falls behind Kane's, and Corey Lockes, but is ahead of some notable guys like Marner, Spezza, Hall, Tavares, and Matt Tkachuk.

The age knock against Rossi is about as valid as the one against Lafreniere; both have put up tremendous production relative to historical comparable at the same age. People who ask where he would have gone had he been drafted last year; well, had he been drafted last year we wouldn't have known about his giant leap forward in production, and he would have been about the youngest player in the draft. But, what we can do is compare his production to guys drafted last year that are still in the CHL; Cozens went 7th and is 81st all time for 18 year olds in the WHL. Krebs went 17th and is 103rd all time for 18 year olds in the WHL. McMichael went 25th and ranked 28th all time for 18 year old OHL players (TSN had him rocket up the NHL affiliated prospects list based on that performance as their 10th ranked prospect from the 2019 draft) and Tomasino went 24th and is ranked 98th all time for 18 year olds in the OHL. Pretty safe to say a hypothetical team drafting Rossi last draft would be thrilled with his production this year.

Rossi is probably one of the best defensive forwards in the top end of this draft class, so he has that going for him too.

He's also a guy that is a coaches dream; IQ off the charts and the work ethic you could only wish for.

He's not a skinny 5'9, so while size is a factor, narrowing in on solely the height gives an incomplete picture; he's probably going to be playing at around 195, maybe even 200 pds by the time he's a full time NHL player. I'd wager he'll be a heck of a lot stronger on the puck and in the corners than guys like Turris who have the height but are skinny as a rail.

As for his skating, sometimes I wonder if people are watching the same player. Guy is a very good skater. He's not a burner, but it's not something that needs improvement imo, though he probably will improve.

He might not end up playing center, but I can't see him failing to become an impact player. Even though he's not my choice at 5, he is absolutely in the conversation for 5th OA for me.

In DY Scoring in the OHL Rossi is 2nd to only McDavid in pts/gm since 2008.
Better than Marner, Strome, Tkachuk, Hall, Tavares, Stamkos, Seguin
Its hard to just dismiss that.
In his DY-1 he is 8th since 2008 in Pts/gm... And he came over from the big ice , and had to adjust . By his admission it took him at least 6 games to get the feel.

 

[Artanis]

Anyone in that "range" as long as Dorion doesn't go off the board.

 

[Micklebot]

In DY Scoring in the OHL Rossi is 2nd to only McDavid in pts/gm since 2008.
Better than Marner, Strome, Tkachuk, Hall, Tavares, Stamkos, Seguin
Its hard to just dismiss that.

I prefer to go by 18 year old season, as it negates the "he had an extra season" narrative.

In terms of 18 year old seasons in the same time period (since 2008), he's 1st. Add a year and go back to 2007 and you have Kane ahead of him. It's not like their aren't a lot of elite prospects that played their 18 year old seasons in the OHL; Tavares, Marner, Strome, Tkachuk, Hall, Spezza, he's ahead of all of them.

 

[senswon]

I prefer to go by 18 year old season, as it negates the "he had an extra season" narrative.

In terms of 18 year old seasons in the same time period (since 2008), he's 1st. Add a year and go back to 2007 and you have Kane ahead of him. It's not like their aren't a lot of elite prospects that played their 18 year old seasons in the OHL; Tavares, Marner, Strome, Tkachuk, Hall, Spezza, he's ahead of all of them.

all of this has been interesting. Thank you

I guess my next question is, why isn't he being considered in the Byfield/Stutzle grouping if he appears to be a generational player? I say generational based on :

"terms of 18 year old seasons in the same time period (since 2008), he's 1st. Add a year and go back to 2007 and you have Kane ahead of him."

 

[BondraTime]

all of this has been interesting. Thank you

I guess my next question is, why isn't he being considered in the Byfield/Stutzle grouping if he appears to be a generational player? I say generational based on :

"terms of 18 year old seasons in the same time period (since 2008), he's 1st. Add a year and go back to 2007 and you have Kane ahead of him."

He isn't as project-able as most in he top 10, or safely so, at the very least

 

[aragorn]

SOA what do you perceive Raymonds weekness' to be?

He's small, he's soft & he's a perimeter player, but he has enough offensive ability that teams could over look his weaknesses.

I'd take Byfield 1st OA, I think he has much more potential to dominate than Laf at some future point.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Drysdale, Rossi, Perfetti, Sanderson....in any order.

Can't really comment on Lundell, Holtz or Raymond, never really paid attention to them.

And I would really love to add a couple of our 2nds to the NYI first and move into the 12-16 range and grab Quinn.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

all of this has been interesting. Thank you

I guess my next question is, why isn't he being considered in the Byfield/Stutzle grouping if he appears to be a generational player? I say generational based on :

"terms of 18 year old seasons in the same time period (since 2008), he's 1st. Add a year and go back to 2007 and you have Kane ahead of him."

He’s not generational lol. The OHL had a huge anomaly year statistically. Inflated a lot of stats artificially

 

[JungleBeat]

He's small, he's soft & he's a perimeter player, but he has enough offensive ability that teams could over look his weaknesses.

I'd take Byfield 1st OA, I think he has much more potential to dominate than Laf at some future point.

Spoken like someone who never watched Raymond play. He’s small but is definitely not a perimeter player. He’s attacks the middle frequently and is a puck hound.

 

[Boud]

It's worth noting that Lafreniere's Byfield's and Rossi's production can be compared to their age group historically


Lafreniere put up the 42nd best pts/gp by a 17 year old in the Q all time in his 17 year old season, and the 29th best pts/gp all time in his 18 year old season. His 18 year old sits between Drouin and Brassard's for best in the last 20 years. (His 17 year old season is ahead of Nathan MacKinnon's)

Byfield put up the 18th best pts/gp by a 17 year old all time in the OHL. McDavid, Marner, Spezza, Gagner, Strome and Tavares are all guys who had more productive 17 year old seasons in the last 20 years though.

Rossi put up the 118th best pts/gp by a 17 year old all time in the OHL, but exploded to be the 12th best all time as a 18 year old. Rossi's 18 year old season falls behind Kane's, and Corey Lockes, but is ahead of some notable guys like Marner, Spezza, Hall, Tavares, and Matt Tkachuk.

The age knock against Rossi is about as valid as the one against Lafreniere; both have put up tremendous production relative to historical comparable at the same age. People who ask where he would have gone had he been drafted last year; well, had he been drafted last year we wouldn't have known about his giant leap forward in production, and he would have been about the youngest player in the draft. But, what we can do is compare his production to guys drafted last year that are still in the CHL; Cozens went 7th and is 81st all time for 18 year olds in the WHL. Krebs went 17th and is 103rd all time for 18 year olds in the WHL. McMichael went 25th and ranked 28th all time for 18 year old OHL players (TSN had him rocket up the NHL affiliated prospects list based on that performance as their 10th ranked prospect from the 2019 draft) and Tomasino went 24th and is ranked 98th all time for 18 year olds in the OHL. Pretty safe to say a hypothetical team drafting Rossi last draft would be thrilled with his production this year.

Rossi is probably one of the best defensive forwards in the top end of this draft class, so he has that going for him too.

He's also a guy that is a coaches dream; IQ off the charts and the work ethic you could only wish for.

He's not a skinny 5'9, so while size is a factor, narrowing in on solely the height gives an incomplete picture; he's probably going to be playing at around 195, maybe even 200 pds by the time he's a full time NHL player. I'd wager he'll be a heck of a lot stronger on the puck and in the corners than guys like Turris who have the height but are skinny as a rail.

As for his skating, sometimes I wonder if people are watching the same player. Guy is a very good skater. He's not a burner, but it's not something that needs improvement imo, though he probably will improve.

He might not end up playing center, but I can't see him failing to become an impact player. Even though he's not my choice at 5, he is absolutely in the conversation for 5th OA for me.

Completely agreed here. Rossi will always be underrated by people who are stuck on height as a deciding factor of a player's impact in the NHL. I've been vocal on really liking Rossi and wouldn't think twice about drafting him. He plays way bigger and harder than Perfetti/Raymond and I think he's easily the best fit for us especially if LA drafts Byfield and we end up with Stutzle. It's certainly shaping up to be an interesting selection at 5 considering that group of 4-5 players available that are all in the same range where it basically just comes down to preference. As far as I can tell there isn't a clear cut savvy pick between Rossi/Perfetti/Raymond/Drysdale/Sanderson and even Holtz who I really really like.

Personally, I'm a bit skeptical with Raymond considering he spent an entire year playing 10 minutes a night and clearly had a hard time adjusting to playing against men, some nights he wasn't doing much. He had a hard time getting more opportunities compared to a guy like Holtz for example who had a bigger and bigger role as the year went on. I think it's hard to argue against Raymond probably being the hardest read at this point amongst that group as Bondra mentionned. He's very dynamic and there's a lot to like about his game, I wouldn't be mad if we took him but he wouldn't be my pick. It's nothing against him but if I can choose between 4-5 players that are all in the same range and some are more projectable than others, I probably don't take that chance with Raymond but our scouting staff will make the right call I have trust in them

I think Perfetti is a bit low with the votes in this poll probably because a lot of us anticipate that he'll be gone before and I think that had the board focus a lot more on Rossi/Raymond/Drysdale/Sanderson. if wr end up with Byfield, I think Perfetti would be an amazing catch here.

My choices for pick 5 would be :

If we draft Byfield

1- Perfetti
2- Holtz/Rossi
3- Raymond

If we draft Stutzle

1- Rossi
2- Perfetti/Holtz
4- Raymond

And I see Rossi as being a center in the NHL to be clear, I don't think he'll be a winger at all. He doesn't play like a winger and his skillset is rare and better suited at C. FWIW he plays a lot more like a real C than Byfield does. Bottom line I have Perfetti/Rossi real close, Holtz is going to be the best goal scorer in the draft easily IMO and then Raymond who has all that skill but might just take a little longer to make that transition to the NHL.