NHL Entry Draft Your Preference for 2020-5th Overall Pick ?

[Liver King]

Raymond and Batherson as our top 6 RW's is gonna be so damn good

 

[bert]

I think it's a bit unfair to frame those who don't want Quinn at 5 as not high on him. He's an excellent prospect among a strong cohort, having other guys ahead doesn't mean people aren't high on him.

As for those bullish on Rossi, we can point to his compete level, his mature style of play, his willingness to go to the tough spots on the ice, his top end of the class defensive game, his work ethic both on and off the ice, his extremely underatted skating, his elite puck skills, his great shot and release, his off the charts IQ, but the retort is always 5'9, and 18 year old season. Well, the latter point is refuted by looking at his production relative to historical 18 year old seasons; it's because of the attempts to invalidate Rossi's performance by saying his production is just the result of an extra year of development that spurs the statistical retort.

As for the low chance Rossi ends up picked by Ottawa, i tend to agree, Drysdale, Perfetti and Raymond are all strong possibilities to go ahead of him and even if you give them all even odds they'd individually only have 25% a piece, and that excludes realistic scenarios like picking Sanderson.


So why didn't Datsyuk go 1st (or even in the first round)?

Obviously it's a long shot anyone in this draft ends up as good as Datsyuk, but Datsyuk wasn't as good as Rossi is at the same age, there is a reason Rossi is ranked where he is.

The same posters dont have Quinn at the same level as Rossi as a prospect and I think thats a direct correlation to not watching them play very often. Anyone that has watched the team alot has them in the same tier.

I dont know how you can acknowledge those traits for Rossi and not look at Quinn in the same light. Quinn was on the first pk, not Rossi and plays just as physical a game as a bigger player while competing just as hard.

Ultimately does anyone know how good Datsyuk was at the same age? Was there even NHL eyes on him? You really dont know if Rossi is better as Datsyuk was such an unknown. What we do know is that Rossi is 5'8.5 and hasnt grown in quite some time. He just doesnt have the physique to dominate like Datsyuk. Maybe he is as skilled but I highly doubt it I have watched him close to 50 times the last two years he doesnt have that type out of this world elusiveness. What made Datsyuks skill so incredible was his length, he controlled the puck so well so far from his body that he made players miss.

Rossi is an incredible OHL player however I really have a hard time seeing his skillset beat NHL defenders at the next level on a consistent basis. The point is not to pick the best player right now its who is going to be the best in 5 years and his skiillset has massive limitations due to his size and skating.

Should have said Datsyukian or Datsyuk light. I see a surefire 2C in Rossi with the potential to improve. His height won't be an issue to succeed at the next level. After two seasons of sporadic viewing of the 67s - but every game I came away impressed.

Quinn has sublime hands with the ability to create his own opportunities to score - as Button puts it he is likely best goal scorer in this draft class. Rossi's been the better player - and Andre Tourigny should know a thing or two about who the best player is for the 67s. Rossi is a top-5 debate, Quinn is a 10-20 range draft pick who I would love with the NYI pick+.

I know the comment wasn't meant for me, but I am not a bullish supporter of Rossi. I just slowly gravitated towards him since April doing research on these prospects. By no means will I be disappointed with another high-end pick like Raymond or Perfetti. I will be disappointed with Quinn at #5.

Id say watch more full games then. Rossi was the better OHL player for the first half of the season, Quinn carried the team at the end but its not about the best OHL player its about the NHL. Through my many viewings and watching these two players evolve I would be very suprised if Rossi ends up the better NHL player. Quinn's game is getting better by leaps and bounds. The skating, the size and the elite level skill he shows with his length translates better to the next level. Rossi's game wasnt evolving at the same rate. Quinn just grabs your attention more than Rossi especially at the end of the season, you cant miss him in a game. Rossi goes quiet for long stretches, he is always on the score sheet but isnt pushing the play in the same way.

There are a lot more people outside Ottawa that are bullish on Rossi. Its not just HFSens posters who evidently are a lot more bullish on Raymond than Rossi. We get that you are more bullish on Quinn and have him ranked high compared to almost every source I have looked at. No issues with that .. you like the player .
I would think given the lack of evidence available on Raymond from his year last year that you would take more exception to him being ranked higher than Quinn on this board

Almost every source that is reputable has them close so I am not sure what you talking about. Button and Mackenzie have them both in the top 10. Button said Quinn, Perfetti and Rossi are pretty much interchangeable so does Brock Otten who watches more OHL hockey than anyone.

OHL full games are available on the internet if people really want to take a deep dive id reccommend watching some full games.

I am not suprised that Raymond has more votes than both Rossi or Quinn he has shown elite level play on the biggest stage and has the highest upside of the three of them. I also dont blame sens fans for liking a swede playing for Frolunda. If the sens dont get Drysdale at 5 I hope its Raymond followed closely by Perfetti.

 

[topshelf15]

Raymond and Batherson as our top 6 RW's is gonna be so damn good

The lw looks pretty decent as well....Chuk,Duke and Form....Just need that number 1 center to put it all together

 

[Liver King]

The lw looks pretty decent as well....Chuk,Duke and Form....Just need that number 1 center to put it all together

The lw looks pretty decent as well....Chuk,Duke and Form....Just need that number 1 center to put it all together

Yup.. add Byfield/Stutzle to Norris Brown White and Pinto. Good mix at C as well

 

[Micklebot]

Quotes from NHL scouts from Rossi are all over the map. To me, that's not the kind of guy you want at 5. You want a guy with less question marks.

“He is already a finished product. Have you seen him off the ice? He is done growing and he’s already
made himself as strong as he’s going to get. Great player but you are already looking at a 95% finished
product. Meanwhile Perfetti still has a baby face.” - NHL Scout, October 2019

“I can’t help but get the feeling that Rossi might be the player that has a great package for the OHL
but might be the guy taken in the top 10 that busts. He’s been very ordinary in some of my viewings
unless he was playing teams like Kingston.who have one or two OHL calibre defenseman.” - NHL
Scout, January 2020

“He’s so competitive and that what I like about him so much. I think he’ll play through his
weaknesses and find a way to play down the middle too.” - NHL Scout, January 2020

“He’s a great player. I know you like Perfetti but I’ll take my chances on Rossi.” - NHL Scout,
January 2020

“He’s a pro. He works hard all day on getting better. This kid is all business.” - NHL Scout, February
2020

“He’s going to make all the scouts who have Perfetti ranked ahead of him regret it.” - NHL Scout,
March 2020

“He’s smart, competitive and skilled. He destroyed the OHL this season. I’d love to have a team full of
players like him.” - NHL Scout, March 2020

“I think too many people are overrating Rossi and other guys based solely on their huge numbers this
year. Some of those stats guys might want to take a peek at the goalies in the OHL. right now. They
are messing up the OHL record books.” - NHL Scout, March 2020

“How many guys with his size and skating combination are playing centre in the NHL? Not sure he can
be effective on the wing so I have him where I’d never get him.” - NHL Scout, March 2020

“He’s small but strong. He’ll be ok and I think he can play centre.” - NHL Scout, March 2020

“Really good interview, I’d rate it as one of my best this year” - NHL Scout, April 2020

“Arguably the best defensive forward in the draft”– HP Scout Jérôme Bérubé

“He doesn’t have elite speed but I’m not as worried about that with him, his hockey sense is
excellent and physically he’s a tank and he can absorb the physical play better than most players of
his size.” – HP Scout Jérôme Bérubé

“To me he’s a great junior player. I know everyone loves him but he’ll need to be a winger in the NHL
and I agree that he’s smart but he’s not very dynamic. He’s only 5’8” and is an average skater. Put him
on North Bay and he’d be a 2nd round pick. He’s way down my list. He abused Kingston and North Bay
but was very ordinary against the good teams in the West.” - NHL Scout, May 2020

“I love Rossi. He is one of the best competitors I’ve seen in the OHL in years. This kid probably
eats pucks for breakfast off of an old shin-pad.” - NHL Scout, May 2020

“Great player. It’s so tight in this whole grouping of players.” - HP Scout, Mark Edwards

A good chunk of NHL scouts are notoriously old school when it comes to size so it's not surprising Rossi gets mixed reviews. Its the same reason why every year there is a guy with just size that goes far too high.

The NHL is seeing more and more small players excel but it's still a hurdle for smaller players to overcome. If he was a couple inches taller he'd be in the discussion for 2nd oa or maybe 1st not 5th.

 

[bert]

A good chunk of NHL scouts are notoriously old school when it comes to size so it's not surprising Rossi gets mixed reviews. Its the same reason why every year there is a guy with just size that goes far too high.

The NHL is seeing more and more small players excel but it's still a hurdle for smaller players to overcome. If he was a couple inches taller he'd be in the discussion for 2nd oa or maybe 1st not 5th.

The two biggest teams in the NHL won the cup the last two seasons. Small players dont excel the same way come playoff time its literally happening right now. The heavy hard teams are taking over.

 

[Bileur]

Rossi is a lot like Norris in that he has advanced defensive awareness, he is not a winger.

I agree that Rossi fits better at Center. I also think Byfield is a Center and that Brown would be far more effective at Center than wing. That’s why I initially suggested Norris could move as his skills would translate very well wing.

 

[Micklebot]

The same posters dont have Quinn at the same level as Rossi as a prospect and I think thats a direct correlation to not watching them play very often. Anyone that has watched the team alot has them in the same tier.

I think when your position repeatedly boils down to people with a different viewpoint must not be watching him, we're done. It's fine, you have a strong opinion on them and it's certainly a defensible position to hold, but the discusion won't really be constructive so I'm out.

Ultimately does anyone know how good Datsyuk was at the same age? Was there even NHL eyes on him? You really dont know if Rossi is better as Datsyuk was such an unknown. What we do know is that Rossi is 5'8.5 and hasnt grown in quite some time. He just doesnt have the physique to dominate like Datsyuk. Maybe he is as skilled but I highly doubt it I have watched him close to 50 times the last two years he doesnt have that type out of this world elusiveness. What made Datsyuks skill so incredible was his length, he controlled the puck so well so far from his body that he made players miss.

I guess he was such an unkown that even Russia didn't know about him despite him playing in their local league. Shame, they could have used him at the world juniors. The mythology of Datsyuk being hidden from all eyes is bonkers. Like all late picks that became hall of famers, theres some truth to it that get wildly blown out of proportion till it defies logic.

Rossi is an incredible OHL player however I really have a hard time seeing his skillset beat NHL defenders at the next level on a consistent basis. The point is not to pick the best player right now its who is going to be the best in 5 years and his skiillset has massive limitations due to his size and skating

So this i can get behind, how much further development he has left and how translatable his game is given his size are valid questions and why he lands just outside of my top 5. I think his skating underatted personally, but thats just my opinion.

 

[Micklebot]

The two biggest teams in the NHL won the cup the last two seasons. Small players dont excel the same way come playoff time its literally happening right now. The heavy hard teams are taking over.

Schwartz was a big part of Stl's win and isn't much bigger than Rossi. Eberle and Pageau are playing important roles for the NYI who are on the verge of sweeping the capitals. It's a team game, you can have more than one type of player. Nobody is suggesting we only draft small players, just that more and more small players are finding success.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

The same posters dont have Quinn at the same level as Rossi as a prospect and I think thats a direct correlation to not watching them play very often. Anyone that has watched the team alot has them in the same tier.

I dont know how you can acknowledge those traits for Rossi and not look at Quinn in the same light. Quinn was on the first pk, not Rossi and plays just as physical a game as a bigger player while competing just as hard.

Ultimately does anyone know how good Datsyuk was at the same age? Was there even NHL eyes on him? You really dont know if Rossi is better as Datsyuk was such an unknown. What we do know is that Rossi is 5'8.5 and hasnt grown in quite some time. He just doesnt have the physique to dominate like Datsyuk. Maybe he is as skilled but I highly doubt it I have watched him close to 50 times the last two years he doesnt have that type out of this world elusiveness. What made Datsyuks skill so incredible was his length, he controlled the puck so well so far from his body that he made players miss.

Rossi is an incredible OHL player however I really have a hard time seeing his skillset beat NHL defenders at the next level on a consistent basis. The point is not to pick the best player right now its who is going to be the best in 5 years and his skiillset has massive limitations due to his size and skating.


Id say watch more full games then. Rossi was the better OHL player for the first half of the season, Quinn carried the team at the end but its not about the best OHL player its about the NHL. Through my many viewings and watching these two players evolve I would be very suprised if Rossi ends up the better NHL player. Quinn's game is getting better by leaps and bounds. The skating, the size and the elite level skill he shows with his length translates better to the next level. Rossi's game wasnt evolving at the same rate. Quinn just grabs your attention more than Rossi especially at the end of the season, you cant miss him in a game. Rossi goes quiet for long stretches, he is always on the score sheet but isnt pushing the play in the same way.


Almost every source that is reputable has them close so I am not sure what you talking about. Button and Mackenzie have them both in the top 10. Button said Quinn, Perfetti and Rossi are pretty much interchangeable so does Brock Otten who watches more OHL hockey than anyone.

OHL full games are available on the internet if people really want to take a deep dive id reccommend watching some full games.

I am not suprised that Raymond has more votes than both Rossi or Quinn he has shown elite level play on the biggest stage and has the highest upside of the three of them. I also dont blame sens fans for liking a swede playing for Frolunda. If the sens dont get Drysdale at 5 I hope its Raymond followed closely by Perfetti.

Never mentioned top 10. Quinn will be in the top 10 or close to it but not ahead of Rossi .. I am sure there are a few of you that believe otherwise.
Quinn will go high because of his goal scoring. He is not even close to Rossi as a playmaker. You project Quinn to have success and Rossi not to.. That's your own speculation... I am sure 9/10 McKenzie scouts that had him between 5 and 10 are projecting him to have success.

 

[Slippy]

Sanderson isnt close to as good a prospect as Jones or Werenski were id temper your expectations.

I do think McDonough is a great comparison and if he ends up that good he would be a terrific pick at 5. I think if he is there the sens will take Drysdale, he has more upside and just as high a floor.

Some seem to disagree. Not saying I certainly see him that group, I have no idea, but this is not from some random blogger, but a coach of all three and more:

NTDP associate coach Nick Fohr oversees the defensemen, and in his nine seasons with the program has worked with several players currently competing in the NHL, including Seth Jones (Columbus Blue Jackets), Zach Werenski (Blue Jackets), Noah Hanifin (Calgary Flames) and Charlie McAvoy (Boston Bruins). He believes Sanderson ranks among that elite group.

"Sandy is right in that mix of the top three guys I've coached here, if not the top guy," Fohr said. "That's still to be determined based on how he develops and where he goes, but this is something we've been talking about since last year. Somebody asked me last season where he'd fit, and I said he's already in my top five and that was as an under-17 player."

It is a report like this that makes me feel better about the possible selection of Sanderson, but I am still not sure who I'd pick.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Schwartz was a big part of Stl's win and isn't much bigger than Rossi. Eberle and Pageau are playing important roles for the NYI who are on the verge of sweeping the capitals. It's a team game, you can have more than one type of player. Nobody is suggesting we only draft small players, just that more and more small players are finding success.

Schwartz is the best comparable I've seen for Rossi.

Both guys are very short (5'10 or 5'9) but stocky (around 190lbs) and not high-end skaters, but have elite hockey IQ and playmaking.

If Schwartz was a late birthday like Rossi and was delayed a draft and not eligible until after he put up 47P/30GP in college as a freshman, he probably would have been in top 5 consideration in 2011 like Rossi is this year.

 

[bert]

Never mentioned top 10. Quinn will be in the top 10 or close to it but not ahead of Rossi .. I am sure there are a few of you that believe otherwise.
Quinn will go high because of his goal scoring. He is not even close to Rossi as a playmaker. You project Quinn to have success and Rossi not to.. That's your own speculation... I am sure 9/10 McKenzie scouts that had him between 5 and 10 are projecting him to have success.

There is a very very very real chance Quinn gets picked ahead of Rossi. To say it wont happen is exactly what im describing in my posts. Rossi is a better play maker, Quinn is a better goal scorer but both are versatile offensive players. Quinn can beat you more ways especially projecting at the next level. He was the set up guy on his line the previous year last year he was the finisher because he had to be. Any narrative that he is one dimensional is false.

Schwartz is the best comparable I've seen for Rossi.

Both guys are very short (5'10 or 5'9) but stocky (around 190lbs) and not high-end skaters, but have elite hockey IQ and playmaking.

If Schwartz was a late birthday like Rossi and was delayed a draft and not eligible until after he put up 47P/30GP in college as a freshman, he probably would have been in top 5 consideration in 2011 like Rossi is this year.

If the player the sens pick at 5 is like Jaden Schwarz a smallish 2nd line sometimes a first line winger that struggles to stay healthy ill be dissapointed.

 

[GCK]

There is a very very very real chance Quinn gets picked ahead of Rossi. To say it wont happen is exactly what im describing in my posts. Rossi is a better play maker, Quinn is a better goal scorer but both are versatile offensive players. Quinn can beat you more ways especially projecting at the next level. He was the set up guy on his line the previous year last year he was the finisher because he had to be. Any narrative that he is one dimensional is false.



If the player the sens pick at 5 is like Jaden Schwarz a smallish 2nd line sometimes a first line winger that struggles to stay healthy ill be dissapointed.

I agree with your take on Quinn. The thing people who didn’t watch a lot of 67s games this season miss is that Quinn scores in every conceivable way, shooting off the rush, beating D off the rush, one timers, garbage around the net. The only skill lacking from a scoring perspective is deflecting point shots IMO.

 

[DJB]

There is a very very very real chance Quinn gets picked ahead of Rossi. To say it wont happen is exactly what im describing in my posts. Rossi is a better play maker, Quinn is a better goal scorer but both are versatile offensive players. Quinn can beat you more ways especially projecting at the next level. He was the set up guy on his line the previous year last year he was the finisher because he had to be. Any narrative that he is one dimensional is false.



If the player the sens pick at 5 is like Jaden Schwarz a smallish 2nd line sometimes a first line winger that struggles to stay healthy ill be dissapointed.

The Sens had a ton of interest in Schwartz his draft year.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

The Sens had a ton of interest in Schwartz his draft year.

he is not a top 5 calibre pick

 

[BondraTime]

The Sens had a ton of interest in Schwartz his draft year.

The only guys they wanted at 16 were Schwartz and Forbort, traded the pick after Forbort went off the board.

They had Burmistrov above both those guys (among others obviously, but he for certain), I would imagine both were ~10 or so on our lists.

 

[bert]

The Sens had a ton of interest in Schwartz his draft year.

Id be happy with Rossi at 14th overall too.

 

[DJB]

he is not a top 5 calibre pick

Never said Schwartz was. I'm simply relaying the information I had at the time of that draft.

The Sens were going to draft Schwartz at 16 but when he went at 14 to Stl we traded the pick for Rundblad.

And Rossi > Schwartz in the draft years

 

[DJB]

The only guys they wanted at 16 were Schwartz and Forbert, traded the pick after Forbert went off the board.

They had Burmistrov above both those guys (among others obviously, but he for certain), I would imagine both were ~10 or so on our lists.

I had heard that they liked Kuznetsov as well at the time. Obviously they went in a different direction though

 

[Micklebot]

he is not a top 5 calibre pick

He'd easily go in the top 10 of a redraft.

Seguin, Hall, Stone, Tarasenko and Kuznetsov are probably the only guys who are clearly ahead of him that year.

 

[BondraTime]

He'd easily go in the top 10 of a redraft.

Seguin, Hall, Stone, Tarasenko and Kuznetsov are probably the only guys who are clearly ahead of him that year.

Klingberg and Johansen as well, IMO

 

[Micklebot]

Klingberg as well, IMO

That's fair, though I've never been as high on klingberg as others, he's definately in the conversation.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

He'd easily go in the top 10 of a redraft.

Seguin, Hall, Stone, Tarasenko and Kuznetsov are probably the only guys who are clearly ahead of him that year.

So you agreed with me.

 

[Micklebot]

So you agreed with me.

I think if a team took him 5th overall that year it would be considered a fine pick with the benefit of hindsight. Nobody could have predicted Stone being so good for example so you are left with 4 guys clearly better 2 of which who also were both taken later in the draft than him.

Basically, he turned out as good or better than any other prospect that could reasonably been considered at 5th OA that year imo. The reality is drafts aren't science so some guys will slide or rise in a redraft, Schwartz, had he been taken 5th, would not have been seen as someone who slide significantly enough to no longer be justified in going that high, in real life though he was taken 14th and rose to the point that he's in the conversation for top 5 picks from that draft, albeit on the bubble.