Value of: Your bad contract to the Habs

[paulmm3]

Sabres homies...we're not going to be good enough in the next 1 or 2 years to make it worth giving up assets to get rid of contracts. We can just wait for Bogo and Moulson to ride off into the sunset.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

So are the Habs tanking?

 

[LastWordArmy]

So are the Habs tanking?

The moment that Weber's injury was announced, that seemed the likely direction

 

[Just Linda]

Montreal seems to be in a not so great position to take on bad contracts. Yeah they have lots of cash but they also have nothing else outside of Price.

They should focus on drafting well for a bit and see what comes out of that instead of tanking and getting picks. Trevor Timmins is complete garbage at his job, until he gets the can, they aren't going to build towards anything.

Timmons does a fine job, Montreal has a good history of making late round picks into serviceable NHL players, it’s one of the best teams in the league in that regard. He has been overruled by the GM in the first round a few times and had a long stretch of not having second round picks to pick with. If the team was built solely from his drafting, it would be a contender right now. The trading and development kills the habs not their amateur scouts.

 

[Hostile Offer]

Timmons does a fine job, Montreal has a good history of making late round picks into serviceable NHL players, it’s one of the best teams in the league in that regard. He has been overruled by the GM in the first round a few times and had a long stretch of not having second round picks to pick with. If the team was built solely from his drafting, it would be a contender right now. The trading and development kills the habs not their amateur scouts.

Correct. That goddamn Louis Leblanc pick.

 

[Edgy]

The Habs drafted a ton of centres this year... and McLeod is nothing special that they don't have in their system after this draft.

He's a fine prospect, but 5 years of a cap killing contract is a long time. I also have doubts that Lucic can get back to 20 goals or 50 points. His body has been through a lot.

Cap killing contract is an over-exaggeration. He's making 6mil and the cap is rising. Drouin is making 5.5 and he's been atrocious.

McLeod can play LW, not just C, he's big and hard to knock off the puck with a decent upside. Even if we don't keep him, he can be used a as bargaining chip. We can also use depth in both positions, you never know how a pick pans out, so the more depth the better our chances.

A first round pick will come in handy as well. We need to be stockpiling first round picks and prospects. We're not going to be competitive anytime soon. By the time Lucic's contract is about to expire is about the time we might have a chance of icing a decent team.

Is it really worth it for the Habs? Not that I don't believe that Lucic could bounce back at least somewhat but that term is scary. If we're not getting something in the deal that we really like (depth pieces are not cutting it), I don't see a reason to take on a burden like that.

Do you see us competing anytime in the next 5 years with this lineup? Our prospects pool is almost devoid of NHL caliber talent thanks to Bergeving and Lefebvre.

So yeah, contract length isn't ideal but we're getting a 1st and the equivalent of a 2nd/B Prospect for a LW who'd be better than anyone not named Pacioretty on this team at that position.

We're giving Pacioretty all the excuses in the world and get into it when fans says he not a 30 goals/60 point guy after one bad season. I think the same can be said about Lucic.

 

[Hostile Offer]

Do you see us competing anytime in the next 5 years with this lineup? Our prospects pool is almost devoid of NHL caliber talent thanks to Bergeving and Lefebvre.

So yeah, contract length isn't ideal but we're getting a 1st and the equivalent of a 2nd/B Prospect for a LW who'd be better than anyone not named Pacioretty on this team at that position.

We're giving Pacioretty all the excuses in the world and get into it when fans says he not a 30 goals/60 point guy after one bad season. I think the same can be said about Lucic.

The problem is that Lucic plays a game that doesn't age well at all. Have you seen him skate lately? He can easily be projected as a pure cap dump in a short time. Pacioretty had a terrible year but his actual decline shouldn't be expected yet.

 

[LastWordArmy]

Cap killing contract is an over-exaggeration. He's making 6mil and the cap is rising. Drouin is making 5.5 and he's been atrocious.

McLeod can play LW, not just C, he's big and hard to knock off the puck with a decent upside. Even if we don't keep him, he can be used a as bargaining chip. We can also use depth in both positions, you never know how a pick pans out, so the more depth the better our chances.

A first round pick will come in handy as well. We need to be stockpiling first round picks and prospects. We're not going to be competitive anytime soon. By the time Lucic's contract is about to expire is about the time we might have a chance of icing a decent team.

Do you see us competing anytime in the next 5 years with this lineup? Our prospects pool is almost devoid of NHL caliber talent thanks to Bergeving and Lefebvre.

So yeah, contract length isn't ideal but we're getting a 1st and the equivalent of a 2nd/B Prospect for a LW who'd be better than anyone not named Pacioretty on this team at that position.

We're giving Pacioretty all the excuses in the world and get into it when fans says he not a 30 goals/60 point guy after one bad season. I think the same can be said about Lucic.

I agree that McLeod and a 1st round pick are valuable. No debate.

The cap is rising at the same time Lucic is getting older and more beat up, i don't see that contract getting better. His style is not one that sees players be effective for a long time. Plus he has a well-documented back issue. He may have been able to overcome that when he was younger, but playing his style, and with his back not in good shape, its all going to add up as the years go by.

If you think the Habs have a similarly bad contract in Drouin, i might disagree (age, 12 more points than lucic in 5 less games, learning a new position are all reasons why Drouin is a better deal), but even if you are right... that doesn't mean adding more bad long-term contracts.

I don't think that value is equal to the worth of five years of a bad contract. While a player like Lucic is still on your books, you will need extensions for guys like Kotkaniemi, Poehling, and your 2019 first round pick (plus whatever assets you acquire with Lucic) If things are going well, you won't want that cap hit on your books.

I'm more than fine with taking 1 or 2 year deals to get assets. I loved the Mason move. I'd move for Callahan, Spezza, Bouwmeester, Gunnarsson, Moulson, Lehtera, Sekera, Horton, Clarkson, etc.... any of those (and more i'm not thinking about)... but if its a 5 year deal, it better be a lot better than a late first rounder, and an early second rounder. While this may be a rebuild, the idea is to be coming out of the rebuild before 5 years is up, so you don't want to burden the cap for that length of time unless it is truly worth it.

If the centres pan out... you could be competing in 2-3 years. Especially with the extra 6 million from Lucic (plus what the cap goes up and what the habs have) to spend on defence. So yes, I could see the team competing in less than 5 years if they make the right moves.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'd take Lucic off the Oilers hand. I'd even involve Patch but the Oilers need to be prepared to cough up futures.

Habs assets on the table:
- Patch
- Alzner
- Byron
- Schlekmo
- Benn
- Some grade B prospects like Ikonen, Bitten, Lindgren

Oilers assets on the table:
- Lucic
- Sekera
- Puljujarvi
- 2019 1st
- future 2nd round picks

If there is interest, I'm willing to talk.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Do you see us competing anytime in the next 5 years with this lineup? Our prospects pool is almost devoid of NHL caliber talent thanks to Bergeving and Lefebvre..

Habs lack grade A prospects but you are grossly devaluing the group of Kotkaniemi, Poehling, Primeau, Mete, Juulsen, Scherbak, Ylonen, Olofsson, Brook, Fleury, Romanov, Ikonen to name a few.

Price, Weber, Gallagher, Drouin, Domi, Lehkonen, Danault is something we can build on and in 3 years, the prospects we have drafted in the last two drafts will start to filter through the team. 12 top 100 picks in the last two drafts is a big deal.

 

[Captain97]

Seen a ton of people bashing Timmins but he is actually a very good head scout. He hasn't had much to work with. Montreal has almost perpetually drafted around 25 in the first round for his time with Montreal.
And if you look at his pre draft lists GM's have ignored him several times.

In 2008 he wanted to draft J. Carlson Montreal traded the pick.
In 2009 he had Kreider and was told not to draft an American player.

Montreal's problem is not Trevor Timmins.

 

[ottomaddox]

Habs have enough bad contracts IMO

Is Weber on your list of bad contracts?

 

[Edgy]

Is Weber on your list of bad contracts?

If he isn't, he should be.
Dumbest trade since the McDonagh for Gomez and potentially second worst trade ever in Montreal.

 

[Jared Dunn]

I'm skeptical the problem isn't also at the drafting level but I'm not a Habs fan so I'm hardly an authority on the matter.

Fair enough but man, Habs have a hell of time getting high quality players on a regular basis via the draft.

I mean to be fair, they've also been near the top of the Atlantic for much of the last ten years.

And development wasalmost definitely the issue with Galchenyuk

 

[Jared Dunn]

Is Weber on your list of bad contracts?

Yes and no, it's difficult with him and Price because they're still both great players but you can definitely see the pain looming in the distance...

 

[Jared Dunn]

I'd take Lucic off the Oilers hand. I'd even involve Patch but the Oilers need to be prepared to cough up futures.

Habs assets on the table:
- Patch
- Alzner
- Byron
- Schlekmo
- Benn
- Some grade B prospects like Ikonen, Bitten, Lindgren

Oilers assets on the table:
- Lucic
- Sekera
- Puljujarvi
- 2019 1st
- future 2nd round picks

If there is interest, I'm willing to talk.

This is not an asset, let's be real

 

[Jared Dunn]

Name your price for taking on Bogo.

How highly do y'all value Guhle? Habs need left D and centers, fairly stocked on the wings and right side.

 

[Habs Halifax]

This is not an asset, let's be real

You making a point worth talking about?

 

[Jared Dunn]

You making a point worth talking about?

You can't really think Alzner has positive value?

 

[Habs Halifax]

You can't really think Alzner has positive value?

You are either trying to pick a fight over nothing or my point went over your head. Don't get caught up on the word assets. Change assets to whatever word makes you happy

 

[Jared Dunn]

You are either trying to pick a fight over nothing or my point went over your head.

Option number two I suppose. Also would be shocked if Bitten or Ikonen are moved before the organization gets a little better idea of what they can do

 

[McSuper]

Edm would like to unload Lucic.
What would be the cost?

5 years left at 6m a year.

If cap isn't an issue real money is what matters and Lucic has 5 years left at 4.5 a year . total 22.5 million

 

[Weltschmerz]

How highly do y'all value Guhle? Habs need left D and centers, fairly stocked on the wings and right side.

They won't dump Guhle to get rid of Bogo now. Down the road maybe he become available if Dahlin plays on the left side and Pilut can be good.

 

[Jared Dunn]

If cap isn't an issue real money is what matters and Lucic has 5 years left at 4.5 a year . total 22.5 million

Cap doesn't matter for like three years, it's got to be a hell of a sweetener to take on those extra two seasons where Lucic will almost undoubtedly be useless

 

[Jared Dunn]

They won't dump Guhle to get rid of Bogo now. Down the road maybe he become available if Dahlin plays on the left side and Pilut can be good.

That's what I figured. I'd probably say Bogo with whatever Buffalo's latest 1st is for someone like Schlemko or Benn in that case