Your 2013-2014 Venting / Group Therapy Thread

[joshjull]

Rare yes. May be better elsewhere? Maybe.

I'm happy with their progression at this point.

What progression would that be?

 

[Beerz]

And they're still making them, if you think about it; where are the decent FA's who want to come to Oil Country to make the Oilers better?

This is why we are doing full blown rebuild. Us..like Edmonton are not likely to attract decent FA's ..

What you see with Larsson, Girgensons ect ect maybe Grigs.. these are going to be our glue players....secondary pieces...we've yet to obtain our game breakers... we'll add vets later when we're satisfied with our potential elite talent.

 

[BananaSquad]

No they're not. The have no two way forwards, just a bunch of run and gunners. Name me a team that wins with players like that? I'll save you the time, there isn't.

Toronto Maple Leafs lol

 

[joshjull]

This is why we are doing full blown rebuild. Us..like Edmonton are not likely to attract decent FA's ..

What you see with Larsson, Girgensons ect ect maybe Grigs.. these are going to be our glue players....secondary pieces...we've yet to obtain our game breakers... we'll add vets later when we're satisfied with our potential elite talent.

Its really this simple in your mind isn't it. Thats scary

 

[Moskau]

I've made it pretty clear in many posts that I don't see what Chicago did as a repeatable model. Nor was it a rebuild. It was a crap owner not spending the money to ice a winning team. Its painful to have to repeatedly explain this. Then they got lucky on two fronts (death of the elder Wirtz and Kane draft lottery) to turn things around.

Actually they brute forced their way to where they are now and I believe we are following their model. They accumulated a tron of picks in a short span and many of the players that allowed them to win the cup were those picks.

How is it no able to be emulated? It's not that hard to set yourself up to pick high. We wont even need to win the lottery like they did. Reinhart is a very comparable player to Towes. And we're going to have a great chance at McDavid or Barzal. In fact if you follow the 2015 draft the top 2 players will be better than Kane and 3-5 have a shot at it. The only luck Chicago ran into was Byfuglien and maybe Brouwer.

I'm really surprised you don't think the Chicago model is repeatable. It's much more repeatable than Pittsburgh.

 

[ckg927]

And I think we can all agree that what awwu describes is the LAST thing we want to see in Buffalo.

 

[joshjull]

Toronto Maple Leafs lol

They won the Cup? When was this?

 

[BananaSquad]

They won the Cup? When was this?

NOPE but one of the top teams in the east this year lol. Run and gun is working for them

 

[ZZamboni]

No they're not. The have no two way forwards, just a bunch of run and gunners. Name me a team that wins with players like that? I'll save you the time, there isn't.

I'm glad you responded. You have a level head. I admit I didn't mean "set" as in all done. They are set with guys who have the talent to pour in goals. The two way guys are lacking, yes. So are a few D and solid goaltending. When I see them play, I generally like the effort they play with. and I can see the high talent. In regards to the Sabres, I like the rebuild and personally don't mind the suffering we are going thru. Granted I wish the effort was better most nights. And like you, I pay thousands annually to the Sabres. I go. I watch. I get into it. But I stay calm because I know what we have here and what the goal is ultimately.

 

[OkimLom]

watching this team, it's very very tough to believe in the trust of Regeir and Rolston being the guys that Should be overseeing this rebuild.

To think that no other GM and coach can do the same kind of job is really stretching it.

What I'm seeing on the ice is a group making the same mistakes consistently every game, not just 3 or 4 guys.

We as a fanbase are supposed to be okay and be patient and hope that the man that made this mess, fix it. I can't stand behind any aspect of this team. I'm at my wits end trying to find any glimmer of hope for the improvement of this team. These players are not improving each game, they are getting worse. They are playing like they don't realize the details of the game matter. There is no communication at all.

Sorry for the rant, just figured this is the play to post it.

 

[joshjull]

Actually they brute forced their way to where they are now and I believe we are following their model. They accumulated a tron of picks in a short span and many of the players that allowed them to win the cup were those picks.

How is it no able to be emulated? It's not that hard to set yourself up to pick high. We wont even need to win the lottery like they did. Reinhart is a very comparable player to Towes. And we're going to have a great chance at McDavid or Barzal. In fact if you follow the 2015 draft the top 2 players will be better than Kane and 3-5 have a shot at it. The only luck Chicago ran into was Byfuglien and maybe Brouwer.

I'm really surprised you don't think the Chicago model is repeatable. It's much more repeatable than Pittsburgh.

What? The won the draft lottery with a 8.1% chance and landed their Conn Smythe winner from their latest Cup win and he should have won it the first time. Youre really going to argue thats repeatable


Also you and a few others don't quite grasp the impact of Bill Wirtz death on that organization. Then went from spending like a small to mid sized market to spending like the big market franchise they are. There isn'tt a chance in hell they would have locked up all the guys they did plus sign the Hossa's of the world if he still owned the team. Thus no Cup.

Why that matters with us is we have little chance of signing thsoe types even if we turn things around through the draft. The reality is at some point Darcy will need to overpay to get some of the pieces we need via trade. Signing key UFAs isn;t likely to be a path we can take.

 

[Moskau]

6 more years of CoHo being completely clueless in his own end...

Are you familiar with Steve Yzerman's career?

 

[5 Minute Major]

Result-wise, this team is on par with the worst team in NHL history, the 74-75 Capitals.

You can spin rebuild any way you want but when you are this bad, that isn't a good thing.

 

[slip]

Wayne Gretzky once called New Jersey a "Mickey Mouse" organization. And then Mickey gave birth to Scott Stevens and Martin Brodeur and a host of other amazing talent to net the organization several Cups and many epic seasons.

The Scott ****, Kaleta's waiver, the overall league venom being spewed at us -- did we just have our own Mickey Mouse moment?

Is this the bottom?

Smells like it, that's for sure. We'll see.

 

[5 Minute Major]

Wayne Gretzky once called New Jersey a "Mickey Mouse" organization. And then Mickey gave birth to Scott Stevens and Martin Brodeur and a host of other amazing talent to net the organization several Cups and many epic seasons.

The Scott ****, Kaleta's waiver, the overall league venom being spewed at us -- did we just have our own Mickey Mouse moment?

Is this the bottom?

Smells like it, that's for sure. We'll see.

Yeah, he called them a MM organization in 1983. A decade plus later, they started winning Cups.

Let's hope it doesn't take that long to rebuild.

 

[slip]

Yeah, he called them a MM organization in 1983. A decade plus later, they started winning Cups.

Let's hope it doesn't take that long to rebuild.

I definitely wanted to minimize that part of the analogy.

On the bright side, we're in the middle of the transformative information revolution. According to my back-of-the-envelope calculations, things happen three times faster than they did in the early 80's. That means a cup in 3-4 years, no?

 

[joshjull]

I'm glad you responded. You have a level head. I admit I didn't mean "set" as in all done. They are set with guys who have the talent to pour in goals. The two way guys are lacking, yes. So are a few D and solid goaltending. When I see them play, I generally like the effort they play with. and I can see the high talent. In regards to the Sabres, I like the rebuild and personally don't mind the suffering we are going thru. Granted I wish the effort was better most nights. And like you, I pay thousands annually to the Sabres. I go. I watch. I get into it. But I stay calm because I know what we have here and what the goal is ultimately.

They are weak down the middle, on defense and in net. They are far away from where they need to be IMO. Of the recent Cup winners the only top player that could be remotely called one way is maybe Kane. But even he is solid defensively. You just don't win with that many one way players. Each of them would be a good piece on a better more well rounded team.

EDIT: and I almost forgot, they are run by an idiot.

 

[Rhett4]

Look at our assets ... Id say that is competence!

And look at some of our assets drowning in the deep end on a bad team. I'm not sure where this whole "Let's play every teenager we have" attitude came from, but I don't like it. At the very least, Zadorov needs to be back in London at the 9-game mark.

I'm all for acquiring top players in the draft. However, I want them handled correctly, and at this point, it looks like Regier and RR are running a total **** show.

 

[Havok89]

And look at some of our assets drowning in the deep end on a bad team. I'm not sure where this whole "Let's play every teenager we have" attitude came from, but I don't like it. At the very least, Zadorov needs to be back in London at the 9-game mark.

I'm all for acquiring top players in the draft. However, I want them handled correctly, and at this point, it looks like Regier and RR are running a total **** show.

I like what Regier's doing in terms of value. But I think Risto, Girgensons, and Zadarov should all be in FEL, AHL, and OHL respectively. Top minutes in a lower league for another year cant hurt.

 

[SatanwasaSlovak]

In times when my soccer-team has won the league for the 17th time i'm still haunted by the state of this team.

Have watched this video over and over again, damn those were some good times even though we didn't get all the way.

Please R&R gives us a team to believe in, atleast make the players show some effort. Show some heart, i don't care if we lose just show us something.

 

[wunderpanda]

Sabres made the playoffs the season before the Hodgson trade, and have spiraled downward at an alarming rate since he has been here. Haven't made the playoffs and off to a near historic horrific start. I think his ability to rack up points is offset by the fact he has a minus rating.

Trade Hodgson before we miss the playoffs for the duration of his overly generous contract!!

 

[Clock]

Another reminder: This is the venting thread. Let others blow off their steam here with that in mind, please.

 

[Irving Zisman]

What? The won the draft lottery with a 8.1% chance and landed their Conn Smythe winner from their latest Cup win and he should have won it the first time. Youre really going to argue thats repeatable


Also you and a few others don't quite grasp the impact of Bill Wirtz death on that organization. Then went from spending like a small to mid sized market to spending like the big market franchise they are. There isn'tt a chance in hell they would have locked up all the guys they did plus sign the Hossa's of the world if he still owned the team. Thus no Cup.

Why that matters with us is we have little chance of signing thsoe types even if we turn things around through the draft. The reality is at some point Darcy will need to overpay to get some of the pieces we need via trade. Signing key UFAs isn;t likely to be a path we can take.

Man I'm glad you posted this. I'll never know how some people can't wrap their heads around how both Pittsburgh and Chicago turned things around, and how it's very unlikely to be a repeatable "model."

Pittsburgh won a lottery for the best player in the last 15 years, followed by a #2 overall pick that is arguably the 2nd best player to come around in that same timeframe. Impact from lottery picks is almost never to the extent that they are from Crosby and Malkin.

Chicago's ownership change allowed for big spending, and people conveniently forget how pieces integral to their cup run- Keith, Big Buff, Sharp, Hossa, etc. we're NOT lottery picks.

Completely burning it to the ground and relying on lottery picks to magically turn around the franchise definitely helps your rebuild, but you still need solid veterans, great coaching and mentoring (severely lacking at the moment), and a positive atmosphere in which your kids can grow. I think people should be more concerned about the toxic, stagnant air around the team at the moment and the potential negative effect RonLOL might be having on our talented kids' development.

And a good point on luring UFA's: We'll always struggle with this to some degree, so at some point Regier will have to turn excess picks and prospects into high-end talent in Bobby Ryan-type trades (high end quantity pieced for one quality piece). There's only so
many roster spots on a team, and you've got to be mindful of not having too many quality youngsters hitting RFA the same time.

 

[brian_griffin]

Exactly, I don't mind going through a rebuild. What bothers me the most is setting up our very important prospects to fail. This team is completely RUSHING these prospects into the NHL. On a competent team Grigs, Girgs, Risto, Zadarov, are all not playing on the NHL team. They should all be in developmental leagues. (I know JFB is huge on this, and I completely agree with him) We are following the Oilers model and its going to be a complete and utter failure.

Its fairly rare to play this many teenagers and youngsters in general. You really don't need a crystal ball to know these guys may be better of elsewhere right now.

Agreed. I think there are ~7 waiver-exempt skaters on the Sabres, and 48 NHL contracts, if I count correctly.

In order for BUF to bring in "filler" vets to bridge the rebuild and allow some (not all, obviously) of the less-ready prospects to develop in Rochester, one of 3 things will need to happen, IMO:

1. Trade vets like Miller, Stafford, Leino, maybe Ehrhoff for bridge vets, instead of for picks / prospects. However, I just can't see BUF doing that - I think they want the picks / prospects, as those picks / prospects can then be (traded as-is, or bundled with other picks / prospects) flipped to a greater number of teams to target a greater number of vets than strictly those teams who would be willing to take Miller, Staffor, Leino, etc.

2. Same as above, but take a "bridge" vet back with the pick/prospect. I assume the pick / prospect would be a lesser value than the analogous pick or prospect in scenario #1, since the "bridge" vet coming to BUF would also have value. The way for BUF to obtain a greater number of trade partners is to take a salary dump vet from their trading partner. This type of scenario has been discussed frequently by others.

3. Release (Rochester) prospects and claim waiver-eligible vets given BUF's low-standings. Problem is this season a waiver-eligible vet only needed to clear once at beginning of the season, so if I understand this change correctly, this waiver-claim tool is a lot less viable as a "net" to catch someone BUF would be interested in.

Bottom line - I just don't see BUF doing much to acquire "bridge" vets for this season of the rebuild until we get to the 2014 offseason.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

Agreed. I think there are ~7 waiver-exempt skaters on the Sabres, and 48 NHL contracts, if I count correctly.

In order for BUF to bring in "filler" vets to bridge the rebuild and allow some (not all, obviously) of the less-ready prospects to develop in Rochester, one of 3 things will need to happen, IMO:

1. Trade vets like Miller, Stafford, Leino, maybe Ehrhoff for bridge vets, instead of for picks / prospects. However, I just can't see BUF doing that - I think they want the picks / prospects, as those picks / prospects can then be (traded as-is, or bundled with other picks / prospects) flipped to a greater number of teams to target a greater number of vets than strictly those teams who would be willing to take Miller, Staffor, Leino, etc.

2. Same as above, but take a "bridge" vet back with the pick/prospect. I assume the pick / prospect would be a lesser value than the analogous pick or prospect in scenario #1, since the "bridge" vet coming to BUF would also have value. The way for BUF to obtain a greater number of trade partners is to take a salary dump vet from their trading partner. This type of scenario has been discussed frequently by others.

3. Release (Rochester) prospects and claim waiver-eligible vets given BUF's low-standings. Problem is this season a waiver-eligible vet only needed to clear once at beginning of the season, so if I understand this change correctly, this waiver-claim tool is a lot less viable as a "net" to catch someone BUF would be interested in.

Bottom line - I just don't see BUF doing much to acquire "bridge" vets for this season of the rebuild until we get to the 2014 offseason.

There is another option.

Porter, Ellis, Sulzer are sitting in Rochester. They can be called up.

Luke Adam can be called up. His long-term future is very much in doubt, but he can be a filler in the short-term.