You get to choose and you can only choose one: Mike Babcock or Ken Holland.

[detredWINgs]

I'd rather keep Babcock.

Its disturbing to me that Ken Holland's performance has significantly worsened as the challenges have increased. How can you be one of the best GMs in the NHL if your resume is built upon easy sailing? When we needed Holland to step up and get aggressive or creative, he instead opted for status quo: going with a veteran heavy roster, re-signing known quantities even if the quality was lacking, and low-balling free agents. These are things he got away with before the luster of the pre-lockout era began to fade and he has failed to adapt. Not just once, but repeatedly over the past 3-5 years. And whats even more mind-boggling is that he makes the same mistakes over and over again. What about that is a sign of one of the league's best GMs?

Ken Holland is just another example of an upper-level management mind that has successfully functioned one way for so long that he fails to realize that he's not just "on a string of bad luck" but rather that the game has changed altogether. I think that is further reinforced by the fact that neither of his apprentices have functioned even remotely close to the way Ken Holland has as a GM. Neither of them have sat back and waited for a low-risk opportunity to present itself, but instead have worked actively to change their positions even at the prospect of making a risky move.

 

[detredWINgs]

Babs in the GM role. (or if we can somehow by some miracle get Stevie back here to GM) And Blashill to take Babs spot.

That already exists. His name is Brian Burke.

 

[GBFP]

Can we get Yzerman or Nill back? Holland has set himself nicely to have no heir apparent within the organization(Draper/Fischer are years of experience away yet), while having Blashill waiting in the wings as a potential head coach. Nobody in the org see the obvious and very overt power grab Holland has pulled?

 

[detredWINgs]

Mostly RFA contracts and no brainers like Dekeyser's first contract and Datsyuk's extension.

Holland is massively underwhelming in trading/free agency. Other than Hossa, Alfie is the only one to really work out the past 5 years. Whether it's just his terrible luck or something else, he just hasn't won on any others.

But his drafting is keeping him and this team alive. Even the picks made in the last couple of years are pretty good. We've got a stud goalie, a few promising d-prospects right on the edge, a bunch of good forwards. I have no idea how our prospect pool truly compares to the 29 other teams, but we seem to come out in the top10/15 on all those lists. And the ones at the top are generally the worst teams who pick really high.

The funny thing is, Hossa and Alfredsson literally came to him. There is zero hyperbole there.

 

[ricky0034]

Mostly RFA contracts and no brainers like Dekeyser's first contract and Datsyuk's extension.

Holland is massively underwhelming in trading/free agency. Other than Hossa, Alfie is the only one to really work out the past 5 years. Whether it's just his terrible luck or something else, he just hasn't won on any others.

But his drafting is keeping him and this team alive. Even the picks made in the last couple of years are pretty good. We've got a stud goalie, a few promising d-prospects right on the edge, a bunch of good forwards. I have no idea how our prospect pool truly compares to the 29 other teams, but we seem to come out in the top10/15 on all those lists. And the ones at the top are generally the worst teams who pick really high.

i'd say Brunner worked out pretty well too the year he was here for what he was

 

[Detroit Sports*]

I thought it said FIRE one. I incorrectly selected Holland. I rather have Babcock. Mods please change my vote

 

[Crymson]

Hasn't he blocked Ouellet? Not by virtue of taking a forward spot in the lineup, but a roster spot? If we had no Cleary, that'd be another roster spot and we could go 13/8

Correct.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I absolutely love that babcock is throwing holland under the bus

about time someone step up and say it like it is, the Don Cherry on hockey mgmt is to blame

 

[gcdc14]

Babcock, and it has become clearer these days.

 

[Reality Check]

I'll go with Holland for this reason.

All coaches, even the greatest ones, burn out and a new voice is needed. With Babcock being here nearly ten seasons, Detroit is reaching that point.

 

[Vladdy84]

I'll go with Holland for this reason.

All coaches, even the greatest ones, burn out and a new voice is needed. With Babcock being here nearly ten seasons, Detroit is reaching that point.

I know I'm not the only one. But I'm always amazed when I realize he has been here that long.

 

[Sadekuuro]

I think they're both quite stale at this point.

 

[Hammerheart]

Holland is harder to replace. Lose Babs, gain Blashill. No brainer here.

 

[BSHH]

I absolutely love that babcock is throwing holland under the bus

about time someone step up and say it like it is, the Don Cherry on hockey mgmt is to blame

Babcock's public statement was selfish and detrimental to the team. Holland's contract was just extended; even if one would - albeit without any good reason - consider Babcok's illoyalty indeed as "step[ping] up and say[ing] it like it is", him having a different opinion from Holland on a minor roster question will not change anything. It would have been questionable, had Babcock voiced his anger towards Holland's superiors. But criticising him and Kindl/Lashoff publicly is the worst thing Babcock could have done.

Gruß,
BSHH

 

[BinCookin]

Babcock's public statement was selfish and detrimental to the team. Holland's contract was just extended; even if one would - albeit without any good reason - consider Babcok's illoyalty indeed as "step[ping] up and say[ing] it like it is", him having a different opinion from Holland on a minor roster question will not change anything. It would have been questionable, had Babcock voiced his anger towards Holland's superiors. But criticising him and Kindl/Lashoff publicly is the worst thing Babcock could have done.

Gruß,
BSHH

I see it as the opposite.
Babcock doesn't need to worry about getting fired. he is arguably the most successful NHL coach right now. He will be the highest paid coach next year no matter who he plays for. This kind of security allows him to voice his opinion.

2nd. he is standing up for the player here. He knows the XO is better than Kindl TODAY (who knows about a whole season, but Kindl has underwhelmed so far).
By throwing it out there, he at least starts the conversation which puts pressure on Holland to do something about it.

You could call this "tension": But i think Holland needs a little push sometime. I think Holland is TOO patient sometimes. And realize I think Holland's Patience is a good thing MOST the time. But he needs charismatic people around him that push him to act reluctantly.

He needs to improve his D. And there just isnt enough time because next year he has 5 rookies that have to stay on the TEAM? Thats basically impossible. So you need to test them asap and or trade some. HAVE TO. Both Jensen and XO seem like they can play here NOW. Lashoff is good defensively but honestly at this point when we talk about #7 guys, id prefer we test some of our rookies. Lashoff is merely acceptable. I feel the new rookies will be acceptable as well. He was a good stop gap, but I am ok at this point playing Jensen/XO as #6/7. At worst case 1 of them should be on the team for 20 games, then send him down and bring up the other.

The status quo assumes XO/Jensen/Sproul/Marchenko will all just be trade bait to get a "real"(top4) defender.

Bottom line I like was Babcock has done. Holland needs to deal with this defender thing SOON.

Play them, Trade them, Ditch our crappy ones... Do something.
Because we have 1 year to decide the future of about 7-8 of these guys for 2-3 spots on the team!!!

Edit: I would also like to mention our RISK / REWARD on these D men. There is not alot of reward for Kindl/Lashoff. (experience/low upside) But there is alot for XO / Jensen.

If XO/Jensen fail worse than the two above, so be it.. But at least we took the risk.
If they fail we still have options: Marchenko/Backman/Sproul
Or Trade Or FA.
Lots of options. The Status quo is not good for a team declining. We need some risk. And Babcock is forcing Hollands hand a little. I think it is a GREAT thing to say what he said.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Babcock's public statement was selfish and detrimental to the team. Holland's contract was just extended; even if one would - albeit without any good reason - consider Babcok's illoyalty indeed as "step[ping] up and say[ing] it like it is", him having a different opinion from Holland on a minor roster question will not change anything. It would have been questionable, had Babcock voiced his anger towards Holland's superiors. But criticising him and Kindl/Lashoff publicly is the worst thing Babcock could have done.

Gruß,
BSHH

the only thing selfish and detremental to the team were hollands actions of not doing as his coach said regarding the players he wants on the bench.

sometimes public pressure is the best way to get action, in fact in sports, its usually the best way

 

[Crymson]

Holland was once good for this team. For the past five seasons, he has done a putrid job, and the results have not convinced him that his ways are anywhere in error.

Bad results + self-delusional manager = more of the same problems ahead.

 

[Fugu]

There's a certain way that GM and coaching jobs usually go. All GMs like to bring in their own people.

So if you fire Holland, who do you bring in to replace him? I don't know of many great GMs that are easily available. My favorites include Poile, and though I had at one point not liked Lombardi... well, I doubt he'd want to leave his situation right now.

Even so, whoever that would turn out to be may not think Babcock is the guy HE wants behind the bench. You cannot bring in a new GM and tell him he can't change head coaches.

And, yes, coaches are hard to find too, but Blashill seems like he'd be a good one. So do you try the Holland-Blashill tandem, and if it's still stale, both may know it's time to change.

Bylsma was recently jettisoned, but I don't think he was the problem in Pittsburgh either.

 

[Hadoop]

Babcock for me. There are a few GMs in the league who have surpassed Holland IMO (Peter Chiarelli in Boston, Dean Lombardi in LA) whereas I think Babcock is still the best coach in the league.

 

[Fugu]

Babcock for me. There are a few GMs in the league who have surpassed Holland IMO (Peter Chiarelli in Boston, Dean Lombardi in LA) whereas I think Babcock is still the best coach in the league.

You missed my point, Cruiser. If you fire Holland, how do you guarantee the next GM wants to keep Babs? The team can't just bump Nill up any more and keep with the same program.

That's a tough, tough treading of water the team would have to do.

 

[Vladdy84]

Pretty sure one of our posters just called into 105.1 to talk about Babcock.

 

[Heaton]

You missed my point, Cruiser. If you fire Holland, how do you guarantee the next GM wants to keep Babs? The team can't just bump Nill up any more and keep with the same program.

That's a tough, tough treading of water the team would have to do.

Because Babcock would be the GM.

 

[FlashyG]

The funny thing is, Hossa and Alfredsson literally came to him. There is zero hyperbole there.

That is 100% false.

In Hossa's case, Holland offered him a long term deal and then got a call from Hossa's agent (While Holland was at a gas station) asking if he'd instead be willing to do a 1 year deal.

In Alfredsson's case he was set on going back to Ottawa when Holland contacted him about possibly coming to Detroit. After talking with Holland, Babcock and some of the guys he knew on the team he decided to come to the Wings.

Because Babcock would be the GM.

Now that would be a disaster.

 

[InjuredChoker]

In Alfredsson's case he was set on going back to Ottawa when Holland contacted him about possibly coming to Detroit. After talking with Holland, Babcock and some of the guys he knew on the team he decided to come to the Wings.
.

alfie/his agent contacted us first. not the other way around.

edit. holland actually called his agent, j.p. barry. but not about alfie. he asked him who of his clients were UFA and he said alfie is thinking about moving on, are you interested?

 

[Heaton]

Now that would be a disaster.

Maybe, maybe not. Really no way to know that.