Post-Game Talk: You Gelly ???? Sens Fans...... Devils win 5-2

[Sir Fenwick Corsi]

It's a big "if" obviously, but if Larsson, Merrill and Gelinas all pan out the way we hope, NJ is going to be a legit Cup contender in the not so distant future. And it's not going to be a one and done type situation. This is the type of core you build your franchise around. Add Cory into the mix and we're going to see very good things. They're going to contend for years. I have never seen this much potential on the Devils defense in regards to young players all breaking in at the same time.

My hope for this year is that the Devils can somehow make the playoffs but also transition this next wave into the franchise. That's what it's all about. Having guys like Brodeur, Elias and Jagr around helps tremendously with this. You have all of these young players who have some serious potential. Getting the chance to paly with players of this stature, to see their work ethic, well they have to take advantage of this. The Devils have a real opportunity here to lay a real solid foundation for years to come.

 

[Chessarmy]

Up until the last two games, NJ's defense has been very spotty. They were starting to look a lot like the early season Devils imho. I know it's policy around here to blame the goaltending for everything, but this team was simply not defending as well without Larsson in the lineup. That's not to say that he's the sole reason for this, but they clearly missed his play. He was playing some really strong defense prior to his injury.

Larsson looked better, sure, but I blame those games mostly on the absence of Bryce Salvador. This team misses his steadiness in the defensive zone more than anything right now.

It would be nice to have him back in the line-up.

Greene-Merrill
Gelinas-Larsson
Salvador-Zidlicky
Fayne, Volchenkov

Waived: Peter Harrold

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Kane and Toews beg to differ.

Let me know when Weber wins a cup.

Yes because Duncan Keith isn't on that team either.

Oh and Hjalmarsson, Cambell, Byfuglien.

Also you misunderstood my point. One impact forward and one impact D man isn't going to do you any good. But a group, a core, of solid D is going to get you a lot farther than a core of solid forwards.

Playoff hockey isn't an "all you can score" buffet.

 

[DEVILS ALL THE WAY*]

Right which makes my point. You're "wow'ed" by a guy like Gelinas yet don't appreciate what guys like Larsson and Merrill bring (at least nowhere near as much as you appreciate Gelinas's game).

Trading Adam Larsson right now, at what is very likely his lowest perceived value, would very likely be Lou's dumbest move as GM of the Devils. That includes not giving up pick 29. Trading Adam Larsson, right now or heck even in a couple of months, is almost as stupid.

Yes, you have to give to get, but the Devils are not built the way you want them to be built. They never have been built that way and they never will be built that way. Lou is going to look for a Nieds, Stevens, Dano, and Rafalski. He's going to look for another Marty. He doesn't care if you want Kane, Yakupov, Eberle or whatever flavor of the month young forward catches your attention. Lou built a dominant force his way, from the net out, and he's going to continue to do it.

He may not get a Nieds, Stevens, Dano, Rafalski or a Marty ever again. But damn am I ever excited for what Larsson, Gelinas, Merill, Severson and Cory can bring.

Be very careful when you flip young D for young forwards. I remember a time when Michalek had more value than Weber - before Weber blossomed. I saw a thread here at HF that had Michalek winning by nearly 90% of the votes.

Forwards are sexy. Young forwards are sexy. But that's not what's going to win you championships.

I do appreciate Merrill's game and I've been throwing him flowers for the past couple of weeks now. I don't rave about Larsson's game because I don't he's better then Merrill or Gélinas. His foot speed is below average and that's probably the main issue I have with Adam... he's too slow when facing the oppositions top unit. His lack of fiestyness is also something that bothers me but it's not as glaring as point #1.

I understand that you have to build a contender from the net out but when you don't have anyone to put the puck in the back the net, it's pretty hard to win games at the NHL level when you're averaging less then 2 goals per... Again, let's ask Schneider what he thinks about the goal support he get's when he's playing.

No one is saying we should move Larsson for Rich Peverley and picks but flipping a couple of youngsters with the same upside is something I'd do. Adam Larsson isn't proven, the player we'd get wouldn't be proven either and both kids have the same upside... the risk is really minimal.

Again, when was the last time you saw a entire d-core that was homegrowned from top to bottom? Our best assets are on our blueline, so why not move our "surplus" to fill a major void?

 

[DEVILS ALL THE WAY*]

Yes because Duncan Keith isn't on that team either.

Oh and Hjalmarsson, Cambell, Byfuglien.

Also you misunderstood my point. One impact forward and one impact D man isn't going to do you any good. But a group, a core, of solid D is going to get you a lot farther than a core of solid forwards.

Playoff hockey isn't an "all you can score" buffet.

You just proved my point by responding to another poster

You need a solid MIX of talent, not just at one position. The Hawks had Kane and Toews up front (you can throw Hossa, Sharp, etc as well) but they also had Keith, Seabrook and company on their blueline.

You need guys that will put the puck in the net and guys that will prevent the opposition from doing the same... thus, my point about having a balanced lineup.

 

[devilsblood]

Yes because Duncan Keith isn't on that team either.

Oh and Hjalmarsson, Cambell, Byfuglien.

Also you misunderstood my point. One impact forward and one impact D man isn't going to do you any good. But a group, a core, of solid D is going to get you a lot farther than a core of solid forwards.

Playoff hockey isn't an "all you can score" buffet.

Yeah u need a well rounded team, that's the point. Right now, but especially looking fwd, we are very d-heavy and fwd-light.

And wasn't Buf a fwd on Chicago's 1st cup team? But I'll take Kane over Keith anyday.

 

[Cheddabombs]

It's a big "if" obviously, but if Larsson, Merrill and Gelinas all pan out the way we hope, NJ is going to be a legit Cup contender in the not so distant future. And it's not going to be a one and done type situation. This is the type of core you build your franchise around. Add Cory into the mix and we're going to see very good things. They're going to contend for years. I have never seen this much potential on the Devils defense in regards to young players all breaking in at the same time.

My hope for this year is that the Devils can somehow make the playoffs but also transition this next wave into the franchise. That's what it's all about. Having guys like Brodeur, Elias and Jagr around helps tremendously with this. You have all of these young players who have some serious potential. Getting the chance to paly with players of this stature, to see their work ethic, well they have to take advantage of this. The Devils have a real opportunity here to lay a real solid foundation for years to come.

I do agree that the future of this defense is extremely bright. There are so many guys with top pairing-top 4 potential in the system it's truly remarkable to see. And if Cory, by some miracle, decides to stay in New Jersey long term than we are practically set in the back-end for years to come. But something has to give eventually for our forwards. Our best forwards are old guys that are close to retirement (Jagr, Elias, Zubie), our young forwards have shown glimpses of hope but not enough for me to feel content with, and the rest are basically band-aid free agent pick-ups so who knows if they'll be Devils in the future. With the defense in place and Cory backing them up, I think this team has playoff contender for the distant future written all over them. Lou has to do something with the forwards though for me to be ready to label them cup contenders.

 

[RNCDevil]

...His foot speed is below average and that's probably the main issue I have with Adam... he's too slow when facing the oppositions top unit. His lack of fiestyness is also something that bothers me but it's not as glaring as point #1....

I agree with the footspeed point, but that can be improved. I totally disagree on the fiestyness point. I've seen the aggression. I love his vision, passing and positioning. He was looking great before the undisclosed middle/upper/lower body injury.

I'm stuck drooling over Larsson, Gelly, Merrill, Severson, Scarlett, Santini as a 3-pair force. The major issue is if they all live up to potentional that's probably $30 M of salary cap for those 6. That's a lot of speculation, but a boy can dream...

 

[Sir Fenwick Corsi]

Larsson looked better, sure, but I blame those games mostly on the absence of Bryce Salvador. This team misses his steadiness in the defensive zone more than anything right now.

It would be nice to have him back in the line-up.

Greene-Merrill
Gelinas-Larsson
Salvador-Zidlicky
Fayne, Volchenkov

Waived: Peter Harrold

I feel the team misses Salvador as well, but he's been out for nearly 3/4 of the season already . NJ really didn't start improving until he was already out of the lineup.

My guess is that Fayne will be moved. I really don't see a place for him any longer. I think they appreciate what Volchenkov brings, as hard as that may be for some people to accept, and his contract is terrible. He's going to be sticking around. With Harrold in the mix, some musical chairs will be going on here and there. It will likely take care of itself though. Players are always getting injured so I don't expect Lou to be trimming too much fat. The depth at defense has saved this season, so far.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Again, when was the last time you saw a entire d-core that was homegrowned from top to bottom? Our best assets are on our blueline, so why not move our "surplus" to fill a major void?

Just because it hasn't been done before doesn't mean it can't be done. This is really restrictive thinking. "Let's not bother building airplanes because 'when is the last time you saw anyone fly?'"

Why can't we do it? We have a plethora of young D and if 4 of them hit we're set up for the next decade. Again. Why risk losing out on that for a young forward that may or may not fit here. The riskiest proposition for New Jersey is to send one of their stud D to a team for a young F. That young F comes here and blows it and NJ looks mighty stupid.

Look at the 1995 team for a minute. Who were your studs? Stevens? Marty? Ok expected. Lemieux was acquired for a guy who just potted 30. Broten who had a ton of GWG in the playoffs was acquired with Chambers in another trade that had NJ trading another forward (Millen) who just scored 50 points. Richer was acquired for Muller. Again, all of these trades were made for players of comparable ages (late 20s early 30s) and had NJ giving up forwards and nearly nothing from the back unless they were upgrading.

Holik was acquired in a trade for two journeyman who didn't have anywhere near Larsson's potential. I'm probably forgetting a ton but my point is you just have to look at history to get an idea of what Lou is really willing to do. And he's not going to give you any of his young D when that blueprint has worked for perfection.

I expect him, way before he moves any D, to trade from his forwards. Trade guys who may not fit for guys you think may fit. Trade a Ryder, a Henrique, Josefson, Loktionov, Brunner, Tedenby and pull off a trade for a Lemieux, Guerin - guys who can take off in NJ.

We've never been the team to acquire that sexy forward - save Kovalchuk because that was the anomaly. Why would we start now? I guess you can count Lango and Joe? But then again we were (at the time) getting hosed remember? Those players weren't viewed like Yak and Kane and Eberle are viewed by some here.

I think I trust Lou's blueprint more than anything.

 

[HenriquesJawLine]

I do agree that the future of this defense is extremely bright. There are so many guys with top pairing-top 4 potential in the system it's truly remarkable to see. And if Cory, by some miracle, decides to stay in New Jersey long term than we are practically set in the back-end for years to come. But something has to give eventually for our forwards. Our best forwards are old guys that are close to retirement (Jagr, Elias, Zubie), our young forwards have shown glimpses of hope but not enough for me to feel content with, and the rest are basically band-aid free agent pick-ups so who knows if they'll be Devils in the future. With the defense in place and Cory backing them up, I think this team has playoff contender for the distant future written all over them. Lou has to do something with the forwards though for me to be ready to label them cup contenders.

I'm hoping Loktionov continues to progress offensively and one of Teddy/JJ to become a regular, that's pretty important considering our lack of top young forward prospects. I still like Loktionov's game even though he's not putting up a lot of points but I'd like him to be a 15 goal guy

 

[BuiltLikeAnOx]

i think people on here are getting a little too excited about winning the last two games. if we win the next 3 games that would be something to get excited about

 

[sbresistor]

maybe Schneider could net a good young forward in a trade?

he's the goalie of the future, but given the risk of him not being sooo great & the flight risk + him being underutilized in the present, could be a thought

what do you think Schneider could bring back right now in value?

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Yeah u need a well rounded team, that's the point. Right now, but especially looking fwd, we are very d-heavy and fwd-light.

And wasn't Buf a fwd on Chicago's 1st cup team? But I'll take Kane over Keith anyday.

Do we need a balance? Ideally sure. But no one is going to give you a Patrick Kane or Toews. You get those in FA or you draft them. Trading for them leaves your team barren.

So you go with the second best method - build a brick wall between them and your goalie. Put solid guys offensively that can get you a goal or two and go from there. When healthy, our offense is fully capable of winning a playoff series. Moving forward, with flexibility given to us by our young D and our new ownership, we should be very competitive in FA.

Not everything has to be done right now. We have the luxury of time - of waiting to see how these kids develop and who hits the market and at what price.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

maybe Schneider could net a good young forward in a trade?

he's the goalie of the future, but given the risk of him not being sooo great & the flight risk + him being underutilized in the present, could be a thought

what do you think Schneider could bring back right now in value?

Lou is going to sit down with Cory after the year and say "look, Marty isn't going to be around forever. Look at Adam, Eric, and Jon. Look at Reid. We have a few more kids in the pipeline to protect your net. Look at my 3 Cups. You have the potential to be competitive here for the next decade. I've done it before."

Cory isn't going anywhere. He's a vital - probably the most important - part of this plan.

 

[sbresistor]

Lou is going to sit down with Cory after the year and say "look, Marty isn't going to be around forever. Look at Adam, Eric, and Jon. Look at Reid. We have a few more kids in the pipeline to protect your net. Look at my 3 Cups. You have the potential to be competitive here for the next decade. I've done it before."

Cory isn't going anywhere. He's a vital - probably the most important - part of this plan.

you are probably right - hopefully it works out that way

 

[glenwo2]

i think people on here are getting a little too excited about winning the last two games. if we win the next 3 games that would be something to get excited about

Especially when the next 2 games are against high-octane offenses that could bury us if they don't bring it like they did against Ottawa.

The Ducks - How the hell did the Devils beat them in Anaheim? (btw, that's a rhetorical question)

The Caps - That team is firing on all cylinders though they don't scare me as much as the Ducks with Getzlaf and Perry.

 

[devilsblood]

maybe Schneider could net a good young forward in a trade?

he's the goalie of the future, but given the risk of him not being sooo great & the flight risk + him being underutilized in the present, could be a thought

what do you think Schneider could bring back right now in value?

I think Schneid's could absolutely net a good young fwd. I've mentioned Nail Yak. Don't know if edm would bite, but it seems like a good fit.

I understand the "can't trade him he is the goalie of the future" angle, but I'm looking at "he's not even the #1 right now and he could bolt" angle. Along with the fact that there are teams with numerous good looking goalies. Under untilized asset right now.

 

[SeidoN]

if we traded Schneider for Yak my facepalm would cause an earthquake

 

[DEVILS ALL THE WAY*]

Just because it hasn't been done before doesn't mean it can't be done. This is really restrictive thinking. "Let's not bother building airplanes because 'when is the last time you saw anyone fly?'"

Why can't we do it? We have a plethora of young D and if 4 of them hit we're set up for the next decade. Again. Why risk losing out on that for a young forward that may or may not fit here. The riskiest proposition for New Jersey is to send one of their stud D to a team for a young F. That young F comes here and blows it and NJ looks mighty stupid.

Look at the 1995 team for a minute. Who were your studs? Stevens? Marty? Ok expected. Lemieux was acquired for a guy who just potted 30. Broten who had a ton of GWG in the playoffs was acquired with Chambers in another trade that had NJ trading another forward (Millen) who just scored 50 points. Richer was acquired for Muller. Again, all of these trades were made for players of comparable ages (late 20s early 30s) and had NJ giving up forwards and nearly nothing from the back unless they were upgrading.

Holik was acquired in a trade for two journeyman who didn't have anywhere near Larsson's potential. I'm probably forgetting a ton but my point is you just have to look at history to get an idea of what Lou is really willing to do. And he's not going to give you any of his young D when that blueprint has worked for perfection.

I expect him, way before he moves any D, to trade from his forwards. Trade guys who may not fit for guys you think may fit. Trade a Ryder, a Henrique, Josefson, Loktionov, Brunner, Tedenby and pull off a trade for a Lemieux, Guerin - guys who can take off in NJ.

We've never been the team to acquire that sexy forward - save Kovalchuk because that was the anomaly. Why would we start now? I guess you can count Lango and Joe? But then again we were (at the time) getting hosed remember? Those players weren't viewed like Yak and Kane and Eberle are viewed by some here.

I think I trust Lou's blueprint more than anything.

C'mon now, comparing a team from two decades ago isn't rational here. I understand you're not comparing both rosters and you're basically pointing out how the team was built but still, moving Henrique + Brunner will get you a pair of warm socks and that's about it.

We have depth up front, that's not a issue at all. The thing is, depth is the only thing we have up front and there's no legit talent outside of two players who are a couple of years away from retirement. Losing Parise and Kovalchuk crippled our forward talent and Lou basically had to buy multiple "average" talent to compensate for the talent that bolted elsewhere.

With that said, Lou pulled the trigger on deals to increase our goal scoring problems and I wouldn't be surprised if he did the same around the deadline or this summer. It's a pretty sad state of affairs when your leading scorer is a 41 year old winger you signed almost as a "backup plan" last offseason cause there's not one person here who would've imagined that Jagr would be leading our team in goals, assits and points close to the midway point of the season. If he retires in the offseason, what do we do? Opposing teams will smell the blood in the water and will demand the moon for their forwards, cause if we're going with a 1st line of Brunner-Zajac-Zubrus... might as well start the campaign for McDavid.

 

[tycobb]

I still think Larsson is far and away our best defensive prospect. Merrill and Gelinas have both been great, but people need to understand that Larsson is much better than Gelinas and better than Merrill in the defensive zone. He is also like a year younger than Merrill and nearly two years younger than Gelinas.

I would be greatly upset if we trade away any one of that group. Once Sal comes back it is going to very interesting to see what Lou does. I am thinking Merrill has to be sent back down to the AHL until we move one of Volch, Sal, and Zidlicky.

Greene - Larsson
Gelinas -Zidlicky
Volch - Sal
Fayne

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

I think Schneid's could absolutely net a good young fwd. I've mentioned Nail Yak. Don't know if edm would bite, but it seems like a good fit.I understand the "can't trade him he is the goalie of the future" angle, but I'm looking at "he's not even the #1 right now and he could bolt" angle. Along with the fact that there are teams with numerous good looking goalies. Under untilized asset right now.

Uh what? Edmonton would jump at this trade in a nanosecond. They wouldn't even think about it.

C'mon now, comparing a team from two decades ago isn't rational here. I understand you're not comparing both rosters and you're basically pointing out how the team was built but still, moving Henrique + Brunner will get you a pair of warm socks and that's about it.

We have depth up front, that's not a issue at all. The thing is, depth is the only thing we have up front and there's no legit talent outside of two players who are a couple of years away from retirement. Losing Parise and Kovalchuk crippled our forward talent and Lou basically had to buy multiple "average" talent to compensate for the talent that bolted elsewhere.

With that said, Lou pulled the trigger on deals to increase our goal scoring problems and I wouldn't be surprised if he did the same around the deadline or this summer. It's a pretty sad state of affairs when your leading scorer is a 41 year old winger you signed almost as a "backup plan" last offseason cause there's not one person here who would've imagined that Jagr would be leading our team in goals, assits and points close to the midway point of the season. If he retires in the offseason, what do we do? Opposing teams will smell the blood in the water and will demand the moon for their forwards, cause if we're going with a 1st line of Brunner-Zajac-Zubrus... might as well start the campaign for McDavid.

You're looking for studs. I'm not. I'm looking for complimentary pieces, lateral moves for players that might fit better. Like a Guerin or a Lemieux. Guys who would just take off here. Heck even a Broten who would be a flash in the pan for one year. Guys like a Ponikarovsky for one year here.

You want a stud. I don't. Trading for a stud sets us back, not forward. Unless it's Lou giving scraps for Kovy - I'm not pulling the trigger. Period.

You're trying to destroy all the work Lou did in a trade for a young forward who may or may not pan out here. I'm preaching financial flexibility, status quo, staying the course - building from the back and filling in our holes through FA and the draft.

 

[tycobb]

I think Schneid's could absolutely net a good young fwd. I've mentioned Nail Yak. Don't know if edm would bite, but it seems like a good fit.

I understand the "can't trade him he is the goalie of the future" angle, but I'm looking at "he's not even the #1 right now and he could bolt" angle. Along with the fact that there are teams with numerous good looking goalies. Under untilized asset right now.

Zero chance we trade Cory. He is as good as we thought and if wasn't for the team not scoring for him early on I think he would have already had many more starts than Marty.

Larsson, Gelinas, Merrill, and Cory are the future core of this team.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

I'll be excited when we win 3 in a row with Cory in net.

 

[DEVILS ALL THE WAY*]

Lou is going to sit down with Cory after the year and say "look, Marty isn't going to be around forever. Look at Adam, Eric, and Jon. Look at Reid. We have a few more kids in the pipeline to protect your net. Look at my 3 Cups. You have the potential to be competitive here for the next decade. I've done it before."

Cory isn't going anywhere. He's a vital - probably the most important - part of this plan.

We all want Schneider to sign here long term, that's not the point here... the point is, does Schneider want to sign him long term, cause he's the only holding the entire deck of cards and Lou's basically at the merci of what he and his agent will say.

That's the thing about free agency. Even if a Gm is willing to offer the moon+ to keep one of his own, the players holds all the leverage.

See Scott Niedermayer for more info.

I think Schneid's could absolutely net a good young fwd. I've mentioned Nail Yak. Don't know if edm would bite, but it seems like a good fit.

I understand the "can't trade him he is the goalie of the future" angle, but I'm looking at "he's not even the #1 right now and he could bolt" angle. Along with the fact that there are teams with numerous good looking goalies. Under untilized asset right now.

I said the same thing a couple of weeks ago.

Certain posters were adamant about not moving a solid piece to land a #1 netminder in order to replace Marty and when we gave up the 9th overall pick for a stud goaltender, that same opinion went out the window in a flash.

There's several solid netminders who aren't getting #1 minutes. The Leafs have a couple of young solid netminders, the Sens pulled Anderson out of left field and it didn't cost them anything, the Blues and Wild have two solid netminders as well, the Kings look to have a solid "option B" with Jones (or Scrivens), etc, etc, etc...

If Schneider doesn't want to sign a extension the second Lou can actually ink him to a LTC, I'm putting his ass on the block and that's that. This organisation can't afford to lose another player to free agency for nothing... especially when it cost us a 9th overall pick last summer and we'll forfeit a 1st this summer.