Player Discussion: Yanni Gourde

[LTIR Trickery]

In his defense I think I see him with new linemates everytime he touches the damn ice.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Only thing about the Miller trade that I would change is that it was Gourde who went and Miller stayed. Dont think we get a unprotected 1st for him though.

100 agree. I mean the 1st round pick as a return for Miller was a no brainer.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

In his defense I think I see him with new linemates everytime he touches the damn ice.

This is true. Lets check in after 5 games of these new lines

 

[Todd1a]

100 agree. I mean the 1st round pick as a return for Miller was a no brainer.

miller looks great for the canucks gourde looks bad so far

 

[AndreRoy]

100 agree. I mean the 1st round pick as a return for Miller was a no brainer.

IMO moving the high-priced complementary forward who we wouldn’t have the ability to move for another several years was the no-brainer. Keeping Miller over Gourde would have given us significantly more cap flexibility going forward.

 

[Master P]

IMO moving the high-priced complementary forward who we wouldn’t have the ability to move for another several years was the no-brainer. Keeping Miller over Gourde would have given us significantly more cap flexibility going forward.

Isn't the issue with Miller his playoff production? Doesn't only have like 3 career points in the playoffs?

 

[LightningStrikes]

Safe to say his 64 point season was a fluke? Either way, out of the remaining group of "could/should be traded eventually" top-9 pieces of Johnson, Palat, Killorn and him, IMO Gourde is the one with the least impact.

 

[Bozo Nicholson]

Safe to say his 64 point season was a fluke? Either way, out of the remaining group of "could/should be traded eventually" top-9 pieces of Johnson, Palat, Killorn and him, IMO Gourde is the one with the least impact.

What do you think Killorn does that puts him above Gourde?

 

[Sky04]

Safe to say his 64 point season was a fluke? Either way, out of the remaining group of "could/should be traded eventually" top-9 pieces of Johnson, Palat, Killorn and him, IMO Gourde is the one with the least impact.

Not really... Gourde being shuffled around is still about to outproduce Killorn and keep up with a Johnson who is stapled onto Point's wing while blowing Palat out in production. This is the first year in over 2 years Palat has been more effective than Gourde and that's only a 6 game sample size. Not really sure how it's even arguable that he hasn't been superior out of all 4 players the past 2 years. The only 4 players to outscore Gourde over that time is Kucherov, Point, Stamkos and Hedman.

 

[LightningStrikes]

To clarify: I meant to say "least impact so far this season".

 

[Sky04]

To clarify: I meant to say "least impact so far this season".

Yes and I'd say a guy who is our 4th highest scoring forward over the past 2 seasons deserves more than 6 games to be judged...

 

[Sky04]

Isn't the issue with Miller his playoff production? Doesn't only have like 3 career points in the playoffs?

Miller outscored Johnson, Killorn and Gourde in the playoffs during his 2 runs here....

 

[LightningStrikes]

Yes and I'd say a guy who is our 4th highest scoring forward over the past 2 seasons deserves more than 6 games to be judged...

I mean if we're talking this season, there is only this season so far to be judged.

 

[The Macho King]

Miller outscored Johnson, Killorn and Gourde in the playoffs during his 2 runs here....

Miller was really mis-used here. He was never given consistent minutes or linemates, but he produced.

Glad we got a first for him and all of that, but there are a few people I would have liked to send off before him.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Boys we got an unprotected 1st round pick for Miller we should be jumping for joy.

No way Gourde returns that

 

[Sky04]

Boys we got an unprotected 1st round pick for Miller we should be jumping for joy.

No way Gourde returns that

You do know the alternative is having a better roster playing NOW right?

A mid first round pick is a crap shoot and even worse in the hands of the Lightning.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Boys we got an unprotected 1st round pick for Miller we should be jumping for joy.

No way Gourde returns that

Nobody is really upset with the trade. I just think people want to see Gourde be more of a difference maker here after that contract he just signed. Has more to do with that than the Miller trade.

 

[Sky04]

Miller was really mis-used here. He was never given consistent minutes or linemates, but he produced.

Glad we got a first for him and all of that, but there are a few people I would have liked to send off before him.

If anything just to keep his size and skillset which is more unique to the team than having redundant players like Gourde/Johnson.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

miller looks great for the canucks gourde looks bad so far

Right, but we're a week into the season. If by Thanksgiving (20-22 games) he hasn't potted a couple i'd be worried. Right now he at least has 3 helpers in 6 games.

 

[AndreRoy]

Boys we got an unprotected 1st round pick for Miller we should be jumping for joy.

No way Gourde returns that

The Miller trade was fine; the problem is that now Gourde is untradeable due to his full NTC kicking in, he’s not living up to his contract, and said contract is likely to cost us Cirelli or Sergachev next summer. If we’d traded Gourde and kept Miller we could have then traded Miller next summer to free up cap space for our key RFAs.

 

[CupsOverCash]

The Miller trade was fine; the problem is that now Gourde is untradeable due to his full NTC kicking in, he’s not living up to his contract, and said contract is likely to cost us Cirelli or Sergachev next summer. If we’d traded Gourde and kept Miller we could have then traded Miller next summer to free up cap space for our key RFAs.

Id have traded both in hindsight. Not going to complain about Miller being sent for an unprotected 1st. Gourde and his production I think is replaceable. Id have given Gourdes money to Sergachev and Cirelli. Problem solved with those two. Bring up a hungry kid from Syracuse to replace Gourde. Funny cause thats the way Gourde used to be.

 

[Max McBolt]

Nonsense.

Gourde is one of the only players who’s playing hungry.

His point production is not up to par with expectation, but he’a been pretty consistent with his efforts and effectiveness at playing the game the right way.

He was one of the few who had a good game against Ottawa.
Won almost every puck battle he was in, and went to dig it in the corners and take possession away from opposing players.

Get your eyes off your stat sheets boys, Gourde as been playing as hungry as ever.

I was expecting him to have a big game in Montreal, but for some reason the game on homeland territory turned out to be the opposite.
And that Montreal game was not representative of his play to start the season, which as been up to his standard, minus the point production.

Also regarding his contract, the money and term is fair, but the NTC was too much for a non-star player.

 

[AndreRoy]

Nonsense.

Gourde is one of the only players who’s playing hungry.

His point production is not up to par with expectation, but he’a been pretty consistent with his efforts and effectiveness at playing the game the right way.

He was one of the few who had a good game against Ottawa.
Won almost every puck battle he was in, and went to dig it in the corners and take possession away from opposing players.

Get your eyes off your stat sheets boys, Gourde as been playing as hungry as ever.

I was expecting him to have a big game in Montreal, but for some reason the game on homeland territory turned out to be the opposite.
And that Montreal game was not representative of his play to start the season, which as been up to his standard, minus the point production.

Also regarding his contract, the money and term is fair, but the NTC was too much for a non-star player.

Not saying I agree with it but point production is the primary driver of salary for forwards; if Gourde isn’t producing offensively then he’s not worth the contract we gave him.

In any event it’s not so much about Gourde underperforming (though that certainly makes the situation even worse) as it is about his importance relative to the likes of Cirelli and Sergachev and the fact that our inability to move him will likely cost us a more valuable player. He could live up to his deal and that full NTC (and/or our decision not to trade him before it kicked in) would still have been a horrible move.

 

[Max McBolt]

Not saying I agree with it but point production is the primary driver of salary for forwards; if Gourde isn’t producing offensively then he’s not worth the contract we gave him.

In any event it’s not so much about Gourde underperforming (though that certainly makes the situation even worse) as it is about his importance relative to the likes of Cirelli and Sergachev and the fact that our inability to move him will likely cost us a more valuable player. He could live up to his deal and that full NTC (and/or our decision not to trade him before it kicked in) would still have been a horrible move.

I understand and agree to the idea behind your post on a lot of levels.
The importance of contracts off less valuable assets in relation to the potential consequences on more valuable assets like Cirelli and Sergachev.
Great point.

I also agree, to some extent that point production is important in relation to living up to a contract for a forward.
It is also important to take usage into consideration.
Gourde for example has been trusted into being the 3rd C in Point’s absence.
That role is much harder than 2nd line winger.
The coaching staff felt more confortable with Gourde there instead of Johnson.
I don’t think it’s fair to judge Gourde on point production when he started the season playing at a position he is not used to play in the NHL.
It would also not be fair to compare Gourde and Johnson solely based on point production to compare their value to the team.

So where I disagree with the previous contract analysis is putting the blame of said situation only on Gourde’s contract.

Palat
Johnson
Killorn
Gourde
Miller

Those 5 players were roughly making the same amount of money.
It’s a good base to use when comparing them an judging how much value they bring to the team.

Miller has been traded for a $5 Millions relief.

Now if I were to rank the 4 players left as of the value they bring to the team today at roughly the same salary it would go as follow :

1. Palat
2. Gourde
3. Johnson
4. Killorn

Cirelli and Sergachev are definitively more important to this team than any of the aforementioned 4 players (or 5 including Miller).

If Gourde is not worth $5 Millions, then Johnson and Killorn are also not worth their money, and I would look at trading their contracts before trading Gourde’s contract.
The inability to move Gourde’s contract should not be the problem when you have lesser players on the team with roughly the same contract.

 

[Sky04]

Just an FYI - we don't need to protect Gourde in the expansion draft, he has an NTC not an NMC.