News Article: Yakupov on Roy "I was scared of him"

[ThePhoenixx]

Lander played one game under Eakins last season. He wasn't called up until December 21, 2014.

Lander played the entire season basically with Nelson as coach. This was a significant advantage for him that people for some reason don't consider. Coach believed in him, he believed in coach. But that coach is gone. Any advantage from that is gone.

lol Lander "pencilled in" on one of the chronic worst clubs in the league that got this way because it can't recognize useful players and birds in hand from remote prospects and progjects.

Using the Oilers decision making prowess as some sort of evidence has limited credibility.

I actually watch the games. Roy played well here and was a good player. He's played well elsewhere and been a good player. Nothing wrong with him either. You don't spend a decade with an NHL club having something wrong with you or being a questionable NHL player.

You mean the old coaching staff and management.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Forced? nobody truly gets forced, its succumbing to undue influences and allowing yourself to be controlled. Which is one reason why I question that either of these guys are the alpha guys they are made out to be.

Some hands are more easily forced, just saying. Its a battle of will, in the end both Chia and Mclellan lost. Lets not forget either this is until recently an NHL outpost. Not the first spot a person would want to land Pre McDavid.

Yes but that was with the coaching staff and management system in place. Nicholson changed all that. And brought in 2 well respected people in hockey, that makes a difference.

Also BS. You either do what your boss tells you or get fired. They both clearly hate that they got controlled by above and I have 0 doubt it my mind that it won't happen here and that Chia and McLellan will work very well together

Chia was tired of being a pawn and and so did McLellan

 

[Replacement*]

Yes but that was with the coaching staff and management system in place. Nicholson changed all that. And brought in 2 well respected people in hockey, that makes a difference.

Also BS. You either do what your boss tells you or get fired. They both clearly hate that they got controlled by above and I have 0 doubt it my mind that it won't happen here and that Chia and McLellan will work very well together

Chia was tired of being a pawn and and so did McLellan

This defense worked real well at the Nuremburg trials..

I call BS onBS

People can assert themselves creatively in work places much more than they often realize. In many instances such assertion ultimately results in more respect, more mutual respect, and improved work conditions for everybody.

I respect anybody with the gumption to do it. I respect yak for doing it. Respect Souray for doing it. I think we need to dispel this quaint notion that people that speak out are bad trouble people. They're often whistle blowers.

Its only a NA agenda based notion that suggest the yesman approach or get fired. Few people around the world living in free nations tolerate such hegemony so willingly. That you even voice something like tow the line or get fired speaks to how conditioned you are.

ps "having no doubt in your mind" isn't an argument, in fact it suggests that you refuse to even consider n alternate possibility. not that I have an open mind either currently.

Really the current mindset of Oiler nation is wanting to believe. I get that, really I do, but with that is a suspension of disbelief that is both intentful, and perhaps not all that objective.

In otherwards the absolute knee jerk reaction that has occurred in Oiler nation is that McDavid+Chia+Mclellan is a can't miss shot to the stars. Its been fascinating (again) to be viewing this annual right of passage here every summer.

 

[bucks_oil]

i'll take a moment and apologize for my actions yesterday that were out of line. Going through some stuff right now and no excuses, but I was being an ahole.

sorry

Back to the topic this org conditions negativity. As fans we have that as an unfortunate common bond. Which makes for strange times and reactions all around.

My real take. Nelson was more of a free spirit and more averse to following company line than anybody we have hired in coaching or management since. Kreuger was as well. Is that meaningful? perhaps.

With Chia theres suspicion he wasn't his own man in Boston. With Mclellan its known he sided with management over players and was handstrung there as well.

I fear that neither are automatically their own men, in any org run by the quite powerful Daryl Katz. The same Katz who had Bettman on his speed dial getting an arena deal worked through here.

I really think its illusory to think that there really are "bosses" here other than Katz. Ultimately this org answers to Katz and exists for Katz. Its his plaything. A lot of other leadership is window dressing I fear, as its always been during Katz tenure. Nicholsons role to me was figurehead. Almost here for the point of a positivity campaign. Smile a lot, promise a new way of doing business, hire several more people on board, retain incompetents, and act like everything is flushed out and ready to go. Nicholson to me is a positivity yes man. Which concerns me somewhat.

just my take, perhaps deluded.

A lot of stuff thrown at the the wall here. Certainly some of it will suit a future narrative.

I really lose track of who the true villain is in all of this... seemed it was Lowe, then MacT, now I guess we're back to Katz. Shame on him for running his company, which he purchased, with money, and owns it... shame on him for doing as he likes.

An alternative view... I'd argue more in touch with reality, is that Nicholson came in, flushed the system and that the only thing that saved Lowe and MacT is that they were well liked and in both cases, willing to contribute however the new boss saw fit, even in greatly diminished roles. This view would also say that Chiarelli is a man who would have many options to be a GM, and would never accept a patsie job that didn't give him the autonomy he needs. Similarly, MacLellan is a well respected coach, who also would have been in pursuit by a number of teams and yet chose Edmonton because it gave him a chance to mold a young team.

Oh yeah... and I see your point about Nelson. Clearly an AHL coach with a pittance of a salary is much more likely to align with his principles than a guy like MacLellan, having millions in the bank. Clearly MacLellan is a yes-man and Nelson incorruptible and free spirited... because.... um.... you know... that goatee.

 

[Replacement*]

You mean the old coaching staff and management.

I mean the org still owned by Katz with Lowe as some sort of grand poobah, MacT still mysteriously employed. With the latest figurehead punters added in to offer the illusion of meaningful change. Wasn't all that long since Tambo was being declared as that guy and a sure sign nepotism was dead.

maybe it is now. I'll await some returns and more information before concluding that.

 

[Replacement*]

A lot of stuff thrown at the the wall here. Certainly some of it will suit a future narrative.

I really lose track of who the true villain is in all of this... seemed it was Lowe, then MacT, now I guess we're back to Katz. Shame on him for running his company, which he purchased, with money, and owns it... shame on him for doing as he likes.

An alternative view... I'd argue more in touch with reality, is that Nicholson came in, flushed the system and that the only thing that saved Lowe and MacT is that they were well liked and in both cases, willing to contribute however the new boss saw fit, even in greatly diminished roles. This view would also say that Chiarelli is a man who would have many options to be a GM, and would never accept a patsie job that didn't give him the autonomy he needs. Similarly, MacLellan is a well respected coach, who also would have been in pursuit by a number of teams and yet chose Edmonton because it gave him a chance to mold a young team.

Oh yeah... and I see your point about Nelson. Clearly an AHL coach with a pittance of a salary is much more likely to align with his principles than a guy like MacLellan, having millions in the bank. Clearly MacLellan is a yes-man and Nelson incorruptible and free spirited... because.... um.... you know... that goatee.

Wait, what? Sorry, I couldn't get beyond that. What do you mean well liked?

Oh, and the last time the " had many options" narrative was used the team was hiring Eakins as head coach. That's not an argument, its lip service to whatever this org does no matter how perennially poor its performance is. Reality, until actual results that's still the record of this org.

We'll see if yet another flushing cleans this cesspool.

 

[RCee]

How did Yakupov get lost in the discussion? Poor guy.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

This defense worked real well at the Nuremburg trials..

I call BS onBS

People can assert themselves creatively in work places much more than they often realize. In many instances such assertion ultimately results in more respect, more mutual respect, and improved work conditions for everybody.

I respect anybody with the gumption to do it. I respect yak for doing it. Respect Souray for doing it. I think we need to dispel this quaint notion that people that speak out are bad trouble people. They're often whistle blowers.

Its only a NA agenda based notion that suggest the yesman approach or get fired. Few people around the world living in free nations tolerate such hegemony so willingly. That you even voice something like tow the line or get fired speaks to how conditioned you are.

ps "having no doubt in your mind" isn't an argument, in fact it suggests that you refuse to even consider n alternate possibility. not that I have an open mind either currently.

Really the current mindset of Oiler nation is wanting to believe. I get that, really I do, but with that is a suspension of disbelief that is both intentful, and perhaps not all that objective.

In otherwards the absolute knee jerk reaction that has occurred in Oiler nation is that McDavid+Chia+Mclellan is a can't miss shot to the stars. Its been fascinating (again) to be viewing this annual right of passage here every summer.

You also have the knee jerk reaction to think, because Oilers everything must be ****, and the Org must still be horribly wrong no matter how much change there is.

If you were being completely objective what would you see, what do outside fans see.

They see a team that went thru **** and demoted their head honchos to lesser roles had a respected gm who had a hand in (size is often argued) in trading away a young skilled player to run the team.

They then see a highly regarded coach coming off his literal only bad year, mutually terminating his contract with his team and out of all the potential destinations, comes here after leading Canada to gold st world's something the nation has struggled with recently.

They see the org draft McDavid, the player who has the most potential to be a legit legend since Crosby.

They see the org land the hottest free agent defensemen available for reasonable money.

They watch as the Rangers trade us Talbot for a great price much below asking.

We send out Marincin and a bunch of draft picks for Reinhart and Gryba adding size to our defense but maybe paying to much.

They watch interviews and highlights of our stars being actually excited to play hockey again and looking good in off season training.

They watch as 2 vets leave bringing in 2 different vets with styles of play that gives the org a style and vision.

As an outsider looking in completely shows that this team is on a different course and is exciting. Still not playoff great but on a proper trajectory.

 

[Replacement*]

You also have the knee jerk reaction to think, because Oilers everything must be ****, and the Org must still be horribly wrong no matter how much change there is.

If you were being completely objective what would you see, what do outside fans see.

They see a team that went thru **** and demoted their head honchos to lesser roles had a respected gm who had a hand in (size is often argued) in trading away a young skilled player to run the team.

They then see a highly regarded coach coming off his literal only bad year, mutually terminating his contract with his team and out of all the potential destinations, comes here after leading Canada to gold st world's something the nation has struggled with recently.

They see the org draft McDavid, the player who has the most potential to be a legit legend since Crosby.

They see the org land the hottest free agent defensemen available for reasonable money.

They watch as the Rangers trade us Talbot for a great price much below asking.

We send out Marincin and a bunch of draft picks for Reinhart and Gryba adding size to our defense but maybe paying to much.

They watch interviews and highlights of our stars being actually excited to play hockey again and looking good in off season training.

They watch as 2 vets leave bringing in 2 different vets with styles of play that gives the org a style and vision.

As an outsider looking in completely shows that this team is on a different course and is exciting. Still not playoff great but on a proper trajectory.

The outsider views I read about all the time consist of something like this.

"Loser ****ing coilers have 4 top picks and still pathetic org, sink into the bottom of the Earth, save McDavid for center of universe".

i'll offer that your take is no more objective than mine. Your lips are red. Been nipping at the koolaid.



jk around

 

[bucks_oil]

Wait, what? Sorry, I couldn't get beyond that. What do you mean well liked?

Sorry... I can see how that would throw you off. What I mean is... yes their relationship to Katz that kept them in any job at all, albeit in a greatly diminished role. (and perhaps their actual loyalty/competitiveness)

Anyway, this whole Katz lovebird thing. I mean wasn't it also the speculated reason why Horcoff would *never get traded, especially by MacT? I mean he was seen that one time having dinner with the owner! Or did we twist that to... it was a secret favor to Horc so that he could cash out and resign another *highly lucrative contract with Dallas?

You seem to twist these things and retwist annually. Is it really that hard to admit that maybe we were just a bad team, with a bad scouting department that was miles away from a turn-around?

I mean to me the facts are just much simpler. I don't need a tinfoil hat:
2006: a really good team, assembled by Lowe gets dealt a crushing blow with Pronger leaving
2007 to 2008: Lowe can't let it go, chases fish, feuds with Smyth... taking it personally and possibly enabled by a competitive new owner with a wallet.
2008: Lowe gets convinced (told) to move upstairs. Tambo, fresh blood brought in to rebuild
2013: Tambo proves to be effective of doing not much. His UFA's don't buttress a young and crumbling roster. Assets received in Lowe's Pronger and Smyth trades amount to Eberle and not much else. Tambo must realize this in part and does revamp scouting, part of which may help, but not in his lifetime
2013 - 2015: MacT gives it a go, signs (perhaps overpays) for the some of the best available talent across two generally weak UFA pools. He overestimates his abilities and change can't happen fast enough
2015: Katz patience wears out, not one to tarnish the name of Lowe and MacT (they are after all part of the BRAND that he owns), he offers them diplomacy positions to save face. Leadership change top to bottom. New President, new POHO, New GM, New Coach, New assistant coach, new head scout, new AHL coach. EVERYTHING NEW. Oh yeah and McDavid.

 

[s7ark]

This thread is very off topic. I am going to close it down.