Wow Kuznetsov has arrived

[Laineux]

matthews is easily better than kuznetsov. He is a product of ovechkin.

Kuznetsov is 100% the driver of that line, not Ovechkin.

 

[HTFN]

matthews is easily better than kuznetsov. He is a product of ovechkin.

Not even a little bit.

 

[NYCGroundhog]

... give your head a shake.

Really, stick him on the same garbage lines he was playing on 2 years ago when Backstrom was centering Ovi. He wasn't doing anything without an elite wing.

 

[DDRhockey]

Kuznetsov is 100% the driver of that line, not Ovechkin.

wrong. this is kuznetsovs first playoffs with ovechkin and it shows. He cant play without him.

Not even a little bit.

yes I am right so you cant stop argue.

 

[mad4comp]

matthews is easily better than kuznetsov. He is a product of ovechkin.

Kuznetsov runs the offense on the first line... not ovechkin.

 

[DDRhockey]

Kuznetsov runs the offense on the first line... not ovechkin.

oh but when backstrom played with ovechkin and set him up left and right, he was a product of ovechkin. Classic hf double standards.

 

[HTFN]

Really, stick him on the same garbage lines he was playing on 2 years ago when Backstrom was centering Ovi. He wasn't doing anything without an elite wing.

You said at the moment. He's not the same player then that he is now, it's this new thing called development and growing as a hockey player.

You could play him with Vrana and Wilson instead and he'd be doing just fine.

 

[mad4comp]

oh but when backstrom played with ovechkin and set him up left and right, he was a product of ovechkin. Classic hf double standards.

Why did you quote me and then pull that line out of your behind? It has nothing to do with what I posted... (nor have I ever said that).

 

[HTFN]

oh but when backstrom played with ovechkin and set him up left and right, he was a product of ovechkin. Classic hf double standards.

Not really, because the arguments were mostly the same.

Capitals fans had to tell people that Backstrom was a genuinely elite player and not just scooping up easy assists because Ovechkin was on his wing.

And that's back when Ovechkin was much more self-reliant and scoring on the rush, too. Now Kuznetsov does some of the neutral zone rushing that Ovechkin used to do, because Ovechkin's not as quick anymore and Kuznetsov's hands are better. But yeah, the guy who's constantly going 1v3 at the blueline with possession and creating space isn't driving play on the line at all.

 

[NYCGroundhog]

You said at the moment. He's not the same player then that he is now, it's this new thing called development and growing as a hockey player.

You could play him with Vrana and Wilson instead and he'd be doing just fine.

He'd be fine, but he sure as hell wouldn't be a top 10 Center in the league without a HOF wing. He wasn't for years and since Backstrom has had to center Oshie's line, he's not exactly putting up the production that he used to.

I will give the Caps credit on that point...they're coming across as a lot more selfless this year and making their lines work instead of pushing for points.

 

[NYCGroundhog]

You could play him with Vrana and Wilson instead and he'd be doing just fine.

Go ahead, give Trotz a call and try this concept.

It's really easy to shoot out ideas that are so dumb that they'll never be tried in a game situation.

 

[HTFN]

Go ahead, give Trotz a call and try this concept.

It's really easy to shoot out ideas that are so dumb that they'll never be tried in a game situation.

If Ovechkin were to go to the locker room for an equipment repair or injury, it'd be Vrana or Burakovsky replacing him. Or if there were some reason to re-connect the Ovechkin-Backstrom-Oshie line, that's who you'd be left with.

I'm not sure what's so stupid about changing one player out on the top line.

 

[NYCGroundhog]

If Ovechkin were to go to the locker room for an equipment repair or injury, it'd be Vrana or Burakovsky replacing him. Or if there were some reason to re-connect the Ovechkin-Backstrom-Oshie line, that's who you'd be left with.

I'm not sure what's so stupid about changing one player out on the top line.

You know, aside from the fact that the player you're swapping out is Ovi.

 

[NYCGroundhog]

If Ovechkin were to go to the locker room for an equipment repair or injury, it'd be Vrana or Burakovsky replacing him. Or if there were some reason to re-connect the Ovechkin-Backstrom-Oshie line, that's who you'd be left with.

I'm not sure what's so stupid about changing one player out on the top line.

Why exactly do you think they don't run the Ovi-Backstrom-Timothy Jimothy line anymore? I assume it was because they were a consistent failure in the playoffs and they were trying to vary the lines to make the lower ones stronger instead of 1 great top and a mediocre 2nd. It seemed to have worked.

 

[HTFN]

You know, aside from the fact that the player you're swapping out is Ovi.

Yeah, I guess to make the point that Kuznetsov would be just fine without Ovechkin on his line, I should have made a hypothetical line that still had Ovechkin on it. Silly me.

 

[NYCGroundhog]

Yeah, I guess to make the point that Kuznetsov would be just fine without Ovechkin on his line, I should have made a hypothetical line that still had Ovechkin on it. Silly me.

Call up Trotz, tell him to run the Ovi-Backstrom-Oshie line, followed by Kuznetsov centering Vrana and Wilson. Let me know how that goes.

They did a lot of iterations of that, a lot, and it didn't work for years.

 

[third man in]

He'd be fine, but he sure as hell wouldn't be a top 10 Center in the league without a HOF wing. He wasn't for years and since Backstrom has had to center Oshie's line, he's not exactly putting up the production that he used to.

Two thoughts here. It's not like other top 10 centers are playing with scrubs. Most of them have elite type wingers they're centering.

Backstrom wasn't given much to work with this year. There wasn't a clear 2LW this season and Oshie had a rough season. He was concussed and was really struggling until the last 15 games of the season. Backstrom still scored 70+ points.

Kuznetsov has been amazing all year. He's had other good seasons but his consistency has improved and he's hit another level this year.

 

[HTFN]

Why exactly do you think they don't run the Ovi-Backstrom-Timothy Jimothy line anymore? I assume it was because they were a consistent failure in the playoffs and they were trying to vary the lines to make the lower ones stronger instead of 1 great top and a mediocre 2nd. It seemed to have worked.

You assumed wrong, Kuznetsov unseated Backstrom at 1C because he played better. Oshie essentially got "demoted" with Backstrom because they fit better together, and all of the numbers were screaming that Tom Wilson was a remarkably effective player when paired with Ovechkin (and he's always hinted at good chemistry with Kuznetsov).

Backstrom and Oshie are natural cycle players, Ovechkin/Kuznetsov/Wilson are great rushers, and Kuznetsov is the key cog in how that all functions. Ovechkin shoots, Wilson fetches, and Kuznetsov creates most of the rest.

 

[third man in]

Call up Trotz, tell him to run the Ovi-Backstrom-Oshie line, followed by Kuznetsov centering Vrana and Wilson. Let me know how that goes.

They did a lot of iterations of that, a lot, and it didn't work for years.

Vrana is a rookie and Wilson used to be a 4th liner. So you could see the reason they weren't running that line for "years" right?

 

[Over the volcano]

Has Kuznetsov played better hockey than he has right now?

I'm so impressed with him. He has clearly taken the next step. He's now a superstar in his own right. He's the one driving play on his line. He's the best player on the Caps and clearly the heir to Ovechkin's throne in Washington.

7.8m a year for him is a steal.

He's taken it to another level for sure - but that last sentence is pretty funny.

If you have to pay 7.8 million you aren't stealing.

 

[NYCGroundhog]

You know, all the Caps needed to do to make me no despise the idea of Caps winning the Cup was get rid of 1 player.

Unlike a lot of Pens fans, I don't really hate the team. I think Orpik is overpaid, but Nisky and Carlson on the back end are solid and Holtby is an amazing goalie. I do hate hearing everyone on the team play the victim card because their goon that plays to hurt people got rightfully suspended, and should be suspended more often.

 

[NYCGroundhog]

Vrana is a rookie and Wilson used to be a 4th liner. So you could see the reason they weren't running that line for "years" right?

Tom Wilson is still a 4th liner, regardless of whether he plays with Ovi & and Kuznetsov.

 

[NYCGroundhog]

Two thoughts here. It's not like other top 10 centers are playing with scrubs. Most of them have elite type wingers they're centering.

Backstrom wasn't given much to work with this year. There wasn't a clear 2LW this season and Oshie had a rough season. He was concussed and was really struggling until the last 15 games of the season. Backstrom still scored 70+ points.

Kuznetsov has been amazing all year. He's had other good seasons but his consistency has improved and he's hit another level this year.

I'm not sure you've watched a lot of Penguins games if you don't think that other top 10 Cs aren't playing with mediocre talent. They used to trot out Crosby with Brian Gibbons on his wing.

 

[HTFN]

Tom Wilson is still a 4th liner, regardless of whether he plays with Ovi & and Kuznetsov.

Oh, I see.

So you're just not capable of evaluating hockey talent.

 

[Alex K]

Also, he's not a top 10 Center now and not even the best center on his team:
McDavid, Crosby, Malkin, Matthews, Seguin, Bergeron, Tavares, Backstrom, Stamkos, and Kopitar are all better at the moment and that was 10.

He's getting there, but I'm having issues putting him the the conversation for Top 10.

Lol at Matthews (he's not as good yet) and Stamkos (he's not as good anymore). Tavares and Seguin are arguably as good. Backstrom and Bergeron are better defensively but not even close offensively.