Dreger: Wouldn't be surprised if NJ/PHI picks are in play

[mercury]

It really isn't that embarrassing. We're seeing opposite ends of the spectrum here - you calling the offer embarrassing, and the other poster calling it generous.

Agreed.

It's not that unreasonable to believe that Tanev will be better than the #1/#2 player. For example, I would take Tanev over Murray any day. Age is the only real argument there.

That is pretty unreasonable. Better than #5 is reasonable. The chances of Tanev being as good or better than Patrick/Hischier are not that high.

So Tanev + 5th overall could easily have more value than #1/#2 overall, especially given this draft year and the lack of elite talent.

I see why parties on both sides would reject the offer though, based on positional strength and rebuilding teams that need younger players. But in a vacuum, the value really isn't far off.

Context is key. And I said #2 AND MacDonald's garbage contract for #5 and Tanev. Does that favor the Flyers in a vacuum? I would say yes. Would it take something that favors the Flyers in a vacuum to make them even consider trading the pick? Also yes.

 

[The Madrigal]

It really isn't that embarrassing. We're seeing opposite ends of the spectrum here - you calling the offer embarrassing, and the other poster calling it generous.

It's not that unreasonable to believe that Tanev will be better than the #1/#2 player. For example, I would take Tanev over Murray any day. Age is the only real argument there.

So Tanev + 5th overall could easily have more value than #1/#2 overall, especially given this draft year and the lack of elite talent.

I see why parties on both sides would reject the offer though, based on positional strength and rebuilding teams that need younger players. But in a vacuum, the value really isn't far off.

The drop off from 1-2 to 5 in this draft is huge. Listen to anyone in the know about this draft, Nico and Nolan are head and shoulders above the rest. Vancouver also got a 2nd round pick in this draft in the proposal.

A good 2nd pairing defenseman who is 3 years away from free agency and being 30 years old isn't worth a 2nd round pick AND the difference between 1-2 and 5 in this draft, not even close.

I stand by comments, it's an embarrassing proposal.

 

[The Madrigal]

Agreed.




That is pretty unreasonable. Better than #5 is reasonable. The chances of Tanev being as good or better than Patrick/Hischier are not that high.




Context is key. And I said #2 AND MacDonald's garbage contract for #5 and Tanev. Does that favor the Flyers in a vacuum? I would say yes. Would it take something that favors the Flyers in a vacuum to make them even consider trading the pick? Also yes.

The trade proposal I am talking about was made by a Canucks fan. The offer was:

NJ / Philly gets
Tanev
5th pick

Vancouver gets
1st or 2nd pick
2nd round pick in 2017

 

[mercury]

The drop off from 1-2 to 5 in this draft is huge. Listen to anyone in the know about this draft, Nico and Nolan are head and shoulders above the rest. Vancouver also got a 2nd round pick in this draft in the proposal.

A good 2nd pairing defenseman who is 3 years away from free agency and being 30 years old isn't worth a 2nd round pick AND the difference between 1-2 and 5 in this draft, not even close.

I stand by comments, it's an embarrassing proposal.

I am not adding a 2nd for that, either.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

The drop off from 1-2 to 5 in this draft is huge. Listen to anyone in the know about this draft, Nico and Nolan are head and shoulders above the rest. Vancouver also got a 2nd round pick in this draft in the proposal.

A good 2nd pairing defenseman who is 3 years away from free agency and being 30 years old isn't worth a 2nd round pick AND the difference between 1-2 and 5 in this draft, not even close.

I stand by comments, it's an embarrassing proposal.

I don't know the last time a draft was called "weak", but I'd assume it was 2012. Yakupov and Murray are both much worse than Tanev.
2011 wasn't great either with RNH and Landeskog. I'd say they're on par with Tanev, if not less valuable.
Not to mention Hall was just traded for Larsson, not too far off what Tanev would be valued at.

Not sure if this draft is comparable to those listed above, but the fact that analysts and scouts have formed a consensus opinion that it does not have any elite talent is a bit concerning.

I do agree that the 2nd round pick is greedy.

I also believe that this is the type of trade that looks egregiously bad if that #1 or #2 overall pick turns into a mediocre 2nd/3rd line player. Whereas, if they fulfill their potential (realistically, let's say 60-65 points), it looks like a fair trade (based on the #5 overall being a useful player as well).

Time will tell, but I don't think the offer was really that bad. Have you spent much time on here? This proposal was like an 8/10 on the reasonableness scale based on the aggregate of what people post here...

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

The trade proposal I am talking about was made by a Canucks fan. The offer was:

NJ / Philly gets
Tanev
5th pick

Vancouver gets
1st or 2nd pick
2nd round pick in 2017

Yeah there were Tanev proposal before that, wires are starting to get crossed here.

 

[TOGuy14]

Philly makes more sense to me than NJ. The Devils should take Patrick.

Really? I was thinking the opposite.

NJ needs help all over the ice, Philly has a stud core of young D and some decent forwards already. The "elite" forward pick makes sense for them, NJD trading down for more picks would be best for their current status.

 

[NotYou]

What an absolutely meaningless comment. embarrassing

 

[BrindamoursNose]

In other news: Water is wet.

 

[The Madrigal]

I don't know the last time a draft was called "weak", but I'd assume it was 2012. Yakupov and Murray are both much worse than Tanev.
2011 wasn't great either with RNH and Landeskog. I'd say they're on par with Tanev, if not less valuable.
Not to mention Hall was just traded for Larsson, not too far off what Tanev would be valued at.

Not sure if this draft is comparable to those listed above, but the fact that analysts and scouts have formed a consensus opinion that it does not have any elite talent is a bit concerning.

I do agree that the 2nd round pick is greedy.

I also believe that this is the type of trade that looks egregiously bad if that #1 or #2 overall pick turns into a mediocre 2nd/3rd line player. Whereas, if they fulfill their potential (realistically, let's say 60-65 points), it looks like a fair trade (based on the #5 overall being a useful player as well).

Time will tell, but I don't think the offer was really that bad. Have you spent much time on here? This proposal was like an 8/10 on the reasonableness scale based on the aggregate of what people post here...

I don't think Tanev and 5 for 2 is an embarrassing offer. I don't think it makes any sense for the Flyers and I wouldn't do it, but it's not horrible. Adding in a 2nd round pick though, AND then going on to say "I am being really generous here" as if it is some great can't miss offer is what makes it embarrassing.

People need to understand context. Trades are about more than value alone. A trade needs to make sense for both teams involved. That trade makes zero sense for the Flyers. Furthermore, short of someone overpaying it makes zero sense for the Flyers or Devils to deal the 1st or 2nd pick in this draft.

This is what kills me. There are a few Canucks and Avs fans who are upset about losing the lottery coming up with these trade proposals when they are ignoring the context that these teams have zero motivation to move the picks unless someone blows them away with an offer.

 

[135ace]

So Tanev + 5th overall could easily have more value than #1/#2 overall, especially given this draft year and the lack of elite talent.

Uhh, this offer is garbage and so is the logic. By your logic Vancouver should trade 5OA to NJ for Jon Merrill and a 2nd rounder. I mean this is a weak draft so it's very likely that Merrill ends up being better than whomever is picked at 5OA plus it's also possible that NJ's 2nd rounder ends up being better than 5OA...don't forget it's a weak draft...and it's very likely that somebody in the 2nd round will be better than 5OA...hell it's even possible that a 3rd rounder ends up being better than 5OA so you're really getting an amazing deal here. You should thank Shero if he offered you Merrill and a 2nd rounder...it's a pretty damn amazing deal for Vancouver as NJ's clearly overpaying.

 

[Jonas1235]

Ovechkin for 3rd overall plus Klingberg

 

[njdevil26]

There's no chance the Devils trade the pick. Scott Gomez is the only legit playmaking #1 center this franchise has EVER had. It's been top of the NEEDS list every season. Come on down Nico or Nolan.

 

[Lindys Lazy Eye]

Im intoxicated and want to play armchair GM.

McKinnon + 4th overall

For

1st overall.

 

[The Madrigal]

There's no chance the Devils trade the pick. Scott Gomez is the only legit playmaking #1 center this franchise has EVER had. It's been top of the NEEDS list every season. Come on down Nico or Nolan.

Any word on which direction they are leaning right now? I like Nico for the Flyers because I would prefer the more naturally skilled player but I would be extremely happy to get either one.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Im intoxicated and want to play armchair GM.

McKinnon + 4th overall

For

1st overall.

I'll give you 2nd overall + Sanheim for that same package from the Avalanche.

 

[njdevil26]

Any word on which direction they are leaning right now? I like Nico for the Flyers because I would prefer the more naturally skilled player but I would be extremely happy to get either one.

Something tells me Patrick is the guy.

It's something that has flown completely under the radar, but since Shero has taken over, this team has become remarkably North American. Josefson and Zacha are the only non-North Americans on the team and Josefson may he gone after this season.

Someone posted a summary of Patrick's injuries and that did make me a little nervous...

 

[The Madrigal]

Im intoxicated and want to play armchair GM.

McKinnon + 4th overall

For

1st overall.

Good luck with that. Avs fans don't think the 1st or 2nd pick is worth MacKinnon alone, let alone with their 4th overall pick thrown in. I was told by one fan (who still refuses to address my retort) that Nico and Nolan have "no chance of ever being nearly as good as MacKinnon."

 

[Tripod]

Im intoxicated and want to play armchair GM.

McKinnon + 4th overall

For

1st overall.

Avs never offer that.

 

[Lindys Lazy Eye]

I'll give you 2nd overall + Sanheim for that same package from the Avalanche.

So have the Devils and Flyers swap picks and throw in Sanheim?

Oh that is tempting.

 

[The Madrigal]

Something tells me Patrick is the guy.

It's something that has flown completely under the radar, but since Shero has taken over, this team has become remarkably North American. Josefson and Zacha are the only non-North Americans on the team and Josefson may he gone after this season.

Someone posted a summary of Patrick's injuries and that did make me a little nervous...

Thanks.

Maybe I am wrong but I think if Patrick doesn't have that injury history he is probably the consensus number 1 overall pick. As you said, the injury history is a legitimate concern, he is one hell of a player though.

 

[The Madrigal]

Avs never offer that.

Agreed. I personally wouldn't trade the 2nd pick for MacKinnon straight up though. I think the value is probably fair but in the salary cap era I will take my chances on Nico or Nolan than take on a 6.3 million cap hit for a talented player with upside who has only been a 50 point forward through 4 seasons however.

 

[njdevil26]

Thanks.

Maybe I am wrong but I think if Patrick doesn't have that injury history he is probably the consensus number 1 overall pick. As you said, the injury history is a legitimate concern, he is one hell of a player though.

My other reason for thinking that Patrick is the guy is that there was a lot of talk about the team not being tough enough and not having enough heart after the season was over. I feel like that sets Shero up to pick the player that is being touted as a good two way forward as opposed to the naturally talented Nico. I would be happy with either though.

 

[The Madrigal]

My other reason for thinking that Patrick is the guy is that there was a lot of talk about the team not being tough enough and not having enough heart after the season was over. I feel like that sets Shero up to pick the player that is being touted as a good two way forward as opposed to the naturally talented Nico. I would be happy with either though.

From what I have read and seen of both players I feel like it's similar to choosing from a prime Jonathan Toews or Henrik Zetterberg. You really can't go wrong either way I would just prefer the more naturally skilled player without the injury history.

 

[njdevil26]

From what I have read and seen of both players I feel like it's similar to choosing from a prime Jonathan Toews or Henrik Zetterberg. You really can't go wrong either way I would just prefer the more naturally skilled player without the injury history.

Yeah but if we're talking about the Flyers, don't they have a prerequisite that whoever they choose must enjoy getting suspended and being an overall jerk?

I kid, I kid.