Speculation: Would you give Duchene 8M x 7 years in free agency?

Would you sign Duchene to a 7 year deal with an AAV of 8M?


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Guns n Roses

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Feb 26, 2019
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"Domi sucks, he's just another Shaw"



"Duchene sucks, he's just another Drouin"

Duchene clearly sucks.

He only has:

4 GP _ 3 G _ 4 A _ 7 P +5

Not good enough.

Drouin on the other hand has TONS of potential apparently.. potential to piss off every player on his team with his unwillingness to battle hard.
 

Habs Halifax

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Jul 11, 2016
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Those of you who don't want to sign Duchene for 7 years at $8M will be looking back in 2 or 3 years from now with regrets. Duchene's skills fit our team strategy. The issue is some think he has to lead our team and this is the problem. We are simply adding a top 6 talent and someone who can play center while we wait for Kotkaniemi and Poehling to mature into top 6 or top 9 centers who have an impact on the game. When that day happens, Duchene can move to wing and shelter them. Signing him is insurance at center and he fits.

Saying no to Duchene cause you think a better option will come our way is weird. Didn't we play that game with Radulov when we lost him?

$8M AAV will not look bad in 3 years from now. Just like when we though $7.5M was too much for Radulov and we let him walk in 2017.
 

robicgi

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Oct 17, 2018
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Those of you who don't want to sign Duchene for 7 years at $8M will be looking back in 2 or 3 years from now with regrets. Duchene's skills fit our team strategy. The issue is some think he has to lead our team and this is the problem. We are simply adding a top 6 talent and someone who can play center while we wait for Kotkaniemi and Poehling to mature into top 6 or top 9 centers who have an impact on the game. When that day happens, Duchene can move to wing and shelter them. Signing him is insurance at center and he fits.

Saying no to Duchene cause you think a better option will come our way is weird. Didn't we play that game with Radulov when we lost him?

$8M AAV will not look bad in 3 years from now. Just like when we though $7.5M was too much for Radulov and we let him walk in 2017.

No doubt Duchene is a good player but IMO we are in real trouble moving forward if we start giving out 8M to 55-60 pt players. Even if he hits 65 or 70 i just dont see him as a need and even though he is an upgrade right now i would much rather look to upgrade the D.
If the Habs sign Duchene i have a feeling he will get ripped by fans and media when he puts up Danault numbers and we will look back at it like we do Gomez.
We both see regrets in 2 or 3 years we just see those regrets differently.
IMO in no way is Duchene worth 8M or maybe even more. Some team will bite im sure but if we were to sign Duchene even with the cap going up i see it as a major mistake. To me he is more a type of player i would add at the deadline to make a push not to invest in for 7 yrs. If we sign him i really hope im wrong.
 

Habs Halifax

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No doubt Duchene is a good player but IMO we are in real trouble moving forward if we start giving out 8M to 55-60 pt players. Even if he hits 65 or 70 i just dont see him as a need and even though he is an upgrade right now i would much rather look to upgrade the D.
If the Habs sign Duchene i have a feeling he will get ripped by fans and media when he puts up Danault numbers and we will look back at it like we do Gomez.
We both see regrets in 2 or 3 years we just see those regrets differently.
IMO in no way is Duchene worth 8M or maybe even more. Some team will bite im sure but if we were to sign Duchene even with the cap going up i see it as a major mistake. To me he is more a type of player i would add at the deadline to make a push not to invest in for 7 yrs. If we sign him i really hope im wrong.

Duchene is not a for sure 55-60 pts player. Plus, a player at $8M AAV in 2 or 3 years from now is equal to a $6.5M player today. Adjustments need to be made for inflation or you will be left behind and looking back with regrets in 2 or 3 years from now.

We have a safe $6M - $8M of cap space. If Duchene is interested in signing a deal that works for him and the Habs, saying no is not smart IMO. His speed and skill game fits our team strategy.
 

robicgi

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Oct 17, 2018
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Duchene is not a for sure 55-60 pts player. Plus, a player at $8M AAV in 2 or 3 years from now is equal to a $6.5M player today. Adjustments need to be made for inflation or you will be left behind and looking back with regrets in 2 or 3 years from now.

We have a safe $6M - $8M of cap space. If Duchene is interested in signing a deal that works for him and the Habs, saying no is not smart IMO. His speed and skill game fits our team strategy.

I get that there is no guarentee Duchene is only a 55 to 60 pt player but he is approaching 30 and throughout his career has only produced at that level. He could regress as well as its only 3 years ago he was at 41 pts in 77 games. If we signed him at 8 or 8.5 and he put up 41 pts here or less it would prob be the worst signing we ever made. And even if he put up 70 i just see it as us with 3 2nd line centers with 2 maybe 1b centers (Domi/Duchene/Danault) and no room for youth all the while not making us much better. There are too many questions with Duchene for me. He has the skillset to be great no doubt but at 28 i dont see vast improvements over his career numbers and if he ends up being a 40 pt to 50 pt player here which could happen just as easily as him putting up 70 then we would be set back for another 5 plus years as he would be unmovable. Risk is not worth the reward IMO .
 

Habs Halifax

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I get that there is no guarentee Duchene is only a 55 to 60 pt player but he is approaching 30 and throughout his career has only produced at that level. He could regress as well as its only 3 years ago he was at 41 pts in 77 games. If we signed him at 8 or 8.5 and he put up 41 pts here or less it would prob be the worst signing we ever made. And even if he put up 70 i just see it as us with 3 2nd line centers with 2 maybe 1b centers (Domi/Duchene/Danault) and no room for youth all the while not making us much better. There are too many questions with Duchene for me. He has the skillset to be great no doubt but at 28 i dont see vast improvements over his career numbers and if he ends up being a 40 pt to 50 pt player here which could happen just as easily as him putting up 70 then we would be set back for another 5 plus years as he would be unmovable. Risk is not worth the reward IMO .

Signing Duchene for 7 years would be from age 28-34/35. (Birth date is Jan). He is one of the youngest UFA's you can sign. What UFA do you know that is not approaching 30?

I think you want Duchene at AAV value from the past and I get that but it don't work that way with UFA's and a rising cap that has a larger inflation rate than previous years. I get all the concerns you bring up but if you pass on Duchene, who you spending the $8M in cap space on if you want to get that picky?

Would you pass on re-singing Price to $10.5M AAV cause you wanted him at $9M? Are we going to let Domi walk cause we want him at $7M, not $8M? What about Subban? I wanted him at $8M but we had to pay $9M
 

robicgi

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Oct 17, 2018
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Signing Duchene for 7 years would be from age 28-34/35. (Birth date in in Jan). He is one of the youngest UFA's you can sign. What UFA do you know that is not approaching 30?

I think you want Duchene at AAV value from the past. It don't work that way. I get all the concerns you bring up but if you pass on Duchene. Who you spending the $8M in cap space on if you want to get that picky?

Im not basing my opinion of Duchene on past caps at all. Duchene has skill and i get that but at 8M a year its overpaying based off of his career production. If you look through his career stats they are not stats of a 8M a year player .Im all for adding skill to the team as well and i get that but if we pay guys with Duchenes numbers that much i see us in a bad spot going forward especially as it still leaves us with the same holes we have had the past couple of seasons.

As for what i would do with the cap space its tough because i would not want to spend just for the sake of spending but i would hate to sit on that space for another year. I would much rather use the space to upgrade our D and backup as IMO those are the areas which hurt us the most this year.

Also before this past year i may have taken Duchene as we had a bleak looking centerline but after this year with the additions of KK and Poeling and Domi breaking out and Danault proving he can be a great shut down C i dont see the need of a Duchene type player.
 

Habs Halifax

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Im not basing my opinion of Duchene on past caps at all. Duchene has skill and i get that but at 8M a year its overpaying based off of his career production. If you look through his career stats they are not stats of a 8M a year player .Im all for adding skill to the team as well and i get that but if we pay guys with Duchenes numbers that much i see us in a bad spot going forward especially as it still leaves us with the same holes we have had the past couple of seasons.

As for what i would do with the cap space its tough because i would not want to spend just for the sake of spending but i would hate to sit on that space for another year. I would much rather use the space to upgrade our D and backup as IMO those are the areas which hurt us the most this year.

Also before this past year i may have taken Duchene as we had a bleak looking centerline but after this year with the additions of KK and Poeling and Domi breaking out and Danault proving he can be a great shut down C i dont see the need of a Duchene type player.

Fair. Show me your plans of where you use the $8M cap space if not spend on Duchene?
 

LaP

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Jun 27, 2012
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Danault on the first line for sure.... Just to annoy a certain Danault hater around here.

There's no such thing as Danault haters. Everyone around here know hockey enough to realize he's a very solid two way center. There just people who are not MB groupies and who realize he's playing way too much and while he can be a 2B center he's certainly not a guy who should be a de facto top 6 center on a contending team. He's ideally a 3rd line center who can play on the pk and protect leads at the end of the game and help in the top 6 when there's injuries. He can be a 2nd line center but only if the rest of the top 6 is better than the average offensively speaking specially on the PP.
 

Habs Halifax

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There's no such thing as Danault haters. Everyone around here know hockey enough to realize he's a very solid two way center. There just people who are not MB groupies and who realize he's playing way too much and while he can be a 2B center he's certainly not a guy who should be a de facto top 6 center on a contending team. He's ideally a 3rd line center who can play on the pk and protect leads at the end of the game and help in the top 6 when there's injuries. He can be a 2nd line center but only if the rest of the top 6 is better than the average offensively speaking specially on the PP.

If you call Danault a 3rd line center after the year he just had, I think this might border the hate line. Call him a middle 2C guy and that is fair. The only way I consider Danault a 3C is on a cup contending roster and a very solid top 9
 

LaP

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If you call Danault a 3rd line center after the year he just had, I think this might border the hate line. Call him a middle 2C guy and that is fair. The only way I consider Danault a 3C is on a cup contending roster and a very solid top 9

That's exactly what i said ... i'm puzzled did you even read my post? I said he's a 2B and should ideally not be a top 6 on a cup contending team. I'll quote myself "Ideally a 3rd line center". Ideal to me means cup winner. If this is not your ideal then well ...
 
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Habs Halifax

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That's exactly what i said ... i'm puzzled did you even read my post? I said he's a 2B and should ideally not be a top 6 on a cup contending team. I'll quote myself "Ideally a 3rd line center". Ideal to me means cup winner. If this is not your ideal then well ...

I started the sentence with "if".
 

Habs

We should have drafted Michkov
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Duchene wants to play in Nashville , not here. I wouldn't touch a UFA that has his heart set on another city.
 

Scriptor

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Jan 1, 2014
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If you call Danault a 3rd line center after the year he just had, I think this might border the hate line. Call him a middle 2C guy and that is fair. The only way I consider Danault a 3C is on a cup contending roster and a very solid top 9

Even then, he could be a two-way shutdown C with top-6 minutes while an offensive 3rd line takes advantage of weaker match-ups to rack up even more points. Slightly less ice time for them (the offensive third line), but with better opportunities to expose opponents, would easily compensate for the lesser ice time.

Besides, Danault could continue to see little PP minutes and those could be given to a mixture of danault,s wingers and the 1st and 3rd line players on one of the two PP waves.

I honestly think that the mistake some are making is that they look at the Danault line as an offensive line in an archaic model of the past where teams had two offensive lines, a checking line and an energy line.

With teams relying more on their top-9 for balanced offensive production (those that expect to go deep in the playoffs, at least), the line of Tatar - Danault - Gallagher could continue to handle opponents' best lines while two other lines were given more offensive missions against lesser competition.

People forget that Danrult's line had a +48 goal differential while playing primarily against opponents' top lines and having a higher D-zone start percentage while doing so.

When Danault's line was on the ice, it basically scored more than the Crosby, Ovechkin, McDavid, Matthews, Tavares, McKinnon, etc. competition that it faced. How much better than that does it get? Galchenyuk, for example, even when he played C and had offensive flurries, still finished with a negative goal differential. That means that opponents scored more goals than we did when Galchenyuk was on the ice.

Most would surely claim that Galchenyuk had better offensive instincts than Danault (and with reason), but would that justify Galchenyuk playing top minutes against top opponents while we were scoring less than the team facing us did when he was on the ice?

People should just stop equating Danault playing top-6 minutes at even strength (or even the most minutes for a Montreal C while 5 on 5) with that of taking on the prime offensive role. Even then, I'd say looking at his mission that way would be viewed as positive since 48 goals MORE than the opponent, when a great team scores 300 goals, is huge! It also means that the main cannons on opposing teams were not scoring as much against us as they might be against other teams.

Slagging or marginalizing Danault's contribution to his line and to the team this season is plain and simple demagoguery and completely misinformed.

Nothing prevents Montreal from having a second offensive line with the Domi line, beyond the Danault line, even of Danault's line continues to get top-6 minutes against the opponents' best players.

How difficult is this concept to grasp, really? For some, it seems to be an insurmountable hill to climb.
 

Habs Halifax

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Even then, he could be a two-way shutdown C with top-6 minutes while an offensive 3rd line takes advantage of weaker match-ups to rack up even more points. Slightly less ice time for them (the offensive third line), but with better opportunities to expose opponents, would easily compensate for the lesser ice time.

Besides, Danault could continue to see little PP minutes and those could be given to a mixture of danault,s wingers and the 1st and 3rd line players on one of the two PP waves.

I honestly think that the mistake some are making is that they look at the Danault line as an offensive line in an archaic model of the past where teams had two offensive lines, a checking line and an energy line.

With teams relying more on their top-9 for balanced offensive production (those that expect to go deep in the playoffs, at least), the line of Tatar - Danault - Gallagher could continue to handle opponents' best lines while two other lines were given more offensive missions against lesser competition.

People forget that Danrult's line had a +48 goal differential while playing primarily against opponents' top lines and having a higher D-zone start percentage while doing so.

When danrult's line was on the ice, it basically scored more than the Crosby, Ovechkin, McDavid, Matthews, Tavares, McKinnon, etc. competition that it faced. How much better than that does it get? Galchenyuk, for example, even when he played C and had offensive flurries, still finished with a negative goal differential. That means that opponents scored more goals than we did when Galchenyuk was on the ice.

Most would surely claim that Galchenyuk had better offensive instincts than Danault (and with reason), but would that justify Galchenyuk playing top minutes against top opponents while we were scoring less than the team facing us did when he was on the ice?

People should just stop equating Danault playing top-6 minutes at even strength (or even the most minutes for a Montreal C while 5 on 5) with that of taking on the prime offensive role. Even then, I'd say looking at his mission that way would be viewed as positive since 48 goals MORE than the opponent, when a great team scores 300 goals, is huge! It also means that the main cannons on opposing teams were not scoring as much against us as they might be against other teams.

Slagging or marginalizing Danrult's contribution to his line and to the team this season is plain and simple demagoguery and completely misinformed.

Nothing prevents Montreal from having a second offensive line with the Domi line, beyond the Danault line, even of Danrult's line continues to get top-6 minutes against the opponents' best players.

How difficult is this concept to grasp, really. For some, it seems to be an insurmountable hill to climb.

Great post! Danault has earned his spot and Julien and his coaching staff knows a heck of a lot more than some who don't think Danault is that good. Danault is not moving until Kotkaniemi and Poehling can earn their spots ahead of him. Placing them ahead of him so early in their development cause we are drooling over the future is very premature.
 

Vachon23

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Oct 14, 2015
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Even then, he could be a two-way shutdown C with top-6 minutes while an offensive 3rd line takes advantage of weaker match-ups to rack up even more points. Slightly less ice time for them (the offensive third line), but with better opportunities to expose opponents, would easily compensate for the lesser ice time.

Besides, Danault could continue to see little PP minutes and those could be given to a mixture of danault,s wingers and the 1st and 3rd line players on one of the two PP waves.

I honestly think that the mistake some are making is that they look at the Danault line as an offensive line in an archaic model of the past where teams had two offensive lines, a checking line and an energy line.

With teams relying more on their top-9 for balanced offensive production (those that expect to go deep in the playoffs, at least), the line of Tatar - Danault - Gallagher could continue to handle opponents' best lines while two other lines were given more offensive missions against lesser competition.

People forget that Danrult's line had a +48 goal differential while playing primarily against opponents' top lines and having a higher D-zone start percentage while doing so.

When Danault's line was on the ice, it basically scored more than the Crosby, Ovechkin, McDavid, Matthews, Tavares, McKinnon, etc. competition that it faced. How much better than that does it get? Galchenyuk, for example, even when he played C and had offensive flurries, still finished with a negative goal differential. That means that opponents scored more goals than we did when Galchenyuk was on the ice.

Most would surely claim that Galchenyuk had better offensive instincts than Danault (and with reason), but would that justify Galchenyuk playing top minutes against top opponents while we were scoring less than the team facing us did when he was on the ice?

People should just stop equating Danault playing top-6 minutes at even strength (or even the most minutes for a Montreal C while 5 on 5) with that of taking on the prime offensive role. Even then, I'd say looking at his mission that way would be viewed as positive since 48 goals MORE than the opponent, when a great team scores 300 goals, is huge! It also means that the main cannons on opposing teams were not scoring as much against us as they might be against other teams.

Slagging or marginalizing Danault's contribution to his line and to the team this season is plain and simple demagoguery and completely misinformed.

Nothing prevents Montreal from having a second offensive line with the Domi line, beyond the Danault line, even of Danault's line continues to get top-6 minutes against the opponents' best players.

How difficult is this concept to grasp, really? For some, it seems to be an insurmountable hill to climb.

Tatar-Danault-Gallagher should be a line we never touch for years. Build offensive lines with the other lines
 

robicgi

Registered User
Oct 17, 2018
200
171
Fair. Show me your plans of where you use the $8M cap space if not spend on Duchene?

Maybe try to sign Myers if we cant trade for a D and take a shot at a gamechanger like Panarin . If we cant sign any UFAs and Duchene was the only one to want to sign here i would still pass as IMO hes overpriced. If i had no choice but to spend to the cap then maybe take a contract back for a pick or LD. Im good as long as its not Lucic.
 

HabsWhiteKnightLOL

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Apr 29, 2017
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Somewhere on earth in a hospital
Those of you who don't want to sign Duchene for 7 years at $8M will be looking back in 2 or 3 years from now with regrets. Duchene's skills fit our team strategy. The issue is some think he has to lead our team and this is the problem. We are simply adding a top 6 talent and someone who can play center while we wait for Kotkaniemi and Poehling to mature into top 6 or top 9 centers who have an impact on the game. When that day happens, Duchene can move to wing and shelter them. Signing him is insurance at center and he fits.

Saying no to Duchene cause you think a better option will come our way is weird. Didn't we play that game with Radulov when we lost him?

$8M AAV will not look bad in 3 years from now. Just like when we though $7.5M was too much for Radulov and we let him walk in 2017.

The real issue is that Duchene will ask more than 8m if he wants to play in Montreal. Also im sorry but If Duchene were to sign in Montreal

1- Domi should be sent to the wing and Kotka on 2nd line and Danault on 3rd and put Poehling on 3rd when hes ready and trade Danault at the end of this.
 

26Mats

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Jun 23, 2018
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The real issue is that Duchene will ask more than 8m if he wants to play in Montreal. Also im sorry but If Duchene were to sign in Montreal

1- Domi should be sent to the wing and Kotka on 2nd line and Danault on 3rd and put Poehling on 3rd when hes ready and trade Danault at the end of this.

Another option is for Danault to play the wing when KK and Poehling surpass him - or for him to play 4c.
 

sandysan

Registered User
Dec 7, 2011
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6,388
Duchene clearly sucks.

He only has:

4 GP _ 3 G _ 4 A _ 7 P +5

Not good enough.

Drouin on the other hand has TONS of potential apparently.. potential to piss off every player on his team with his unwillingness to battle hard.
battle HARD ? lets just start working on the former before getting crazy with the latter,
 
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