Would the Wild have been more successful the last 7 years without the Parise/Suter signings?

[NonsenseElimination]

Do you think the Wild would have had more success the previous 7 seasons if they didn't make the Parise/Suter deals in 2012?

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[Bazeek]

Do you think the Wild would have had more success the previous 7 seasons if they didn't make the Parise/Suter deals in 2012?

For the last seven? No.

For the next seven? Maybe.

 

[Wild11MN]

For the last seven? No.

For the next seven? Maybe.

Bingo.

 

[Uberdachen]

Where’s the No selection, and how do I vote it so hard I destroy Earth?

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

We probably would’ve gotten a top 5 pick in 2013. We were going to be just awful that year.... Mackinnon, Barkov, Monaghan on the table.

 

[AKL]

I think we'd have a much better younger core right now and a brighter future, but the last 7 years would not have been as "successful" as they were, no.

 

[dBoon]

They would probably have had a lot more draft picks because they wouldn't have made so many deadline deals trying to get over the hump(Pominville, Hanzal, etc.). And they likely would have been higher picks as well.

Maybe it would have led to brighter future, but impossible to know.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Colorado drafted MacKinnon in 2013, already having 1st, 2nd and 3rd overall picks on the team, and has drafted 10th, 10th, 4th, 16th and 16th in 5 of the 6 years that have followed. As good as he is, he's not a magic bullet for Cup success.

It probably would've taken top 3 picks from 2013-2016 and picking the exact right guys in whatever spots those were, plus hitting on another star player after the 1st round to come close or surpass.

Come out of those years with MacKinnon/Barkov, Draisaitl/Ekblad, McDavid/Eichel/Marner, and Matthews/Tkachuk level players, and we're sitting pretty damn well right now. Switch them out with Drouin/Lindholm, Reinhart/Bennett, Strome/Hanifin and Dubois/Laine, I don't see much improvement.

 

[57special]

If Parise had been healthy for most of his contract up till now, they would've been great signings. As is, we've had an elite #1D all this time who is still a #1D anchoring our D, and Parise has been a decent #1LW when he has been healthy. What appeared to be outrageous AAV's at one time are now less so, and will be even more reasonable in 3-4 years time.

Until i knew that Parise had disc problems requiring surgery i was more down on him, but now I can see that he's done the best that he could under the circumstances.

The Wild have been at fault for not being able to surround those two (and Koivu) with a winning combination of FA's and young talent brought up through the draft. Some nice finds, but way too many swings and misses. Also traded away too many draft picks. And the final thing, which was maybe the most important...just plain bad luck. Suter and Spurgeon injuries at critical times, Harding getting MS, running into scorching hot goaltending, etc. etc..

 

[DANOZ28]

Im sure the sth's are happy we were more competitive with the signings. if we had chosen the other route we'd have several higher picks. nobody can predict the future. I will always believe other choices fletch made were the mistakes.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

I think they put together more than enough teams that could’ve made a run, we were just unlucky to run into Chicago,when they were the best team in the cap era, too often. Not to mention, a few other years when I think we really had a shot at a run, Bludreau’s playoff prowess took over and a 106 point season turned into a 5 game defeat at the hands of the 7 seed. A Parise and Suterless playoffs in 2017 ruined are chances against winnipeg. I think we had a chance to make a run.

it’s becoming more obvious to me that the team needs to be built around an elite 1C, 1D, and 1G to have sustained success. Until I see long term solutions at those positions, I’ll be skeptical of the team.

 

[TaLoN]

Bludreau’s playoff prowess took over and a 106 point season turned into a 5 game defeat at the hands of the 7 seed.

I think the opposing goaltender had more to do with that one. The Wild dominated on the ice, couldn't get it past the out of his mind goalie.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

I think the opposing goaltender had more to do with that one. The Wild dominated on the ice, couldn't get it past the out of his mind goalie.

I agree, I just like you jab boudreau whenever possible. Allen was a superstar that series, and it still sounds weird to say.

 

[TropicalFruitGirl2]

No. The Wild would NOT have been more successful the last seven seasons without signing 11 and 20.

First off, someone already mentioned, and I've felt this for a few years now: the Wild had the unfortunate timing of being at their peak while the Blackhawks were the best damned team on the planet....and Minnesota somehow kept finding them in the playoffs more often than not.

Secondly, if one thinks, "well, other players could have been signed with the money NOT paid to Parise and Suter"...I have to ask...what other players?? Who really was available at the time that would have been 'better' to sign than Parise and Suter at the time......

Third, and it relates to point number two, the Wild have been pretty disastrous trying to add to the core via trades and signings, so there was no guarantee that Minnesota would have made any better choices even if they had money not going to Parise and Suter.

Setoguchi, Coyle, Moulson, Vanek, Cook, Pomminville, Stewart, Heatley….just a sampling of guys the Wild signed, traded for, or otherwise acquired while giving up tons of picks and prospects in an attempt to supplement their main core.
Almost all of those guys were flops or simply did not live up to full expectations in moving the needle for the team.

Without Parise and Suter, the Wild likely remain just a boring, barely there team that may or may not have made the playoffs for the bulk of that time....with NO guarantee that they do better at the draft table and in the development pipeline (I'm of the mind that MN Wild talent scouts/evaluators need to be overhauled....wayyy too many underwhelming choices, and face it, the GM makes his decisions based on his scouting staffs' findings)….so at least with 11 and 20, they did make some noise, had the potential to go further than they did most playoff years had they gotten by the confounded Blackhawks.

As for the next few years, yes, the Wild will really be 'paying the piper' with the signings as 11 and 20 decline and the team is still on the hook for their cap hits.
Someone pointed out the cap hits would feel lessened as time went on, but fact is, combined between them, they are still pretty heavy, and given that Minnesota still hasn't shown signs of being able to compensate for this by drafting, developing, or signing low cost players that produce, it can be truly said moving forward that Parise and Suter's contracts will continue to be anchors.

 

[SupremeNachos]

No. The Wild would NOT have been more successful the last seven seasons without signing 11 and 20.

First off, someone already mentioned, and I've felt this for a few years now: the Wild had the unfortunate timing of being at their peak while the Blackhawks were the best damned team on the planet....and Minnesota somehow kept finding them in the playoffs more often than not.

Secondly, if one thinks, "well, other players could have been signed with the money NOT paid to Parise and Suter"...I have to ask...what other players?? Who really was available at the time that would have been 'better' to sign than Parise and Suter at the time......

Third, and it relates to point number two, the Wild have been pretty disastrous trying to add to the core via trades and signings, so there was no guarantee that Minnesota would have made any better choices even if they had money not going to Parise and Suter.

Setoguchi, Coyle, Moulson, Vanek, Cook, Pomminville, Stewart, Heatley….just a sampling of guys the Wild signed, traded for, or otherwise acquired while giving up tons of picks and prospects in an attempt to supplement their main core.
Almost all of those guys were flops or simply did not live up to full expectations in moving the needle for the team.

Without Parise and Suter, the Wild likely remain just a boring, barely there team that may or may not have made the playoffs for the bulk of that time....with NO guarantee that they do better at the draft table and in the development pipeline (I'm of the mind that MN Wild talent scouts/evaluators need to be overhauled....wayyy too many underwhelming choices, and face it, the GM makes his decisions based on his scouting staffs' findings)….so at least with 11 and 20, they did make some noise, had the potential to go further than they did most playoff years had they gotten by the confounded Blackhawks.

As for the next few years, yes, the Wild will really be 'paying the piper' with the signings as 11 and 20 decline and the team is still on the hook for their cap hits.
Someone pointed out the cap hits would feel lessened as time went on, but fact is, combined between them, they are still pretty heavy, and given that Minnesota still hasn't shown signs of being able to compensate for this by drafting, developing, or signing low cost players that produce, it can be truly said moving forward that Parise and Suter's contracts will continue to be anchors.

Knowing how the Wild drafted there was no guarantee we would've had a more successful roster than we do now.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

I think there was a brilliant path available in hindsight: draft Haula and Kuemper, keep Leddy, draft Granlund, Zucker and Larsson, draft Brodin and Nikita Kucherov, draft Matt Dumba, draft Leon Draisaitl, draft Alex Tuch, draft Timo Meier, draft Miro Heiskanen, draft Andrei Svechnikov. But instead we got Bryce Misley and Filip Johansson and Brennan Menell. We'll see what happens but there was clearly an anti-skill bias at work for many years. Obviously this timeline assumes a few deviations from the decisions that were .. but why? And quite a few draftees were not successful .. CHLers, NCAAers, and even other leaguers....that has to get better.

But if Firstov busts ... I'll be ok with it because it was a skill bet..so much better than when basement-busts bust.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

The hell did I just read?

 

[Wabit]

I think there was a brilliant path available in hindsight: draft Haula and Kuemper, keep Leddy, draft Granlund, Zucker and Larsson, draft Brodin and Nikita Kucherov, draft Matt Dumba, draft Leon Draisaitl, draft Alex Tuch, draft Timo Meier, draft Miro Heiskanen, draft Andrei Svechnikov. But instead we got Bryce Misley and Filip Johansson and Brennan Menell. We'll see what happens but there was clearly an anti-skill bias at work for many years. Obviously this timeline assumes a few deviations from the decisions that were .. but why? And quite a few draftees were not successful .. CHLers, NCAAers, and even other leaguers....that has to get better.

But if Firstov busts ... I'll be ok with it because it was a skill bet..so much better than when basement-busts bust.

Most draftees are bust league wide, if you get 1.5 NHLers a year you're a good drafting team. The impact Parise/Suter had would be the 2013 draft and later.

Granny, Zucker, Haula, Brodin, Dumba, along with Colye and Nino were already on the team. Leddy and Burns were already gone, Kucherov was the 11 draft class.

Menell had 0 impact on any draft, he was a FA signing after a great camp and preseason.

Misley was picked in the 4th round (116 oa). There a big difference between him turning out to be nothing compared to Fistov (42oa) and FJ (24oa) busting.

 

[SupremeNachos]

I think there was a brilliant path available in hindsight: draft Haula and Kuemper, keep Leddy, draft Granlund, Zucker and Larsson, draft Brodin and Nikita Kucherov, draft Matt Dumba, draft Leon Draisaitl, draft Alex Tuch, draft Timo Meier, draft Miro Heiskanen, draft Andrei Svechnikov. But instead we got Bryce Misley and Filip Johansson and Brennan Menell. We'll see what happens but there was clearly an anti-skill bias at work for many years. Obviously this timeline assumes a few deviations from the decisions that were .. but why? And quite a few draftees were not successful .. CHLers, NCAAers, and even other leaguers....that has to get better.

But if Firstov busts ... I'll be ok with it because it was a skill bet..so much better than when basement-busts bust.

That is if you really trust that our GM and staff would choose the same picks.

 

[57special]

Suter has been more than worth his contract. Parise hasn't been, IMO, but has been by no means a total flop. When they were signed, my first thought was that it was too much, and for too long.
I fail to see how getting top players to come to your team is a bad thing, unless there was a clear and obvious path available at that time that would've been better. Who knows, maybe we would've been crap, gotten the #1 OA, and made the consensus best pick of....Yakupov!

Fletcher was too free and easy with trading away some of our draft picks, is my main complaint, and secondarily, there was a lack of forethought about the ED.

 

[TaLoN]

Suter has been more than worth his contract. Parise hasn't been, IMO, but has been by no means a total flop. When they were signed, my first thought was that it was too much, and for too long.
I fail to see how getting top players to come to your team is a bad thing, unless there was a clear and obvious path available at that time that would've been better. Who knows, maybe we would've been crap, gotten the #1 OA, and made the consensus best pick of....Yakupov!

Fletcher was too free and easy with trading away some of our draft picks, is my main complaint, and secondarily, there was a lack of forethought about the ED.

Remember though, the ED rules only got finalized like 1yr before. Hard to have a ton of forethought with that short of notice.

Most of the NMC contracts were already in place before it was known that prime players would be had in the ED, not just typical scrubs.

 

[57special]

I thought it was pretty well known what the rules were well before 1 year. In any event, guys like Scandella, Pominville, Haula and maybe another Dman should've been moved way before they were. Tuch? He had one nice(not great) season, so far, on a very good offensive team. I'll wait before I declare him a big loss.

I never did like the 2nd Poms contract. His oncoming decline was pretty obvious to me(and a couple of other posters...Nick Schultz fan, maybe?)before the 2nd contract was given. You could see in the playoffs how soft he was...sort of a high end Donato.

 

[TaLoN]

I thought it was pretty well known what the rules were well before 1 year. In any event, guys like Scandella, Pominville, Haula and maybe another Dman should've been moved way before they were. Tuch? He had one nice(not great) season, so far, on a very good offensive team. I'll wait before I declare him a big loss.

I never did like the 2nd Poms contract. His oncoming decline was pretty obvious to me(and a couple of other posters...Nick Schultz fan, maybe?)before the 2nd contract was given. You could see in the playoffs how soft he was...sort of a high end Donato.

Couldn't be known well before since Vegas wasn't even granted expansion until June 2016, 1yr before the ED.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

Most draftees are bust league wide, if you get 1.5 NHLers a year you're a good drafting team. The impact Parise/Suter had would be the 2013 draft and later.

Granny, Zucker, Haula, Brodin, Dumba, along with Colye and Nino were already on the team. Leddy and Burns were already gone, Kucherov was the 11 draft class.

Menell had 0 impact on any draft, he was a FA signing after a great camp and preseason.

Misley was picked in the 4th round (116 oa). There a big difference between him turning out to be nothing compared to Fistov (42oa) and FJ (24oa) busting.

I understand that. I was just doing an "alternate timeline" that might have led the Wild to a Cup instead of the obvious limbo they're in now and forever will be in.

The OP suggests an "alternate timeline" where Parise/Suter didn't sign. I agree with others that on the whole, it was a good bet but one that has been undermined by the loophole of length and by other structural defects in the organization.

There's a lot of justified blame on Risebrough having weak drafts, plus too much success under Lemaire, then Fletcher coming in and not changing anyone on the scouting staff so that relatively weak drafting continued, and then Fletcher also trading first and second-round picks for players like Pominville and Hanzal and Chris Stewart.

When other teams use their mid-round picks on Jordan Binnington, Jamie Benn, Johnny Gaudreau, Brayden Point, et al. it does chafe me that the Wild's history is full of Bryce Misley, Kurtis Gabriel, Alexandre Belanger and Louie Nanne. Draft picks should not be punted, and this organization has done a lot of it.

The player drafted one pick after Misley by the way has more NHL goals this season than Misley had total points last season in college. Just a fourth-rounder though...

 

[Bazeek]

Then other teams use their mid-round picks on Jordan Binnington, Jamie Benn, Johnny Gaudreau, Brayden Point, et al. it does chafe me that the Wild's history is full of Bryce Misley, Kurtis Gabriel, Alexandre Belanger and Louie Nanne. Draft picks should not be punted, and this organization has done a lot of it.

Is there a team in the league that doesn't have a history of mid-to-late round picks that don't yield NHL players?

I think most of us agree that bleeding 2nd rounders in particular has hurt our pool depth, and the loss of later picks may have exacerbated that. But just going by the picks we have had, is there anything to show that our success rate in the 3rd-7th rounds is anything other than average?