bp13
Registered User
if Bergy were ever lined up with Kelly and Pevs, it's not a demotion for Bergy, it's a promotion for Kelley and Pevs.
Either way you slice it, none of those three deserve those fates, right?
if Bergy were ever lined up with Kelly and Pevs, it's not a demotion for Bergy, it's a promotion for Kelley and Pevs.
Either way you slice it, none of those three deserve those fates, right?
I'm not sure I follow this Morris... If you need Bergeron on the ice for checking purposes, wouldn't Seguin still be on the bench?
I'm kind of baffled by how much effort is expended on these boards trying to solve for our third line LW "problem", as though that's not one of the least important spots on any NHL team. Most NHL teams would jump at the chance to ice a third line with Kelly, Peverley and their best AHL plugger.
I still see a team that could use more skill on the blueline, and one who desperately needs more skill on the blueline on the power play. I don't see why we're not focused more on that issue. I think winning a Cup with a power play that rivals your average high school team's probably doesn't happen more than once a century.
I'm kind of baffled by how much effort is expended on these boards trying to solve for our third line LW "problem", as though that's not one of the least important spots on any NHL team. Most NHL teams would jump at the chance to ice a third line with Kelly, Peverley and their best AHL plugger.
I still see a team that could use more skill on the blueline, and one who desperately needs more skill on the blueline on the power play. I don't see why we're not focused more on that issue. I think winning a Cup with a power play that rivals your average high school team's probably doesn't happen more than once a century.
Could swear I read something where Bergeron only went three years with the Bruins because of his limited offensive role (playing with less then ideal wingers)... He's not happy with being a "third line guy"...
I assume this will be frowned upon, but let me make my case before you make up your mind...
A: Defensive Adjustments
Last year against Washington, Julien kept subbing in defensive specialists for Seguin (i.e. Kelly or Peverley). The in-game line shuffling, Dzone starts and reduced ice time eventually led to Julien moving Seguin to Krejci's RW. Kelly also gave that line a LH option on Dzone faceoffs. Seguin has improved defensively but he's not at the level of a guy like Kelly, who's literally in the league because of his defensive acumen (and no matter how good Seguin gets, he can't help with those LH face-offs). Julien has made this adjustment a few times in close games this season as well, so even with Seguin's improved play, I'd expect it to continue into the playoffs.
B: Seguin at Center
This was touched on by a few people in the 'Seguin Defensive Appreciation' thread. The kid has really looked strong when he's rotated into the role of center this season. He's made plays in front of his own net, won battles, won 54% of his draws (albeit a small sample size) and he absolutely EXPLODES out of his own zone on breakouts. He's also really seeing the ice well and making plays.
I understand you don't want to mess with something that's working well right now, and with Chris Bourque not really producing maybe you don't have the horses to roll 3 scoring lines today, but Bourque may not be the only option a month from now...
C: Deadline Acquisitions
Chiarelli seems to be looking for a legit top6 forward; Briere, Alfredsson, and so on. If he succeeds in acquiring a player like that, then they'd have the depth to create a formidable 2nd offensive line around Marchand, Seguin and the New Guy. Imagine a rejuvenated Iginla in that role , or even a Ryan Clowe type who will bang bodies and get to the front of the net.
And if the tipping point for a successful Kelly-Peverley line was a player at least as good as Ryder, imagine what they could do with Patrice Bergeron. That could be the best two-way line in the league.
Lucic-Krejci-Horton
Marsh-Seguin-NewGuy
Kelly-Bergeron-Peverley
Paille-Campbell-Thornton
Possible Issues
Is there enough ice time to roll a lineup like that?
Does it hurt the team to have Bergeron playing with less talented offensive players?
At what point (when you're playing well as-is) do you shuffle the deck to try a lineup like that?
Is it fair to Bergeron?
Could swear I read something where Bergeron only went three years with the Bruins because of his limited offensive role (playing with less then ideal wingers)... He's not happy with being a "third line guy"...
I've wondered about the Kelly-Bergeron-Peverley line for a bit and my main concern is that Kelly's and Peverley's lack of production is not Chris Bourque's fault and they are, in fact, not very productive on the offensive end.
Wouldn't mind seeing this either:
Lucic-Kelly-Seguin
NewGuy-Krejci-Horton
Marchand-Bergeron-Peverley
Paille-Campbell-Thornton
*lines in no particular order
That was a deadly line for a few games last year, right?
That was a deadly line for a few games last year, right?
Don't think we have ever seen Kelly with Lucic and Seguin.
That was a deadly line for a few games last year, right?
Last night. 1:50 left in the first period. Defensive zone draw.
Julien takes Seguin off the ice and puts Kelly out with Bergeron.
They lose the draw but Bergeron blocks a shot and chips it ahead to Marchand. He and Kelly leave the zone BUT Kelly goes off for a change leaving Marchand to fend for himself, he gets surrounded and turns the puck over.
That play may not seem like a big deal in the regular season but in the playoffs, when an errant dump-in can cost you the series, things like that add up. Last year Seguin was far and away the Bruins best offensive player, but in the playoffs they constantly pulled him off the ice for defensive zone draws. Sometimes he missed his shift because the Bergeron line would get hemmed in and he'd have to come out with different linemates. Other times the line would get out of their zone but they had trouble getting anything going offensively because Kelly would have to break off the rush and go for a change. It was a poor use of the team's most dangerous weapon, and it reduced Bergeron and Marchand's effectiveness as well. Ultimately, they changed it for the back half of the series.
I know there's a vocal group of "if it ain't broke don't fix it" types, but IMO that line is broken, or at least disfunctional when it comes to playoff hockey because how they use Bergeron and how they use Seguin are at odds with each other.
I know there's a vocal group of "if it ain't broke don't fix it" types, but IMO that line is broken, or at least disfunctional when it comes to playoff hockey because how they use Bergeron and how they use Seguin are at odds with each other.
Last night. 1:50 left in the first period. Defensive zone draw.
Julien takes Seguin off the ice and puts Kelly out with Bergeron.
They lose the draw but Bergeron blocks a shot and chips it ahead to Marchand. He and Kelly leave the zone BUT Kelly goes off for a change leaving Marchand to fend for himself, he gets surrounded and turns the puck over.
That play may not seem like a big deal in the regular season but in the playoffs, when an errant dump-in can cost you the series, things like that add up. Last year Seguin was far and away the Bruins best offensive player, but in the playoffs they constantly pulled him off the ice for defensive zone draws. Sometimes he missed his shift because the Bergeron line would get hemmed in and he'd have to come out with different linemates. Other times the line would get out of their zone but they had trouble getting anything going offensively because Kelly would have to break off the rush and go for a change. It was a poor use of the team's most dangerous weapon, and it reduced Bergeron and Marchand's effectiveness as well. Ultimately, they changed it for the back half of the series.
I know there's a vocal group of "if it ain't broke don't fix it" types, but IMO that line is broken, or at least disfunctional when it comes to playoff hockey because how they use Bergeron and how they use Seguin are at odds with each other.
I think this plays a bit to my point earlier- you don't go adjusting that line (MBS), you adjust the 3rd line and make sure that MBS are together and tuned for the playoffs.
We all know that CJ loves to pull a wing off, drop a 2nd center out there on d zone faceoffs because we otherwise run the risk of someone being thrown out of the circle and losing the draw. Look at the Caps series last year- how many times were we thrown out of the circle?
I doubt we'll see CJ go away from this strategy as a whole- Bergeron will be sent out in place of Lucic on Krejci's d zone faceoffs, and someone will go out if the 4th line is taking one- it's just how it is.
IF though we're only looking to fix the situation where Seguin stays on the ice in these and try to keep some line unity then the correction is for Seguin to take more faceoffs in practice and get some in game situations as well. If he's able to be the #2 on the dot without fear, that line and the 3rd line have no need to swing guys around on face offs.
Even if we're looking at TOI for regular season play and seeing things rather balanced, consider the playoffs. When it comes down to the stretch, who do you want on the ice? Do you want to be running 3 lines come the 3rd when you're looking for a goal?... On the flip side, do you want Peverley and Kelly out there trying to get the tying goal in that situation?
Not sure I follow your logic Watson. At the start you say you shouldn't adjust the MBS line, then you say Julien's going to doing what he does and stick to his strategies.
Well, what Julien does, is constantly adjust the MBS line because he wants Bergeron and Kelly on the ice together for all the defensive zone draws and critical situations. It's more than just Seguin winning draws, it's about having your best, most competent DEFENSIVE players out there at critical times (and I think he likes having a LH option for the dot as well). Seguin could lead the team in FO%, and IMO, Julien would still roll out Kelly for that faceoff. That's why Kelly's here.
My issue is that I think this hurts Seguin and Bergeron/Marchand. I think that was painfully evident in the Caps series and I don't want to see history repeat.
Fwiw, I also don't think we see this kind of juggling a lot with the Krejci or Kelly lines. Krejci gets most of his starts in the offensize zone where it's not as big a deal if he gets tossed, and Kelly has Peverley to back him up. We do see some juggling with the 4th line but nobody is going to lose sleep over Thornton missing a shift.