Speculation: would speaking french be a hurdle for Babcock to work in Montreal?

[Habsfunk]

I think most of the media would let it slide because he's Mike ****ing Babcock. The worst "pur-laine" types would make a stink, but I'm sure they'd be drowned out by the millions of people who would be completely ecstatic over the hire.

If the Habs lose though, all bets are off.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Maybe I can clarify my position: while I think that this "fight" mentality is absolutely needed for Quebec society in general, I don't necessarily think that a hockey team is the best "ring" to fight that fight; just that this teams (and the fans) need to acknowledge that this connection to French culture is part of what makes the Habs "special", different from all other teams.

I disagree, but will refrain from commenting here as we will inevitably delve off-topic. Feel free to continue this in the politic boards though and I'll reply.

I don't think that a francophone coach is a necessity; I think that keeping a strong "French connection" in the whole organization is important. Again, the coach could very well speak only a few words in French, and I'd be fine with that.

That can be accomplished by maintain bilingualism at our home games, putting in the effort to have proper translation and etc. The media should share a responsibility here as well, instead of trying to bully the organization into adhering to its bias preferences.

The arrogance you feel from me is probably real: when I read tons of "Anglo-priviledged" posters dismissing the importance of French culture in Quebec, making fun of Therrien's accent (da record, rispek, etc.), and use expressions like "French media", almost as if the adjective "French" was pejorative, I feel compelled to be arrogant...

That stems from annoyance. Over on the Canucks board, posters mocked AV incessantly for his gum crewing in the same sense Bruce Boudreau is mocked for being overweight. When people are frustrated they habitually find something to 'ridicule' the source of their anger. If Therrien were British, his accent would still be mocked.

"French media" tends to be used to separate perceived biases. TSN, for instance, is generally not going to discuss language or Francophone players, whereas RDS/TVA place that as a much higher priority.

I think that what drives me crazy is the (false) idea that we haven't won a Cup in two decades because of the French factor. It doesn't make sense..! I mean, of the 29 other teams who don't have this "French bias", how many did not win a cup in the last 20 years? Why target this factor as decisive, when it is not?

Speaking "some" French is a necessity in this job in Montreal, like speaking English is anywhere in the NHL (including Montreal). If the best coach available was Russian, and did not speak English, we would not offer him the job, because he would lack one important qualification.

That being said, as you can see, I am not "anglophobe" at all (mod edit).

While it is not necessarily a factor, by restricting who we hire, we potentially miss out on better quality coaches. Assume we did fire Therrien this off season, but Molson maintained his replacement must speak French. We remove Todd McLellan, Mike Babcock and a slew of other reputable coaches from our hiring pool. That can have an effect on the end result.

 

[Rikiki Bousquet]

I would most certainly disagree. Quebec is without a doubt a French province. This is undeniable. Outside the Greater Montreal area, the province is almost homogeneously francophone. Again, I might be off a % or two, but anglophones (mother tongue English) only constitute around 7.7% of the population, while the province is 78% francophone (French mother tongue).

Montreal on the other hand is by far a bilingual city -maybe even a multilingual city. If I'm not mistaken, on the island itself, I believe anglophones and allophones outweigh the francophone population by a hair now.

I may disagree with you on a number of points ( mainly on other topics, though), but your input on the matter is done in a manner I really appreciate : calm and pertinent. And it's a rare thing in these parts .

 

[ClasslessGuy]

Last time they made a surve on this not even 50% of the dumd JDM readers wanted a french coach. My guess is 70% of the fans don't care at all.

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

Therrien won't be fired this summer, if anything it'd be awesome to see Bergevin somehow convince another member of his former organization in Quenneville to come over after his deal is up next year.

 

[habalifeok]

Im from western Canada and my favorite team since the late 50s is the Canadiens . My favorite player was Jean Beliveau because of his skill and in general because of the way he played. He was quoted as saying "We feel that we represent French Canada when we play hockey". Now Im not from a French background and this doesn't bother me at all and I know that him and other famous French Canadiens make the people of Quebec very proud of their hockey team.
Their are a lot of Canadiens fans around the league throughout Canada and many like myself speak no French at all. Of course when I watch the announcers are English so Im oblivious to the fact that it must be broadcast in French as well.
Therefore the best coach available should be leading the Habs and languauge he speaks should be irrelevant.
Im sure that most if not all of the players have a much different attitude as to what the team means but they all respect the history,just listen to Subban. But as far as representing French Canada I think that sentiment has faded away.

 

[groovejuice]

Him or muller I think would be fine here

That said, get that idea out if your heads, Babcock isn't coming here because why would he want to, and mb won't fire mt given his record. He 'might' do it if the Habs slump hard next season but Babcock will have been hired by then.

Even if the Habs lose in 4, Therrien is safe, IMO.

If the team has a losing record after 20 games next season, that will be the tipping point, I think.

I feel dirty looking for benefits of my team losing.

I really despise Therrien.

 

[24Cups]

If the Habs bow out of the playoffs without giving the Bolts much of a fight, especially if due to indiscipline, I can see Geoff Molson being very interested in the services of Babcock. Money will not be an object.

 

[InglewoodJack]

I think Athletic's case is worse in the sense that their pool of talent is more limited in a continent where there are no foreign player restrictions anymore, so the better Basque players quickly go elsewhere (their restriction is on players. not on coaches).

Then again the big difference is that football does not aim at achieving parity and openly try to benefit the bigger and richer teams. The rest are not considered important or relevant. At the end of the season Athletic is content with being middle of the pack and/or not being relegated.

Yeah that makes sense. I also think that football teams might also play a bigger role as a cultural icon than most NA sports teams?

Anglo's are not uni-lingual, they can communicate in French - some just choose not to.
Maybe not the younger generation, but I know loads of anglos in their 40-50's that are just as inflexible on the language debate.

The identity, culture and community of anglophones in Montreal is as strong-willed and dedicated to survive as the French community is. While there's definitely a good reason why Quebec passed laws to make the province more francophone, the english speakers who live here are definitely dedicated to keeping the culture they grew up with alive and I think that a resistance to speaking french is a part of that. Of course it probably harms their job prospects or whatever, but it is what it is.

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

I totally get the desire to want to have a french coach. Makes sense to me. And if a guy like Vigneault is available, grab the guy. But we shouldn't not hire a Babcock or Hitcock. Those guys are great coaches and we're in a position where hiring them would help us greatly in terms of getting a cup.

Also intrigued by Hitchcock as well as Babcock. Why do you think that the Blues have not made the next step with the former? Goaltending? Or something that comes down to coaching?

 

[punk255]

Bonjur je mapel Mike Backcock et je suis canadien de Montreal

.... ok you pass the test and we happy to announce that you're the next coach for the Montreal Canadian

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

Even if the Habs lose in 4, Therrien is safe, IMO.

If the team has a losing record after 20 games next season, that will be the tipping point, I think.

I feel dirty looking for benefits of my team losing.

I really despise Therrien.

If the Habs bow out of the playoffs without giving the Bolts much of a fight, especially if due to indiscipline, I can see Geoff Molson being very interested in the services of Babcock. Money will not be an object.

Interesting takes. If MB and Molson wait till mid-season next year, they will be left with scraps. Surely they know this. You don't get a shot an elite coach too often. Hard questions have to be asked about our current coach, and especially how he mishandled young creative scoring talent as well as sheltered his favorite player in a manner that undermined the team.

I said it, and I'll say it again: the Habs are rooted in a French province, whose francophones were "water boys" for way too long, and who now demand respect. That's part of the current Hans identity. If you don't like that, there are 29 other teams you can cheer for.

I don't need lessons on who to cheer for. I am perfectly bilingual PhD engineer and university professor living in the US, with a thesis in each official language (Ecole Polytechnique, McGill). Your narrow definition of respect as some sort of collective movement that hinges on a choice of hockey coach is utterly wrong-headed, especially if said coach can barely utter a meaningful sentence in his own native tongue.

If a French Canadian really wants respect, I say earn it as an individual. Stay in school, do the hard classes that most kids don't want to do: math, physics, biology, chemistry, engineering, computer science, medicine. Decide to compete with anyone (Chinese, Indian, WASP, Jewish, Arab, anyone anywhere) in real life: in grad school, at NIH or NSF, in business, in Silicon Valley... If your hope for respect hinges on a collective movement of any kind, let alone the nature of the press conference of a hockey club, it is very tenuous indeed; that individual may not have risen much higher than the proverbial waterboy.

And it is this "fight" mentality that causes problems. Hiring an English speaking coach is not going to arbitrarily dismiss years of Francophone culture. Although the origins of the Habs have meaning, this organization needs to realize this is not the 1950s, but 2015. These are tired, old traditions that only serve to hinder progressive development and long-term success. Need I remind you it has been over two decades since the last cup came to Montreal?

Now it would be disingenuous to fault language for that, but management has a responsibly to do everything in its capability to change our fortune, not preserve a bias for no tangible reason. Politics belong in a separate paradigm and should not be a factor in the success or failure of a hockey team.

On a personal level, I find it exceptionally arrogant you disregard criticism of an obvious bias by saying anyone who disagrees can find another team. Alas, I will not delve deeper into why because we'll have a language debate on our hands.

Nicely put.

 

[MXD]

I don't need lessons on who to cheer for. I am perfectly bilingual PhD engineer and university professor living in the US, with a thesis in each official language (Ecole Polytechnique, McGill). Your narrow definition of respect as some sort of collective movement that hinges on a choice of hockey coach is utterly wrong-headed, especially if said coach can barely utter a meaningful sentence in his own native tongue.

If a French Canadian really wants respect, I say earn it as an individual. Stay in school, do the hard classes that most kids don't want to do: math, physics, biology, chemistry, engineering, computer science, medicine. Decide to compete with anyone (Chinese, Indian, WASP, Jewish, Arab, anyone anywhere) in real life: at NIH or NSF, in business, in Silicon Valley... If your hope for respect hinges on a collective movement of any kind, let alone the nature of the press conference of a hockey club, it is very tenuous indeed; that individual may not have risen much higher than the proverbial waterboy.

What I am gonna say is completely off topic, but....

What a superb display of science-centric narrow-mindedness that is.

Some people can get a lot of respect and admiration, as well as a successful career, in other fields of education. Think of Business, Law, Economics, amongst other things.

Hell, some might have no university degrees to speak of and still do darn well in their field, to the point of gaining some serious international acclaim. I don't care for Xavier Dolan or Celine Dion at all, but I strongly doubt they did Computer Science courses to get where they are.

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

What I am gonna say is completely off topic, but....

What a superb display of science-centric narrow-mindedness that is.

Some people can get a lot of respect and admiration, as well as a successful career, in other fields of education. Think of Business, Law, Economics, amongst other things.

Hell, some might have no university degrees to speak of and still do darn well in their field, to the point of gaining some serious international acclaim. I don't care for Xavier Dolan or Celine Dion at all, but I strongly doubt they did Computer Science courses to get where they are.

It was. Point taken. The main point is how obsolete the notion of collective respect is.

 

[ChikN]

I mean the freaking owner speaks french and the big boss speaks french. If anything having an english speaking coach shows that french people aren't water boys anymore.

I prefer the boss french and the employee english... If you're in the optic to show that french is the *Boss*.

 

[FlyingKostitsyn]

Guys, nobody would ***** about Babcock not being french because he's clearly ''the best available'' even to the worst nationalist out there. Thats how it works. Some people disliked Koivu not speaking french because they dreamt about the superior Lecavalier every night and fantasised every trade deadline or free agency that he was available. Had Koivu been better than any franco player nobody would have made mention of his lack of french.

Could the same be said about Cunneyworth back then? The problem with Randy wasn't so much that he couldn't speak french but that he had no redeeming coaching ability. His team reeked, and he made no improvements. Why bring in a ''nobody'' anglo-only coach with no experience when you can instead bring in a ''ptit gars de chez nous''?

What people didn't understand was that Cunneyworth was the sacrificial lamb, if there even was a french coach worth trying then it would have been foolish to use him that year when all hope was lost.

On the touchy subject of ''language based expectations for the Habs by franco fans'' :

The younger franco fanbase usually don't care about language, most of us do understand and speak english, and are more opened to the world. We have also grown up with a league in which very few franco players dominate which wasn't the case in generations past. Whereas for, say, my dad its logical to expect the Habs to have a few awesome franco guys because Lafleur was totally awesome and they really wanted Dionne to be a Habs too, for the youngsters Lecavalier, St Louis, Brodeur were the best we've known, with Roy in our childhood. No other superstars, some good players a-la Gagne or Bergeron but no other franchise guys. Its silly to claim you need a french core when these guys don't exist. To return on topic - its silly to expect having the best coach of the world AND for him to be french when its not the case

The several converted-nordiques ''fans'' who often get accused of being some sort of language crusaders actually are not for the most part! The false fans will use it to criticise the Habs because they'll pick up any munitions to fuel their hate (as such they don't count). The rest just want a winning team. They had a fleur de-lys shirt and blue sweater but QC city has always been MUCH more ''red'' politically than franco-Montreal and these guys' best historical players were mostly Euros, so they usually get it.

Overall hiring Babcock would go very smoothly.

 

[FF de Mars]

As a Québécois I'm pro-Babcock. We have Bergevin already. Just tell him to say Bonjour and Merci and hire a Québécois assistant coach like Guy Boucher or something. Just hire the best coach, regardless of language. If it's a tie, then take the French one, but I'd much rather Babcock than Therrien.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I totally get the desire to want to have a french coach. Makes sense to me. And if a guy like Vigneault is available, grab the guy. But we shouldn't not hire a Babcock or Hitcock. Those guys are great coaches and we're in a position where hiring them would help us greatly in terms of getting a cup.

Agreed. If Vigneault were available, I would jump to get him. But that just isn't the case. I'd also put Todd McLellan on your list. Frankly, I think he's a better coach than Hitchcock but San Jose simply needed a change.

 

[FlyingKostitsyn]

As a Québécois I'm pro-Babcock. We have Bergevin already. Just tell him to say Bonjour and Merci and hire a Québécois assistant coach like Guy Boucher or something. Just hire the best coach, regardless of language. If it's a tie, then take the French one, but I'd much rather Babcock than Therrien.

Babcock's won cups, medals... Anyone critiquing his hiring would be insane. Its like choosing between Alex Tanguay and Sidney Crosby.

Cunneyworth was more like choosing Garth Murray over Tanguay, to keep the comparison...

Agreed. If Vigneault were available, I would jump to get him. But that just isn't the case. I'd also put Todd McLellan on your list. Frankly, I think he's a better coach than Hitchcock but San Jose simply needed a change.

If we get Vigneault again we'll have to take back Mario Tremblay afterwards in order to follow the ''blast from the past'' sequence. No thanks

 

[number 11]

is mb going to fire therrien? no.

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

Babcock's won cups, medals... Anyone critiquing his hiring would be insane. Its like choosing between Alex Tanguay and Sidney Crosby.

Cunneyworth was more like choosing Garth Murray over Tanguay, to keep the comparison...

I'd go beyond that. The kind of victim-like narrative evoked elsewhere in this thread is typical of the disenfranchised. If French-speaking Canadians have really made strides, and they have (my family has), then they have the self-confidence to make decisions in a rational manner. A rational thinker champions the best man possible, especially if there is a large disparity between the top candidate(s) and the candidate(s) who would have been chosen through parochial thinking.

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

is mb going to fire therrien? no.

Alone he might not, but it would not be the first time that Molson influences MB's thinking, even at a large cost to himself.

 

[punk255]

I heard that Mike Babcock Family tree ancestor where french
He's 5-great father generation last name was Barquerotte

.. so he pass the french test

 

[MXD]

It was. Point taken. The main point is how obsolete the notion of collective respect is.

This I can agree with !

 

[FlyingKostitsyn]

is mb going to fire therrien? no.

Why not?

I expect ''They are friends!'' or ''He's hired him!'' or even the incredible ''He said a couple times that he's incredibly confident in his coaching staff!''

Well friends don't mean jack when its business. Most coaches are fired by the GM who hired them and when you lose, GMs also lose confidence in you. There is nothing unique about the current Bergy-Therrien situation and coaches get fired all the time, even those who get their contracts extended.

Confidence is a huge factor in hockey. You want the team to be confident with your coach because you want your team to win. Bergevin's job is to publicly support his coach as best as he can, its best way he can help his team every day. He seems to be very good at this!

Unless we pull out a major upset or at least come close to winning the series Bergy might start thinking about a change... He knows Therrien's resume better than anyone here, he's built hard working teams that were unable to push to the next level. Maybe thats what Bergevin wanted for the disorganised, scared, lazy ass team he inherited. It was a good choice at the time to bring back a culture of hard work and accountability. Hopefully Bergevin gets a new coach for the ''next phase'' before Price&co's primes are over.