Proposal: Would Edmonton be better without McDavid?

[Flamesjustwin]

No.

You can acquire depth a lot easier than you can acquire the best player in the world.

I love this logic. That is why the Oilers will continue to bottom feed for years to come. Trading McDavid for a haul would put the Oilers into a contending position. Something I have found their fans have no interest in over having the best player in hockey.

 

[AndreRoy]

I... don't understand? Did you post in the wrong thread? Or did I miss a post you're replying too?

Saying that the Lightning would have zero interest in acquiring McDavid is pretty funny though. Why so much scorn from Lightning fans regarding McDavid these days? Kuch will get his Art Ross this year and you guys are going to do well in the playoffs... why the constant need to prove you're better than McDavid and the Oilers lol

Because in several previous threads on this topic insane Oilers fans were repeatedly demanding multiple elite players for McDavid, none of whom we would even trade for him straight up, and I’m trying to cut off that line of annoyance before they start it up again.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Gotta feel bad for McDavid
They have no depth, no cap space, and no good prospects after Bouchard and Yamamoto

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I love this logic. That is why the Oilers will continue to bottom feed for years to come. Trading McDavid for a haul would put the Oilers into a contending position. Something I have found their fans have no interest in over having the best player in hockey.

Shame you didn’t trade Johnny Stickboy when you were brutal, then.

The flames are actually a perfect example of what the Oilers should be doing. Trade overrated replaceable pieces for things you actually need, keep the core group together.

 

[TFHockey]

Because in several previous threads on this topic insane Oilers fans were repeatedly demanding multiple elite players for McDavid, none of whom we would even trade for him straight up, and I’m trying to cut off that line of annoyance before they start it up again.

"None of which you would trade straight up." Dude listen to yourself. You're sounding as hysterical as the Oiler fans you're calling out.

McDavid is the best player in the league. Most fans know it. GMs know it. The rest of the NHL knows it.

These threads are terrible. They are only designed to get a fan base riled up. Why? We all know the Oilers aren't trading McDavid. Just as the Lightning aren't going to trade Kucherov.

 

[zar]

One player having a career year
Two overpaid players past their prime
15th overall

Yeah, that’s a ****ty offer for McDavid.

Not to mention that the NHL is a salary cap league.

Although, I wouldn’t say Weber and Price are past their prime... they are starting to move out of their prime and that doesn’t align favourably with their contracts.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

I guess people don't remember 2007-2010 Oilers when it was all support and depth players with no top end talent.

Smyth - Horcoff - Hemsky
Lupul - Stoll - Torres
Sykora - Reasoner - Pisani

J.Smith - Staios
Smid - Tarnquist
Greene - Hejda
Gilbert


Oilers finished 24th


Funny thing tho.

With pretty much This exact same group of depth players, when we added Pronger we came a goal away from a Stanley Cup.


You tell me. You think Pronger is easier to acquire over players like Horcoff, Pisani, and Greene?

 

[Drew311]

That's because we have had an idiot GM running the show for the last few years. And by few, I mean dozen or so. The Oilers aren't as bad as most people are thinking. Yes, there are a lot of holes on the roster, but if you look at the pieces we have, they are holes that should be able to be filled by a competent GM. We need 2 or 3 wingers middle six wingers and a 3rd line centre to improve drastically. Those types of parts are not that hard to get. and shouldn't cost a ton of cap space to get either. The defense still doesn't have a #1, but with a healthy Sekera and an emerging Caleb Jones vying for a spot, our top 4 is passable, it's basically replacing Matt Benning with someone more consistent that is the only "must have" there. Essentially, a competent GM should be able to fill the most significant caps for the Oilers. We'll just have to see if Oilers management is smart enough to pick a competent GM to run the team this time.

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

If you are too afraid to make tough decisions now so you are a better team in 3 or 4 years from now, you can continue on with the current road you are on if you like. Cap space is not there to go after impact UFA's. Prospect pool needs drastic improvements in both quality and quantity. The ability the Oilers have to improve the team into a legit year after year playoff team with positive direction is very tough in the short term.

Trading RNH for a top 10 pick and other pieces is not a popular move but might be the best move in terms of reaching cup contender status from the half way point of McDavid's current contract. If not RNH, what pieces do you have that you can sell for picks that turn into grade A prospects?

Imagine walking out of this draft with Byram and Kaliyev? Your prospect pool should be the focus.

Kaliyev is Nail Yakupov 2.0. Literally all he has is a shot on the PP and that is it. Do not want.

You know what’s better than that? Walking out with Byram and RNH.

 

[McFlash97]

No.

McDavid is the Oilers. The marketing, the hope, the history of Gretzky to Messier to McDavid is just too important to the organization.

They will get it right. They almost did 2 years ago. It will happen again within a year or 2 and stay that way for a while.

 

[CountKong]

I think such a trade (something in the range of the OP suggestion) would give the Oilers a slightly better record short term but it wouldn't be as good long term by drafting, developing and signing proper support around McDavid ( easier said than done).

 

[missinthejets]

Domi is better than any Edm forward not named Drai or McDavid

is he though? He appears to have a whooping 4 more points than Ryan Nugent-Hopkins this season... and a massive edge to RNH the rest of the career.

 

[La Bamba]

Hypothetically, even if the Oilers had a better record without McDavid, I'd still rather have McDavid. He's just too entertaining to watch. Getting to watch him play, even if it's just 82 games a year, is worth it for the memories/history he is creating.

 

[AndreRoy]

"None of which you would trade straight up." Dude listen to yourself. You're sounding as hysterical as the Oiler fans you're calling out.

McDavid is the best player in the league. Most fans know it. GMs know it. The rest of the NHL knows it.

These threads are terrible. They are only designed to get a fan base riled up. Why? We all know the Oilers aren't trading McDavid. Just as the Lightning aren't going to trade Kucherov.

There’s nothing hysterical about it - McDavid doesn’t get Kucherov or Hedman straight up and depending on what Point ultimately signs for McD probably doesn’t get him either. And yet Oilers fans think they should get all three, or two of them with multiple significant plusses added. And we aren’t even asking for McD in the first place.

All Oilers fans want to do in these threads is have a massive circle jerk about how valuable they think McDavid is and to annoy every other fanbase by creating insane unilateral demands for him when many of those fanbases aren’t interested in him in the first place. It’s obnoxious and it’s taken place several times already; we don’t need to do it again just because the playoffs are coming and they’re completely irrelevant to those discussions.

 

[GOilers88]

There’s nothing hysterical about it - McDavid doesn’t get Kucherov or Hedman straight up and depending on what Point ultimately signs for McD probably doesn’t get him either. And yet Oilers fans think they should get all three, or two of them with multiple significant plusses added. And we aren’t even asking for McD in the first place.

All Oilers fans want to do in these threads is have a massive circle jerk about how valuable they think McDavid is and to annoy every other fanbase by creating insane unilateral demands for him when many of those fanbases aren’t interested in him in the first place. It’s obnoxious and it’s taken place several times already; we don’t need to do it again just because the playoffs are coming and they’re completely irrelevant to those discussions.

Lol. You're right, the best player in the league doesn't get you anyone in a straight swap...

You must also be right when you say most fanbases wouldn't want the best player in the league on their team.

This guy f***ing nailed it.

 

[Patagonia]

There’s nothing hysterical about it - McDavid doesn’t get Kucherov or Hedman straight up and depending on what Point ultimately signs for McD probably doesn’t get him either. And yet Oilers fans think they should get all three, or two of them with multiple significant plusses added. And we aren’t even asking for McD in the first place.

All Oilers fans want to do in these threads is have a massive circle jerk about how valuable they think McDavid is and to annoy every other fanbase by creating insane unilateral demands for him when many of those fanbases aren’t interested in him in the first place. It’s obnoxious and it’s taken place several times already; we don’t need to do it again just because the playoffs are coming and they’re completely irrelevant to those discussions.

I'm not even an Oilers fan...but this is a terrible valuation of players.

McDavid is the best player in the league. Most fans, players and management tend to agree. Every team would love to add him to their roster, but can't see the Oilers trading even though this might be the right move for the team on the potential haul.

 

[IceBoxHockey]

There’s nothing hysterical about it - McDavid doesn’t get Kucherov or Hedman straight up and depending on what Point ultimately signs for McD probably doesn’t get him either. And yet Oilers fans think they should get all three, or two of them with multiple significant plusses added. And we aren’t even asking for McD in the first place.

All Oilers fans want to do in these threads is have a massive circle jerk about how valuable they think McDavid is and to annoy every other fanbase by creating insane unilateral demands for him when many of those fanbases aren’t interested in him in the first place. It’s obnoxious and it’s taken place several times already; we don’t need to do it again just because the playoffs are coming and they’re completely irrelevant to those discussions.

Whoof. This is hard to read.

Regardless of what point signs for he doesn’t come close to McDavids value.

 

[Herschel]

Going to enter the fray...

The Oilers are not better off trading McDavid for any other elite player like Hedman or Kucherov, even if picks or a prospect were added. There are definitely tradable packages that make the Oilers more competitive and likely take them to the playoffs.

Neither of these answer the OP question of are the Oiler better off because "better off" is subjective. If your goal is being a contender for 3-5 seasons with a shot at multiple cups then there is no honest argument for trading McDavid.

 

[AndreRoy]

I'm not even an Oilers fan...but this is a terrible valuation of players.

No, it isn’t; you’re just limited in your analytical abilities and haven’t thought this through deeply enough.

Kucherov is neck and neck with McDavid for the best player in the game, but even after Kuch’s next contract kicks in McDavid will still be making almost 32% more than him. That is a massive difference and makes Kucherov easily the more valuable player in a cap league. The Lightning don’t make that trade even before taking team need into account; add in the fact that they already have two elite 1Cs in Point and Stamkos as well as a very good 2C literally waiting at the wing in Johnson and there’s simply zero reason why they would even consider trading Kuch for McDavid.

As for Hedman, we’re talking about comparing the best center in the game with one of the best defensemen in the game. While Hedman is capable of stretches of dominant play he obviously isn’t the consistent force that McDavid is, so in a vacuum McDavid is indeed the more valuable player. But when you look at contracts and team need, the fact that McDavid is almost 59% more expensive than Hedman along with the Lightning needing their Norris-winning 1D a lot more than yet another elite center means that they don’t make that trade either.

Finally, Point. This one I said I wasn’t sure about because it all hinges on what his next contract ends up being. As with Hedman McDavid is more valuable than Point in a vacuum, though the gap is not nearly as large as some may think: both are excellent goal scorers, McDavid is the better playmaker and all-around offensive force, and Point is the better defensive center. In a vacuum you take McDavid but it’s not a massive gap between them, and if Point signs a longterm deal at around $9.5M or especially if he takes a bridge deal at around $7M the Lightning would certainly prefer the slightly lesser player with the significantly better contract given their cap situation.

 

[Guffman]

Would Edmonton improve if they traded McDavid and got a great haul? As it stands now, his supporting cast is WAY too weak to get the team to a contending level - and let's be honest, Edmonton does not have an amazing pool of prospects either.

"What if"..

Winnepeg: McDavid

Edmonton: Scheifele, Morrissey, Connor.


Would Edmonton be a better team?

Would Winnepeg be worse?


Feel free to post other proposals from strong franchises, prying McDavid out of Edmonton - making them a better team in the process.

That’s interesting.

Now, when Morrissey and Conner are on their next contracts, they add $10M more to Edmonton’s salary cap (less the two contracts Edmonton frees up for their roster spots). Edmonton would have to cut elsewhere, so it’s not a slam dunk that they are better.

For Winnipeg, they save $10M but have to fill in a couple of spots. Maybe they overpay a bit for Trouba to lessen Morrissey’s loss and the Jets have enough forward depth to fill in Conner’s spot somewhat plus a few bucks to spare.

Anyways, interesting proposal but we have to look beyond the talent coming in/out and also factor the salary cap change.

Edit: Just went through the whole thread. How come not a single poster even factors in the salary cap differential when discussing this? This is such an unsophisticated discussion.

 

[Heldig]

Dermott
Kapanen
Liljegren
Kadri
Brown
2020 1st

for

McDavid
Larsson

we can figure out the cap later

While that is a lot to trade away clearly Edmonton would demand some combo of Marner or Matthews and probably Reilly.

 

[Draiskull]

No, it isn’t; you’re just limited in your analytical abilities and haven’t thought this through deeply enough.

Kucherov is neck and neck with McDavid for the best player in the game, but even after Kuch’s next contract kicks in McDavid will still be making almost 32% more than him. That is a massive difference and makes Kucherov easily the more valuable player in a cap league. The Lightning don’t make that trade even before taking team need into account; add in the fact that they already have two elite 1Cs in Point and Stamkos as well as a very good 2C literally waiting at the wing in Johnson and there’s simply zero reason why they would even consider trading Kuch for McDavid.

As for Hedman, we’re talking about comparing the best center in the game with one of the best defensemen in the game. While Hedman is capable of stretches of dominant play he obviously isn’t the consistent force that McDavid is, so in a vacuum McDavid is indeed the more valuable player. But when you look at contracts and team need, the fact that McDavid is almost 59% more expensive than Hedman along with the Lightning needing their Norris-winning 1D a lot more than yet another elite center means that they don’t make that trade either.

Finally, Point. This one I said I wasn’t sure about because it all hinges on what his next contract ends up being. As with Hedman McDavid is more valuable than Point in a vacuum, though the gap is not nearly as large as some may think: both are excellent goal scorers, McDavid is the better playmaker and all-around offensive force, and Point is the better defensive center. In a vacuum you take McDavid but it’s not a massive gap between them, and if Point signs a longterm deal at around $9.5M or especially if he takes a bridge deal at around $7M the Lightning would certainly prefer the slightly lesser player with the significantly better contract given their cap situation.

lol @ Kucherov being more valuable player than McDavid. Its not even close in favor of McDavid no matter what the media people vote on.
Kucherov the winger plays on a team that has scored 80 more goals than the Oilers.
Kucherov doesnt sniff anything close to 100pts with Drai and RNH instead of Stamkos and Point as his C. McDavid on TB would be dynamite.

also lol @ Point being anything close to McDavid in value.
Hedman is a beast and the best Dman in the league so I will give you a pass there.

Trading McDavid would be uber stupid for the Oilers no matter what the return.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

The only way something like this could ever work is if an already good team somehow acquired a surplus of prospects or were extremely lucky in their development. We're talking 90s Detroit lucky. No team is going to give up basically the equivalent of a whole first line of young players for McDavid.

Quite frankly, Edmonton doesn't need to trade McDavid. They need Katz to say the f*** away from the team, and for him to hire competent people. Edmonton's issues are due to incompetent management ala the type signing Lucic for that disgusting contract.

 

[AndreRoy]

lol @ Kucherov being more valuable player than McDavid. Its not even close in favor of McDavid no matter what the media people vote on.
Kucherov the winger plays on a team that has scored 80 more goals than the Oilers.
Kucherov doesnt sniff anything close to 100pts with Drai and RNH instead of Stamkos and Point as his C. McDavid on TB would be dynamite.

also lol @ Point being anything close to McDavid in value.
Hedman is a beast and the best Dman in the league so I will give you a pass there.

Trading McDavid would be uber stupid for the Oilers no matter what the return.

Ahh, the old circular argument. Kucherov outscores McDavid, but it’s only because his team outscores McDavid’s team which of course has nothing to do with Kucherov himself. Kucherov is only elite because he plays with Point and Stamkos, who are only elite because they play with Kuch. Meanwhile McDavid despite supposedly being such a far superior player is not to blame for his team scoring less than Kucherov’s, and he doesn’t benefit at all from playing with Drasaitl. Gotcha.

 

[Patagonia]

No, it isn’t; you’re just limited in your analytical abilities and haven’t thought this through deeply enough.

Kucherov is neck and neck with McDavid for the best player in the game, but even after Kuch’s next contract kicks in McDavid will still be making almost 32% more than him. That is a massive difference and makes Kucherov easily the more valuable player in a cap league. The Lightning don’t make that trade even before taking team need into account; add in the fact that they already have two elite 1Cs in Point and Stamkos as well as a very good 2C literally waiting at the wing in Johnson and there’s simply zero reason why they would even consider trading Kuch for McDavid.

As for Hedman, we’re talking about comparing the best center in the game with one of the best defensemen in the game. While Hedman is capable of stretches of dominant play he obviously isn’t the consistent force that McDavid is, so in a vacuum McDavid is indeed the more valuable player. But when you look at contracts and team need, the fact that McDavid is almost 59% more expensive than Hedman along with the Lightning needing their Norris-winning 1D a lot more than yet another elite center means that they don’t make that trade either.

Finally, Point. This one I said I wasn’t sure about because it all hinges on what his next contract ends up being. As with Hedman McDavid is more valuable than Point in a vacuum, though the gap is not nearly as large as some may think: both are excellent goal scorers, McDavid is the better playmaker and all-around offensive force, and Point is the better defensive center. In a vacuum you take McDavid but it’s not a massive gap between them, and if Point signs a longterm deal at around $9.5M or especially if he takes a bridge deal at around $7M the Lightning would certainly prefer the slightly lesser player with the significantly better contract given their cap situation.

McDavid should be downgraded due to his contract value? I’m sure teams would more than gladly pay his salary which is likely considered an underpayment.

However, if salaries weighted so heavily Mackinnon would be considered the most valued player in the league. He earns half of McDavid and 35% less than Kucherov. He plays on an inferior team and being a 1C more valued than Kucherov playing wing. The +/- is nearly the same even though he is nearly 30 points ahead.

McDavid and McKinnon are considered franchise players, just don’t see Kucherov at that same level.