Would an NBA Team Work In Pittsburgh?

[MikeCubs]

Pittsburgh metro area is 2.3 million. It's the 23rd biggest metro area in the country. The CSA is 2.65 million. And the population stopped declining 10 years ago.

With that being said, no the NBA should not come here. If I'm the NBA I'm focusing on San Diego, Seattle, or KC.

The pop has still declined since 2010 by 37,000ish(1.39%).

Combined statistical area - Wikipedia

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I totally think it'd succeed. It's one of my top five places for an NBA team. They have the arena all ready to go and everything, they could even join Las Vegas and Seattle in the expansion.

 

[End on a Hinote]

IMO Pittsburgh should aim for an MLS team.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

The problem isn’t whether they have enough fan base to sell season tickets, the problem is is there enough corporate dollars to be split amongst four teams?

 

[MikeCubs]

The problem isn’t whether they have enough fan base to sell season tickets, the problem is is there enough corporate dollars to be split amongst four teams?

The smaller the market the less teams because of both population and corporate. There are only so many people and corporate bucks to go around. The NBA has always realized this and it's their greatest strength in my opinion. Other than losing big market Seattle(and probably picking Memphis and New Orleans as markets) their market placement is brilliant. They run a totally noncompetitive league where you can pick the champion before the season starts and can get away with with their avoid competition in small markets mantra.

The NBA has set the attendance record 4 straight years.

NBA breaks all-time attendance record for fourth straight year | NBA.com

The same 2 teams were in the finals 4 straight years. The Durant thing was a joke.

 

[Beauner]

IMO Pittsburgh should aim for an MLS team.

Eh, we have the riverhounds and they baaaarely put a blip on the sports radar. I want to see them succeed, cool stadium that apparently can expand to MLS capacity (not sure how) but they have a ways to go before being MLS ready

 

[StreetHawk]

NBA markets that don’t have an NHL team are:
Portland, Sacramento, Houston, Utah, SAN Antonio, Indiana, Milwaukee, OKC, New Orleans, Atlanta.

I would net out Cleveland and Columbus, Carolina and Charlotte, Nashville and Memphis, Orlando and TB. Same state despite not same city.

Of that top group, Houston can support multiple teams, then Atlanta. Only Indiana and NO have NFL teams. Milwaukee has Packers not too far away. The other 5, they are the only game in town.

NBA is star driven. So, while your team won’t win a championship you can see great performances, or at least some nice plays each game. That’s their hook.

 

[iamjs]

Pittsburgh is declining population wise also.

Pittsburgh's population has been around 300k for the last decade and might have fluctuated by a thousand or two since 2010.

NBA free agents would reject Pittsburgh just like they do every other small market.

just like the athletes in other sports who end up retiring in Pittsburgh and staying? :shrug:

 

[MikeCubs]

Pittsburgh's population has been around 300k for the last decade and might have fluctuated by a thousand or two since 2010.

just like the athletes in other sports who end up retiring in Pittsburgh and staying? :shrug:

City population is meaningless. CSA/ metro is what counts when it comes to market size for sports.

NBA athletes aren't like other sports athletes. Most have 0 use for small markets and leave. NBA superstars only want big markets other than a few outliers like Russell Westbrook. Getting an NBA athlete to stay in a small market or Toronto for that matter is like trying to win the lottery. The NBA is a super team sport the last 8 years the other 3 sports are not. NFL/MLB/NHL athletes like to compete. The NBA is the if you can't beat em join em league.

 

[MikeCubs]

NBA markets that don’t have an NHL team are:
Portland, Sacramento, Houston, Utah, SAN Antonio, Indiana, Milwaukee, OKC, New Orleans, Atlanta.

I would net out Cleveland and Columbus, Carolina and Charlotte, Nashville and Memphis, Orlando and TB. Same state despite not same city.

Of that top group, Houston can support multiple teams, then Atlanta. Only Indiana and NO have NFL teams. Milwaukee has Packers not too far away. The other 5, they are the only game in town.

NBA is star driven. So, while your team won’t win a championship you can see great performances, or at least some nice plays each game. That’s their hook.

Most of the 2nd group you list are a long ways away despite being in the same state. TV may be a factor but corporate/fans buying tickets aren't that much of a factor.

Of the bottom 10 teams CSA wise only Milwaukee competes with either the NHL or MLB. The rest are 1 team only or once a week NFL. This is why the NBA can run a non competitive sport.

Your last sentence is the NBA's brilliance/hook and sums it up perfectly. That is the magic!

 

[iamjs]

City population is meaningless. CSA/ metro is what counts when it comes to market size for sports.

NBA athletes aren't like other sports athletes. Most have 0 use for small markets and leave. NBA superstars only want big markets other than a few outliers like Russell Westbrook. Getting an NBA athlete to stay in a small market or Toronto for that matter is like trying to win the lottery. The NBA is a super team sport the last 8 years the other 3 sports are not. NFL/MLB/NHL athletes like to compete. The NBA is the if you can't beat em join em league.

Well I'm glad you have it all figured out. I guess it would be pointless to add anything.

 

[HisIceness]

That won't work.

The problem with doing that are 2 fold.

1. The Predators owner would have to be the owner or else the team would be a tenant. The only tenants in the NBA big market teams and mid market Detroit who the Red Wings gave a sweet hart deal since they wanted foot traffic for the stuff they are supposed building around Little Cesar's Arena .

2. Nashville would be the smallest 3 team market in pro sports CSA wise by lot. The current smallest 3 team city is Pittsburgh at 2,623,639. Nashville is only 2,027,489 though it does have a fast growth rate.
It would also be the smallest NBA-NHL market. Denver is next at 3,515,374 and that don't count Fort Collins(343,976) which is close enough it should be part of Denver's CSA and Colorado Springs(723,878) which is boarder line for a CSA.

The NHL got gold when they got Nashville with it's bigger size/excellent growth rate/being a nice city. The NBA got a lemon with Memphis(no growth, bad attendance, crime hole). The right thing to do is just leave Tennessee. The NHL won Tennessee, NBA lost.

Maybe very long term with the growth rate the NBA could come another 20-30 years from now unless MLB came instead. For now 2 teams is perfect for Nashville.

I have family who live in Memphis and they told me about 3 years ago when the Grizzlies were decent that the overall interest was so-so. Basically the Grizz were always going to be 2nd round fodder at best, and the firing of Lionel Hollins after the teams best season ever pissed a lot of people off, this past season them firing Fizdale and keeping declining Gasol instead didn't win anyone over. They play in a nice arena but the team isn't going to be good for awhile now. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they did one day relocate. Interestingly enough when they left Vancouver I believe San Diego or St. Louis was the preffered destination but for one reason or another, they landed in Memphis.

You are correct in the bolded statement. Nashville is terrific for the NHL and is what they look for in a market. Solid economy/growth, educated population, young-ish population, lots of transplants. Nashville has become a destination city in the last 10 years.

Memphis OTOH despite having similar qualities as Nashville (BBQ, music), has become the complete opposite. I was there recently for the first time and I taken aback by how bad it was, the city outside Graceland and the Downtown area is iffy at best. The joke among folks from Nashville apparently is that Memphis is the largest city in Mississippi. There's potential for Memphis to become Nashville-lite so to say, but it doesn't look like they will ever get there. It's saved by FedEx and Elvis from being a larger Jackson, Mississippi.

 

[MikeCubs]

I have family who live in Memphis and they told me about 3 years ago when the Grizzlies were decent that the overall interest was so-so. Basically the Grizz were always going to be 2nd round fodder at best, and the firing of Lionel Hollins after the teams best season ever pissed a lot of people off, this past season them firing Fizdale and keeping declining Gasol instead didn't win anyone over. They play in a nice arena but the team isn't going to be good for awhile now. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they did one day relocate. Interestingly enough when they left Vancouver I believe San Diego or St. Louis was the preffered destination but for one reason or another, they landed in Memphis.

You are correct in the bolded statement. Nashville is terrific for the NHL and is what they look for in a market. Solid economy/growth, educated population, young-ish population, lots of transplants. Nashville has become a destination city in the last 10 years.

Memphis OTOH despite having similar qualities as Nashville (BBQ, music), has become the complete opposite. I was there recently for the first time and I taken aback by how bad it was, the city outside Graceland and the Downtown area is iffy at best. The joke among folks from Nashville apparently is that Memphis is the largest city in Mississippi. There's potential for Memphis to become Nashville-lite so to say, but it doesn't look like they will ever get there. It's saved by FedEx and Elvis from being a larger Jackson, Mississippi.

Thanks for the great summary of Memphis!

St. Louis was the originally destination but the NBA blocked it. Interestingly both the Vancouver Grizzlies and original Charlotte Hornets both applied to move to Memphis on March 26,2001.

ESPN.com - NBA - Each team files application for relocation

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Thanks for the great summary of Memphis!

St. Louis was the originally destination but the NBA blocked it. Interestingly both the Vancouver Grizzlies and original Charlotte Hornets both applied to move to Memphis on March 26,2001.

ESPN.com - NBA - Each team files application for relocation

St Louis has not been a great market outside of the MLB Cardinals the blues have had 50+ years of losing money and both the NFL teams where low In league value even if the rams ended up not moveing they where going to have to play home games in London with the lower revenue teams

 

[MikeCubs]

St Louis has not been a great market outside of the MLB Cardinals the blues have had 50+ years of losing money and both the NFL teams where low In league value even if the rams ended up not moveing they where going to have to play home games in London with the lower revenue teams

Totally agree. Before the Rams left St. Louis was already the second smallest 3 team market next to Pittsburgh and has stagnant population growth. A 4th team would have been a total debacle.

The Rams and Blues cannibalized each other

Blues may benefit most from Rams departure

In the 2 seasons since the Rams have left the Blues have made money per forbes(3.2M and 9.2M last season)

St Louis Blues on the Forbes The Business of Hockey List

I was a major supporter of Rams to LA. That was the original LA team, St. Louis had 1 too many teams and a second stadium in a 20 year span was a total waste of money given the low local interest in the Rams and given the other local vital important non sport needs. It was a win for everyone that the Rams left.

The Blues had the long history in St. Louis and the renovation to the arena was a fraction of the cost of a new football stadium that would be used only 8 times a year.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Pittsburgh metro area is 2.3 million. It's the 23rd biggest metro area in the country. The CSA is 2.65 million. And the population stopped declining 10 years ago.

With that being said, no the NBA should not come here. If I'm the NBA I'm focusing on San Diego, Seattle, or KC.

Southern California dose not need 3 NBA teams it will always be Lakers Country even if the Clippers and Rockets both played there

 

[MikeCubs]

Southern California dose not need 3 NBA teams it will always be Lakers Country even if the Clippers and Rockets both played there

San Diego's second team should be a return of the Chargers. The NFL/Kroenke should pay the public portion need for a new stadium under the guise of a territory rights fee. The LA move is a joke. It's really going to stand out when the move into the 70,000 seat new stadium and no one is there.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

San Diego's second team should be a return of the Chargers. The NFL/Kroenke should pay the public portion need for a new stadium under the guise of a territory rights fee. The LA move is a joke. It's really going to stand out when the move into the 70,000 seat new stadium and no one is there.

The NFL tried 3 teams in Southern CA in the 80s and the first half of the 90s and the rams in Angel stadium where cannibalized by the Chargers and Raiders 1993 NFL Attendance Data | Pro-Football-Reference.com if the NBA Puts a third team in Southern CA the clippers and the Sand Diego team would suffer the Lakers would do well regardless

 

[MikeCubs]

The NFL tried 3 teams in Southern CA in the 80s and the first half of the 90s and the rams in Angel stadium where cannibalized by the Chargers and Raiders 1993 NFL Attendance Data | Pro-Football-Reference.com if the NBA Puts a third team in Southern CA the clippers and the Sand Diego team would suffer the Lakers would do well regardless

What hurt the most was fans knew it was a lame duck too.

Rams LA and Chargers SD is best and what they went with the longest. LA has tons of transplant NFL fans plus USC and UCLA. 1 team is enough for LA.

The 3 team set up does work well in baseball but all those teams have long histories. Dodgers/Angels draw great, the Padres are alright but nothing great. The Lakers would kill any San Diego team as you say.

 

[tony d]

I've often wondered it myself. I think the NBA expands to 32 soon, got to think Pittsburgh's among the 2nd or 3rd tier of cities being considered.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

I've often wondered it myself. I think the NBA expands to 32 soon, got to think Pittsburgh's among the 2nd or 3rd tier of cities being considered.

The nba is not expanding anytime soon they have been giving Seattle the tv deal speech since before the current tv deal was signed if a Jeff bezos type wants to pay 3 billion for a expansion team in Seattle it whould probably change there minds though

 

[Beauner]

I've often wondered it myself. I think the NBA expands to 32 soon, got to think Pittsburgh's among the 2nd or 3rd tier of cities being considered.

Random thought but who would own the club? Cant imagine Burkle and/or Lemieux having much interest in a basketball tean