Would an NBA Team Work In Pittsburgh?

Big McLargehuge

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The NBA in its formative years never considered Pittsburgh and were content to have a team in Syracuse.

Today it is a Steelers town by a considerable margin and the Pens and Pirates are a distant #2 or #3.

The Pens are most certainly not a distant #2, at least not among the under 50 crowd.

Basketball would fail in Pittsburgh, though, at least for now. I'm softening on my 'this is the worst idea ever' stance I've had forever, but it's still a horrible idea. Pittsburgh isn't big enough to support four teams, nor do I think there is any real desire for a NBA team...at least among the over 20 crowd.

The way people talk about hockey not existing in parts of America - that was basketball in Pittsburgh in the 80s & 90s. It's grown since then, but it's not hard to grow from nothing. Basketball in Pittsburgh is like hockey in Indianapolis...it exists and there's probably more support than most people think, but it's still gotta be around the 10th most appealing option as a new market.
 

No Fun Shogun

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I can't speak for Pittsburgh, I'm not going to remotely claim to be an insider on their sports scene, but that being said I would imagine that some bigger and/or untapped markets would be higher on the NBA's hit list for future teams. Off the top of my head, international expansion to Mexico City or Montreal/back to Vancouver, bringing back the Sonics, adding a team to Louisville, getting Reinsdorf to be on board with a second team in Chicago, and finding a willing owner in Kansas City would be higher priorities than Pittsburgh from the league's perspective.

Then again, maybe the mega lottery winner is a Pittsburgh transplant in the Carolinas, so....
 

Hockeyholic

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The Pens are most certainly not a distant #2, at least not among the under 50 crowd.

Basketball would fail in Pittsburgh, though, at least for now. I'm softening on my 'this is the worst idea ever' stance I've had forever, but it's still a horrible idea. Pittsburgh isn't big enough to support four teams, nor do I think there is any real desire for a NBA team...at least among the over 20 crowd.

The way people talk about hockey not existing in parts of America - that was basketball in Pittsburgh in the 80s & 90s. It's grown since then, but it's not hard to grow from nothing. Basketball in Pittsburgh is like hockey in Indianapolis...it exists and there's probably more support than most people think, but it's still gotta be around the 10th most appealing option as a new market.


I always assumed the Steelers and Buccos respectively dominated the sports landscape. In most US cities, baseball comes before Hockey.
 

Beauner

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I always assumed the Steelers and Buccos respectively dominated the sports landscape. In most US cities, baseball comes before Hockey.
Nah the Pens and Steelers are by far the most popular teams. The Pirates' general apathy towards winning may have something to do with that. But also you see guys like Trochek, Miller, Gibson in the NHL coming from Pittsburgh. The only notable MLB player since Neil Walker has been Ian Happ
 

edog37

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I always assumed the Steelers and Buccos respectively dominated the sports landscape. In most US cities, baseball comes before Hockey.

The Pirates have been irrelevant for over 20 years. Baseball is dying in Pittsburgh & I say good riddance.
 

varsaku

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Pittsburg won’t add any additional value to the league by placing a team there. They should test Mexico City for its interest in NBA and maybe expand there.
 
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Big McLargehuge

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I always assumed the Steelers and Buccos respectively dominated the sports landscape. In most US cities, baseball comes before Hockey.

The Bucs are a distant third in Pittsburgh, thanks to decades of shitty owners and lousy play...give them a non-horrible owner and a good team and then they'll be more competitive, but a couple good years every 30 years doesn't do much to endear yourself to fans. I'm a Pirates fan and I hate the Pirates...it's a lovely relationship.
 
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MikeCubs

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Pittsburg won’t add any additional value to the league by placing a team there. They should test Mexico City for its interest in NBA and maybe expand there.

They've had 2 exhibition games there they past few years and they sold out. They have 2 more again this year. A league owned G-League team is coming soon as the next test run.

Silver hinted in December he wants Mexico City

View image on Twitter


Marc Stein✔@TheSteinLine

NBA commissioner Adam Silver is realistic about the NFL's advantages in terms of European expansion, conceding that "they have an opportunity potentially in Europe that we may not in the short term." More Silver:​
 
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aqib

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They've had 2 exhibition games there they past few years and they sold out. They have 2 more again this year. A league owned G-League team is coming soon as the next test run.

Silver hinted in December he wants Mexico City

View image on Twitter


Marc Stein✔@TheSteinLine

NBA commissioner Adam Silver is realistic about the NFL's advantages in terms of European expansion, conceding that "they have an opportunity potentially in Europe that we may not in the short term." More Silver:​

What if the NBA or NHL had their training camps in Europe or Asia like how baseball does with spring training. Yes I get that baseball needs to do that because of weather issues but having the preseason games in other countries could help build out your fan base.
 
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MikeCubs

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What if the NBA or NHL had their training camps in Europe or Asia like how baseball does with spring training. Yes I get that baseball needs to do that because of weather issues but having the preseason games in other countries could help build out your fan base.

Absolutely great idea!!!! NBA does have pre season games every year in China. Why not have rotating teams do an entire camp there yearly.
 

gordie

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Let's look at it by the numbers.

Cost: $800 to 1.5 Billion relocated or expansion
New Arena: $500 to $800 million (no taxpayer dollars)

I say new arena because the Pittsburgh Penguins aren't giving up prime dates in an arena it took them 15 years to get built to the NBA

I see no one in Pittsburgh willing to spend that kind of money on the "iffy" proposition of the NBA in Pittsburgh and no taxpayer dollars will ever be made available. If the NBA is looking away from Major League cities like San Diego, Baltimore, Cincinnati all with no NHL team and all need new arenas and Kansas City with a new arena and no NHL, why would Pittsburgh even make any list for the NBA?
 

patnyrnyg

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If they win, it will be successful. If not, then no. Just like almost every other team in the NBA. The Penguins are in the same boat. They were not selling out in the years between Mario and Crosby and I expect the same will happen when Crosby and Malkin retire if they do not get another superstar to make them almost instant contenders.
 

Beauner

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If they win, it will be successful. If not, then no. Just like almost every other team in the NBA. The Penguins are in the same boat. They were not selling out in the years between Mario and Crosby and I expect the same will happen when Crosby and Malkin retire if they do not get another superstar to make them almost instant contenders.
Between Mario and Crosby they had one of the worst teams to ever play in the NHL. Besides Canadian markets, what team would sell out to watch a team like that?
 

aqib

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What? Every baseball team trains in Florida or Arizona. I don't think teams like the idea of travelling halfway around the world for training camp.

Yes I know every baseball team trains in Florida or Arizona. Thats what I said. I was saying that hypothetically NBA or NHL teams could have their camps and preseasons overseas and it would serve as a marketing opportunity.
 

Centrum Hockey

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I don't think staying afloat is a real issue for any NBA team. A team can exist and survive most anywhere at this point with that TV contract assuming player salaries don't go insane.

Not creating another revenue sharing recipient is another question, and I don't know that there's a market in America where that's not a risk outside of Seattle. There's not the same amount of holes in the NBA market map as there are in the NHL market map.
the NBA has said they dont want to expand The Memphis Grizzlies have consistently lost money and the OKC market has never been tested Yet they have always had a top 20 player even the okc hornets had Chris Paul. a bad team for several years in the 45 largest market may concern the NBA Major Pro Sports Teams By TV Market Size
 
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MikeCubs

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the NBA has said they dont want to expand The Memphis Grizzlies have consistently lost money and the OKC market has never been tested Yet they have always had a top 20 player even the okc hornets had Chris Paul. a bad team for several years in the 45 largest market may concern the NBA Major Pro Sports Teams By TV Market Size

The NBA said they don't want to expand at this time, not that they will never expand.

OKC has been tested. They supported the Hornets even though it wasn't their team(giving themselves the shot at a team) and they did lose Durant/Harden. Year 1 in OKC the team was also a lottery team. They are also one of the few places that voted for giving a pro sports team a subsidy. When they renovated the arena before the Thunder came the public did get to vote. Post Westbrook they may not sell out but it's not like they will become Memphis. It's not like the current Thunder are that great. GS, Houston, LAL, probably Utah are all better teams. Thunder are nothing but a 1st round exit team.

OKC has a pretty good population growth rate too(they will move up the list of cities) plus Tulsa is in state for TV. % wise since 2010 for CSA's they have a faster growth rate than places like the Bay Area, Portland, Washington DC, San Diego, LA, Minneapolis, Boston, New York, Chicago, and Philly.

Memphis I agree. Smallest market, no population growth, no upside, long history of losing $$$. If it was me I'd move them to Seattle.

I also wonder about New Orleans. The second least valuable team in a small market(smaller than OKC TV wise) with a poor attendance history. What happens if Anthony Davis leaves? Attendance even with him is shaky. New Orleans doesn't have that great of a growth rate/upside either unlike OKC and has 1 other team to compete with though it is only the once a week NFL.

My guess is they will keep Memphis and New Orleans and expand to Seattle and Mexico City(if logistics work). Memphis/New Orleans have been rumored to move a lot in the past and they never do.
 
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Centrum Hockey

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The NBA said they don't want to expand at this time, not that they will never expand.

OKC has been tested. They supported the Hornets even though it wasn't their team(giving themselves the shot at a team) and they did lose Durant/Harden. Year 1 in OKC the team was also a lottery team. They are also one of the few places that voted for giving a pro sports team a subsidy. When they renovated the arena before the Thunder came the public did get to vote. Post Westbrook they may not sell out but it's not like they will become Memphis. It's not like the current Thunder are that great. GS, Houston, LAL, probably Utah are all better teams. Thunder are nothing but a 1st round exit team.

OKC has a pretty good population growth rate too(they will move up the list of cities) plus Tulsa is in state for TV. % wise since 2010 CSA wise they have a faster growth rate than places like the Bay Area, Portland, Washington DC, San Diego, LA, Minneapolis, Boston, New York, Chicago, and Philly.

Memphis I agree. Smallest market, no population growth, no upside, long history of losing $$$. If it was me I'd move them to Seattle.

I also wonder about New Orleans. The second least valuable team in a small market(smaller than OKC) with a poor attendance history. What happens if Anthony Davis leaves? New Orleans doesn't have that great of a growth rate either unlike OKC and has 1 other team to compete with though it is only the once a week NFL.

My guess is they will keep Memphis and New Orleans and expand to Seattle and Mexico City(if logistics work). Memphis/New Orleans have been rumored to move a lot in the past and they never do.
If they are intent on keeping Memphis and New Orleans and expanding silver and Robert Pera should try to work out a deal with the predators to move to Nashville music city would be far more lucrative for the nba
 
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MikeCubs

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If there intent on keeping Memphis and New Orleans and expanding silver and Robert Pera should try to work out a deal with the predators to move to Nashville music city would be far more lucrative for the nba

That won't work.

The problem with doing that are 2 fold.

1. The Predators owner would have to be the owner or else the team would be a tenant. The only tenants in the NBA big market teams and mid market Detroit who the Red Wings gave a sweet hart deal since they wanted foot traffic for the stuff they are supposed building around Little Cesar's Arena .

2. Nashville would be the smallest 3 team market in pro sports CSA wise by lot. The current smallest 3 team city is Pittsburgh at 2,623,639. Nashville is only 2,027,489 though it does have a fast growth rate.
It would also be the smallest NBA-NHL market. Denver is next at 3,515,374 and that don't count Fort Collins(343,976) which is close enough it should be part of Denver's CSA and Colorado Springs(723,878) which is boarder line for a CSA.

The NHL got gold when they got Nashville with it's bigger size/excellent growth rate/being a nice city. The NBA got a lemon with Memphis(no growth, bad attendance, crime hole). The right thing to do is just leave Tennessee. The NHL won Tennessee, NBA lost.

Maybe very long term with the growth rate the NBA could come another 20-30 years from now unless MLB came instead. For now 2 teams is perfect for Nashville.
 
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Centrum Hockey

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That won't work.

The problem with doing that are 2 fold.

1. The Predators owner would have to be the owner or else the team would be a tenant. The only tenants in the NBA big market teams and mid market Detroit who the Red Wings gave a sweet hart deal since they wanted foot traffic for the stuff they are supposed building around Little Cesar's Arena .

2. Nashville would be the smallest 3 team market in pro sports CSA wise by lot. The current smallest 3 team city is Pittsburgh at 2,623,639. Nashville is only 2,027,489 though it does have a fast growth rate.
It would also be the smallest NBA-NHL market. Denver is next at 3,515,374 and that don't count Fort Collins(343,976) which is close enough it should be part of Denver's CSA and Colorado Springs(723,878) which is boarder line for a CSA.

The NHL got gold when they got Nashville with it's bigger size/excellent growth rate/being a nice city. The NBA got a lemon with Memphis(no growth, bad attendance, crime hole). The right thing to do is just leave Tennessee. The NHL won Tennessee, NBA lost.

Maybe very long term with the growth rate the NBA could come another 20-30 years from now unless MLB came instead. For now 2 teams is perfect for Nashville.
apparently some large market teams told small market teams to consider relocating according to an article from last year What happens when 30 NBA owners can't share $24 billion?
Memphis lost 40 million dollars
 

MikeCubs

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apparently some large market teams told small market teams to consider relocating according to an article from last year What happens when 30 NBA owners can't share $24 billion?
Memphis lost 40 million dollars

I saw that. I doubt anyone lost really lost $40M or that 9 teams lost money with the national TV deal(pro sports team are know for cooking the books) but I bet Memphis really did lose quite a bit of money, probably Milwaukee too with the old arena and Atlanta pre-renovation. I know for sure Cleveland did with the big luxury tax bill.
 
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ziggyjoe212

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Pittsburgh is already the smallest 3 team market by 467,760 CSA wise(Tampa is next and the gets screwed because Lakeland and Sarasota should be counted as part of their CSA). Pittsburgh is declining population wise also. The NBA's style is to pick smaller markets with no competition or only the NFL. Pittsburgh goes totally 100% against the NBA model/style.

NBA free agents would reject Pittsburgh just like they do every other small market.
Pittsburgh metro area is 2.3 million. It's the 23rd biggest metro area in the country. The CSA is 2.65 million. And the population stopped declining 10 years ago.

With that being said, no the NBA should not come here. If I'm the NBA I'm focusing on San Diego, Seattle, or KC.
 

Look Up

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When they had a pro basketball team, the Pythons, they struggled for attendance even though they had Dr. J. They even made a movie about it - the Fish That Saved Pittsburgh.
 

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