Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by Cityswiper, Oct 23, 2018.
They'd have four pro sports teams. They could play at PPG Paints arena.
I've asked folks I know who are from Pittsburgh this question.
They've all said no.
I think it "could" happen in the sense that as long as nothing went wrong, they wouldn't lose their team.
That being said, Pittsburgh would be by far the smallest 4-sport city (Denver, current smallest, is over 20% larger by population and considerably higher on the media market list). And, you're not talking about a place where the local teams have left a bunch of fans with nothing to cheer for. An NBA team would be in direct competition with the Steelers and Penguins, both of which have overflowing bandwagons. It would be extremely difficult for a third team to create a niche.
Arena deal. That’s what it comes down to along with how much the NHL/nba owner is worth who is currently in the arena.
Once one team is there it’s pretty much up to that person to buy the other sport. The days of dropping the Stars into Reunion Arena or the Avs into McNochols arena and sharing with the nba team are long over.
So, are the Pens owners rich enough to drop $1.5 billion or so to land an nba team?
Cause the same reasoning holds for Houston, Portland, Atlanta, Milwaukee etc who have nba teams but no nhl. Up to the nba owner to buy one.
You can’t make enough just being a tenant. Not sure how it works for the Celtics and Bruins. In LA, anchultz owners part of the Lakers now.
And it’s not like Denver where they have a wide open, big territory for themselves. Cleveland and Philly aren’t that far away.
We aren't large enough to have four major league sports teams. An NBA team would be a tenant to Lemieux and wouldn't make enough to stay afloat, IMO.
I don't think staying afloat is a real issue for any NBA team. A team can exist and survive most anywhere at this point with that TV contract assuming player salaries don't go insane.
Not creating another revenue sharing recipient is another question, and I don't know that there's a market in America where that's not a risk outside of Seattle. There's not the same amount of holes in the NBA market map as there are in the NHL market map.
It could work but with the team probably would have to win quick. Like the NBA’s version of Vegas quick to establish a strong following competing in the Steelers, Penguins and probably even the Pirates.
I think the NBA has their sights set on Seattle and a market like Louisville once they expand by 2 (they will eventually). In other words, a return of the Sonics and a market where there is no other competition a la Memphis, Orlando, Sacramento, etc. since the NBA likes those places.
Pittsburgh works fine with 3 teams, ditto Cleveland.
Vancouver deserves a real shot
Pittsburgh is already the smallest 3 team market by 467,760 CSA wise(Tampa is next and the gets screwed because Lakeland and Sarasota should be counted as part of their CSA). Pittsburgh is declining population wise also. The NBA's style is to pick smaller markets with no competition or only the NFL. Pittsburgh goes totally 100% against the NBA model/style.
NBA free agents would reject Pittsburgh just like they do every other small market.
Ok, is Canadian team that much worse than small market US teams in terms of national TV ratings in US?
I don't think it's worse at all, I just think it's more difficult. Who in Canada wants a team and can they play the politics enough to get around the Raptors and make themselves the team of Western Canada/French Canada?
I heard Aquillinis are potentially interested, but not at 1 billion dollars.
The NBA in its formative years never considered Pittsburgh and were content to have a team in Syracuse.
Today it is a Steelers town by a considerable margin and the Pens and Pirates are a distant #2 or #3.
Montreal may interest the NBA more because of francophone TV and the NBA is very aware of how well Montreal has responded to Raptors preseason games.
I was working in Calgary last week and was stunned the Flames put the Raptors game on the big screen
Expansion price is $1.5B to $2B. The Canucks owner won't pay that. He only wants a team at his price ala Portland when Paul Allen was alive.
Price tag for new Vancouver NBA team is too rich for Canucks owner
The least valuable NBA team per forbes is Memphis at $1B and forbes is always low on all prices.
It's looking very likely Vancouver will get Portland's G-League team.
Blazers Looking At G-League Squad in Vancouver, BC
When the Raptors are on national TV US networks lose a market share.
Masai Ujiri: it's a "bunch of BS" Raptors aren't on U.S. national TV more
I still remember the Pittsburgh Pipers/Condors of the old ABA. Pipers were a charter ABA team. Won the inaugural ABA Championship in 1967-68, with the talented Connie Hawkins leading the way...
I'm just old.....
If I'm the NBA, I'm going Seattle, Louisville, Kansas City, Montreal before Pittsburgh
Besides Seattle I think they really want Mexico City if it's logistically possible. They are putting a league owned G-League team there as a test run. The NBA thinks a team in Mexico City can do what the Raptors did for Canada.
Louisville's problem is the team would be a tenant to the university. The group bringing the team there floated renovating old Freedom Hall. That won't fly with the NBA. KC would be the smallest 3 team market and the city won't give the NHL/NBA a favorable deal since concerts are so profitable, we've been over Montreal in the other thread.
Don't rule out Vegas long term with it's growth rate/casino money though it would be the smallest current 3 team market.
yeah, idk how well pro ball would work in Louisville.
Its certainly a basketball hotbed with UL and Kentucky, but I think it's more of a college ball hotbed instead of basketball in general.
Similar to how Charlotte worked out. NC is a college hotbed for sure with Duke, UNC, Wake, NC State...but has struggled to support their NBA team(s)
Pittsburgh is barely a basketball town. Few of my buddies have mentioned that they'd love a team but I couldn't care less. Ultimately I think an NBA team would be an abject failure. This isn't a basketball town. When Pitt is doing well there's hype surrounding that but lately the Oakland Zoo has been a ghost town
Pens aren't a distant 2 anymore. At least amongst the younger crowd
Charlotte 1.0 was a great market before the relocation to NO. The 1st 10 years they went over at least 23,000 each year in attendance. They hold NBA records. The problem was the day the arena opened in 1988 it was outdated due to the Palace of Auburn Hills opening the same year, the 1st modern arena in the NBA or NHL with mid level luxury suites. Former owner George Shinn was accused of raping a woman at the same time he wanted a new arena and obviously a new arena wasn't coming after being accused of that.
George Shinn: Ultimate Buzzkill
The public wouldn't build him one but did build one for a future expansion team(Bobcats). He took the Hornet brand with him to New Orleans as a bleep you to the city. No one liked the Bobcats brand and attendance/support was god awful. Since they got the Hornets brand/team history back attendance has gone up to 17,000ish each season, season ticket sales went up to 10,000 year 1 and they got 30 more sponsors year 1.
Charlotte Hornets: New full-season ticket sales second only to Cleveland
Still nothing like old times though and no where close to college basketball though the Hornets are a dull treadmill team.
I'm worried you are right and Louisville will be another Memphis. Other levels of basketball support don't mean great NBA support as you say. Indiana is the basketball state yet historically NBA attendance has been barely passable for the Pacers.
By that way of thinking that would make the Boston Bruins and Boston Celtics a considerably distant #3 and #4 behind the Patriots and Red Sox??
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