Worst Trade in the Doug Wilson Era

[hockfan1991]

Polak and trade with draft picks for Mirco Mueller

I agree, I thought we were trading up for Mantha.

we got Mirco for Mantha and a 2nd, extra 2 we gave to move up. terrible

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

I agree, I thought we were trading up for Mantha.

we got Mirco for Mantha and a 2nd, extra 2 we gave to move up. terrible

Sounds like they had their sights set on a defenseman the entire time.

 

[matt trick]

They would have won at least 1 cup of that deal gets made and Pronger stays healthy. Speaking of which, maybe he never has the eye injury if he’s a Shark instead of going to Anaheim. I also wonder if the Karlsson deal was a make up for blowing the Pronger one.

And I recall your recollection of the cup final to be fairly accurate. For as much as they fluffed Crosby from before game 1 through the undeserved Smythe, he scored 0 goals and had 3 assists (not counting the game 6 en assist with less than a minute). I’ve never heard such a big deal made for a player who really didn’t move the needle for his team.

I think we had been on Kessel before the move to Pittsburgh as well. Not sure we could have afforded him, and doubt Wilson would have matched the assets.

Another rumor was that SJ was in on Ryan O'Reilly. Given his role in the Blue's cup win (and the fact it would have likely been similar (but fewer assets as) the Karlsson-trade makes you wonder about that as a shoulda, woulda, coulda as well. O'Reilly, Hertl, Thornton, Couture, Pavelski, Meier, Labanc, Tienery, Donskoi would have been a pretty ridiculous top 9.

At the time of the Karlsson trade, I had no regrets Wilson kept his powder dry, because Karlsson is such an elite player and they couldn't get both. But we could really use a 70 point selke center at the moment.

 

[Gecklund]

I agree, I thought we were trading up for Mantha.

we got Mirco for Mantha and a 2nd, extra 2 we gave to move up. terrible

Wanna know what's worse? Pretty sure that second was Tyler Bertuzzi. So they got two top 6 forwards for a bottom pairing D.

 

[Pavelski2112]

The trade I most regret is the one not made. Not dealing Carle, Michalek and pieces for Pronger was a huge error. His cap hit was pretty reasonable and he was a top 3 dman. Elite defensively, great first pass, ruthless in front of the net.

Either the Sharks would have a Cup right now, or what happened to Pronger in Philly would've happened here, because Sharks.

At the very least, Anaheim wouldn't have theirs and that would be worth it in itself.

 

[Painful Quandary]

Bonino has played on like 8 teams now. You think he’d still be a Shark right now??

I doubt it, but at least he would not have been on Pittsburgh in 2016. Vancouver gifted Pittsburgh Bonino in a trade for the offensive black hole that is Brandon Sutter when Pittsburgh was facing a cap crunch. That third line was a mismatch in the cup finals after Hertl was injured. Who knows what would have happened if either Bonino trade did not happen?

 

[TheBeard]

Since Pronger has been mentioned, the fact we traded the #2 for #6 and Makarov in 92 or 93? Pronger went 2 to Hartford while we drafted Victor Kozlov. I know it was pre-Dougie, but still.

Also, has anyone mentioned Kipper for a 2nd yet?

 

[Pavelski2112]

Since Pronger has been mentioned, the fact we traded the #2 for #6 and Makarov in 92 or 93? Pronger went 2 to Hartford while we drafted Victor Kozlov.

It's a tough trade, but Makarov was a huge part of that 94 team so it's hard to say it's the worst in franchise history, DW or not. The first draft in 91 was far worse, picking Falloon when Scott Niedermayer was the very next pick (even though that wasn't due to trade).

 

[TheBeard]

It's a tough trade, but Makarov was a huge part of that 94 team so it's hard to say it's the worst in franchise history, DW or not. The first draft in 91 was far worse, picking Falloon when Scott Niedermayer was the very next pick (even though that wasn't due to trade).

I liked the trade at the time, but we were so heavily invested in Russian scouting that we seemed like a biased franchise. But imagine, we could have had Pronger and Neider.

Also, hindsight is 20/20, but imagine thinking that a 5'9 scorer on an expansion team would be a good idea to try and build your team around??

 

[hohosaregood]

I liked the trade at the time, but we were so heavily invested in Russian scouting that we seemed like a biased franchise. But imagine, we could have had Pronger and Neider.

Also, hindsight is 20/20, but imagine thinking that a 5'9 scorer on an expansion team would be a good idea to try and build your team around??

The Ducks basically did that by drafting Paul Kariya right after so it's not the worst thing in the world going for shorties

 

[TheBeard]

The Ducks basically did that by drafting Paul Kariya right after so it's not the worst thing in the world going for shorties

Kariya was much more highly touted.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

I doubt it, but at least he would not have been on Pittsburgh in 2016. Vancouver gifted Pittsburgh Bonino in a trade for the offensive black hole that is Brandon Sutter when Pittsburgh was facing a cap crunch. That third line was a mismatch in the cup finals after Hertl was injured. Who knows what would have happened if either Bonino trade did not happen?

Ain’t that the truth.

 

[hockfan1991]

Wanna know what's worse? Pretty sure that second was Tyler Bertuzzi. So they got two top 6 forwards for a bottom pairing D.

sweet

 

[hockfan1991]

Since Pronger has been mentioned, the fact we traded the #2 for #6 and Makarov in 92 or 93? Pronger went 2 to Hartford while we drafted Victor Kozlov. I know it was pre-Dougie, but still.

Also, has anyone mentioned Kipper for a 2nd yet?

No, it looked bad after the fact. But in hindsight it was solid value, also the pick turned into vlasic.

Keep in mind kip was third on the totem poll behind nabs and toskala.

Kip turned into beast mode for handful of years, but if we would have seen that they are not trading him, or someone is ponying up a lot more

 

[TheBeard]

No, it looked bad after the fact. But in hindsight it was solid value, also the pick turned into vlasic.

Keep in mind kip was third on the totem poll behind nabs and toskala.

Kip turned into beast mode for handful of years, but if we would have seen that they are not trading him, or someone is ponying up a lot more

I mean most bad trades only look bad after the fact. The Karlsson trade looked good at the time and has the potential to be the worst trade the team has ever made if Norris and Stutzle continue on their trajectory.

 

[DisbeliefInDW]

Since were talking about what players the picks turned into, the 4th overall turned into Stutzle in case you guys didn't know

PS: The trade never looked good

 

[Pavelski2112]

Since were talking about what players the picks turned into, the 4th overall turned into Stutzle in case you guys didn't know

PS: The trade never looked good

I don't even know why I keep getting myself back into this circular argument, but 1. it was the 3rd OA, and 2. literally almost no one expected that that pick would be a lottery pick since the Sharks the year before were two wins away from a second Cup Final in five years.

At the time nearly everyone saw the trade as a complete fleecing and that Dorion should be fired on the spot. Karlsson was still a perennial Norris candidate who was two years removed from one of the best playoffs by a defenceman in the salary cap era.

I know hindsight is tempting to view history through, but holy god cool it.

 

[TheBeard]

I don't even know why I keep getting myself back into this circular argument, but 1. it was the 3rd OA, and 2. literally almost no one expected that that pick would be a lottery pick since the Sharks the year before were two wins away from a second Cup Final in five years.

At the time nearly everyone saw the trade as a complete fleecing and that Dorion should be fired on the spot. Karlsson was still a perennial Norris candidate who was two years removed from one of the best playoffs by a defenceman in the salary cap era.

I know hindsight is tempting to view history through, but holy god cool it.

Agreed. Unfortunately all the “naysayers” will use the power of hindsight to say “I told you so”.

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

I don't even know why I keep getting myself back into this circular argument, but 1. it was the 3rd OA, and 2. literally almost no one expected that that pick would be a lottery pick since the Sharks the year before were two wins away from a second Cup Final in five years.

At the time nearly everyone saw the trade as a complete fleecing and that Dorion should be fired on the spot. Karlsson was still a perennial Norris candidate who was two years removed from one of the best playoffs by a defenceman in the salary cap era.

I know hindsight is tempting to view history through, but holy god cool it.

Not only that but we're only a few chapters into the damn book. People act as though the entire story has been written on Karlssons tenure in teal.

 

[Pavelski2112]

Agreed. Unfortunately all the “naysayers” will use the power of hindsight to say “I told you so”.

Yea I mean, like we can say that the trade looks bad now and DW shouldn't have made it. That's not a hot take. But saying that the trade was always bad or that we always had the insight that we do now is just plain wrong.

 

[Sharksrule04]

Will always say the Ehrhoff trade. DW traded a 40 point 27 year old d-man for absolutely nothing, and everyone knew it was nothing at the time. No other trade comes to mind that was this lopsided against the Sharks in the DW era. I don’t care about the circumstances surrounding cap, you at least get a late first round pick or good prospect for Ehrhoff at that point in his career.

 

[DisbeliefInDW]

I don't even know why I keep getting myself back into this circular argument, but 1. it was the 3rd OA, and 2. literally almost no one expected that that pick would be a lottery pick since the Sharks the year before were two wins away from a second Cup Final in five years.

At the time nearly everyone saw the trade as a complete fleecing and that Dorion should be fired on the spot. Karlsson was still a perennial Norris candidate who was two years removed from one of the best playoffs by a defenceman in the salary cap era.

I know hindsight is tempting to view history through, but holy god cool it.

Dude, not sure if you skipped what I said but I said it was a horrible trade AT THE TIME. Forget hindsight, it was a horrible deal when it happened. You don't trade your best prospects, best AHL player, your 1st Round pick, a 2nd round pick, AND 2 roster players for someone on decline AND in a position you absolutely didn't need. Hindsight just makes it look 5x worse.

Not only that but we're only a few chapters into the damn book. People act as though the entire story has been written on Karlssons tenure in teal.

Dude, it's over. As soon as you accept it, the sooner you'll enjoy life. Karlsson has gotten worse and worse every year and that will continue to happen. He isn't getting better.

 

[Pavelski2112]

Dude, not sure if you skipped what I said but I said it was a horrible trade AT THE TIME. Forget hindsight, it was a horrible deal when it happened. You don't trade your best prospects, best AHL player, your 1st Round pick, a 2nd round pick, AND 2 roster players for someone on decline AND in a position you absolutely didn't need. Hindsight just makes it look 5x worse.



Dude, it's over. As soon as you accept it, the sooner you'll enjoy life. Karlsson has gotten worse and worse every year and that will continue to happen. He isn't getting better.

You may have personally thought it was a terrible trade at the time, but the majority of people didn't, and that's the point I'm trying to get across. It was overwhelmingly seen as a huge win for the Sharks, whose picks were almost guaranteed to be bottom half selections, plus throwing in a couple depth players who were on their way out anyway. Norris and Balcers were the only guys in the trade who were seen as having any value at all. The Sharks immediately had the best defense in the entire league, and already had plenty of foward depth to go along with it.

I literally said that looking at the trade now as bad isn't a hot take, stop making it seem like I'm purely just saying this to defend every single thing DW does. Your personal thoughts at the time =/= the prevailing narrative at the time, which is what the argument is about.

 

[Hodge]

Don't mind me, just thinking about what our lineup could have been in 18-19 if Wilson had sent the Karlsson package to Buffalo for ROR instead.

Couture - O'Reilly - Pavelski
Kane - Hertl - Donskoi
Meier - Thornton - Labanc
Sorensen - Goodrow - Karlsson

Dillon - Burns
Vlasic - Braun
Simek - Heed

That first line would have given Pierre McGuire a season long hard-on. Of course Jones/Dell are the goalies so we're probably still not winning the Cup.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I don't even know why I keep getting myself back into this circular argument, but 1. it was the 3rd OA, and 2. literally almost no one expected that that pick would be a lottery pick since the Sharks the year before were two wins away from a second Cup Final in five years.

I for one said that if the Sharks don't re-sign Karlsson, they could be a lottery team and it could look really bad.

The fact that they signed Karlsson and still tanked...yes, that was unexpected.

Don't mind me, just thinking about what our lineup could have been in 18-19 if Wilson had sent the Karlsson package to Buffalo for ROR instead.

Couture - O'Reilly - Pavelski
Kane - Hertl - Donskoi
Meier - Thornton - Labanc
Sorensen - Goodrow - Karlsson

Dillon - Burns
Vlasic - Braun
Simek - Heed

That first line would have given Pierre McGuire a season long hard-on. Of course Jones/Dell are the goalies so we're probably still not winning the Cup.

Keep in mind that O'Reilly was aberrant; improving massively at such a late age. He's perhaps not a franchise player, but he's an elite #1C; prior to the trade he was seen like Couture (or Couture-light). Burns is another player who went from a top-pairing defenseman with issues to a solid Norris contender.