On that note, I'd even argue the best GM we've ever had on the payroll was Craig Patrick.
(Note the careful wording acknowledging that he wasn't the GM when he was here.)
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Worst Trade in CBJ Franchise History?
- Thread starter NotWendell
- Start date
On that note, I'd even argue the best GM we've ever had on the payroll was Craig Patrick.
(Note the careful wording acknowledging that he wasn't the GM when he was here.)
WannabeFinn
Beloved One
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
Not remotely, because those trades are completely unrelated to eachother and involve completely different assets.
* * *
Please, feel free to name the Howson moves in which we lost valuable assets due to those developmental hazards and ended up with little or nothing back in the end.
It's not that Howson could do no wrong - it's that when he screwed up, he was generally able to fix it or at least minimize the damage. Kekalainen, twice now, has instead doubled down on the damage and made the team worse as a result. Granted, when he makes a successful move it's generally extremely so, but I put more faith in folks who have shown they can make good out of a bad situation.
To use a metaphor from another sport, Howson batted for average, Jarmo swings for the fences.
In European hockey context no-one would care whether you replaced someone departing to the NHL with the 200 000 dollars given in return or how much it might be if you took euros from your budget and signed someone to fill the void.
It would be the whole context that is reviewed in transactions and not just this guy acquired this one guy for these three guys who went on to do this for those guys.
You don't aim to win the battle but the war if you are leading a winning army.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
I don't care. This is a National Hockey League team, located in North America like every other National Hockey League team. Players are not fungible assets.
There's no "whole context" to play with. Jarmo spent valuable assets to get Gaborik. We got little or nothing for those assets. He spent completely different assets to get Saad. We could easily have been able to have both if we were so inclined; there were no finance or asset availability considerations that blocked such a thing. Instead, we have incurred a net loss.
Except, of course, we've gone from having a playoff team to 26th in the league.
Crede777
Deputized
- Dec 16, 2009
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First off, Howson was much more conservative than Jarmo with regards to trades and free agents.
Second, I think Howson squandered assets with regards to Malhotra and Filatov.
That's not to say Howson had such glaring mistakes. Again, he was much more conservative. So I don't think he was ever going to make the mistake of not insuring Horton but then again I don't know if he'd have given up what it took to get Saad. It's also more noticeable because the roster Jarmo is working with is significantly better than what Howson started with. Howson could have squandered assets and we wouldn't have known it because those assets were essentially worthless.
Despite the results, this was a no brainer. Clarkson for Horton, hands down. We might have lost a couple of assets with the Carter, however that did eventually turn into JJ. With Clarkson/Horton we've lost a huge amount of cap space for over half a decade in a contract that is almost impossible to move (yes, I know you'll say that we had the Horton cap space to deal with, but with time we could have moved that contract).
And where is North America located from an European viewpoint? Nowhere without Columbus. The founding member of the NHL.
There was the problem of signing an UFA Gaborik. I wouldn't say it was a scenario waiting to happen. And the splash made to trade for Gaborik gained CBJ recognition and virtue in eyes of the whole ice hockey world although it is hard to measure. From zero to hero in one day.
Was it the pick that got Ryan Collins that was part of the return? I would estimate him to be a top-4 defensive prospect for the team currently. If we turn to those eyes who go about with some scouting touch that is.
Isn't trading injured, almost retired players in the grey zone of the salary cap rulebook and half-illegal? So how much of that went into the decision to trade Horton if there was a chance that the window for those kind of trades might be closing sooner than you expect. Well it didn't but I don't think it is exactly 'fair' to do these trades and there might be understanding in the NHL of it.
Manny Malhotra / Sammy Pahlsson along with no improvement on defense. One step further - Howson was the reason Hitch was fired. Moron GM.
TaketheCannoli
RIP
Gosh Lee you did a fine job listing these trades. There really is a lot to choose from. I really had a hard time deciding between Voracek + 1st + 3rd for Carter, Horton for Clarkson, Brassard + Dorsett + Moore for Gaborik and even Gaborik for Frattin + 2nd.
In the end I picked the Voracek trade more because of how the team bottomed out afterwards. For lasting effect it's likely Horton for Clarkson because it's the gift that keeps on giving until 2020.
Like you I was sad about the Chimera for Clark + Jurcina trade, but only because I really liked Chimera and he seemed so integrated into the community. As a hockey trade alone it's not deserving of a spot.
As a side note, I actually went back and reviewed every Doug MacLean era trade thinking there had to be something worse during that period. As bad as Dougie was, his bad trades pale in comparison to Jarmo's worst. Can JK go down as this franchise's worst GM ever? That takes some real effort!
In the end I picked the Voracek trade more because of how the team bottomed out afterwards. For lasting effect it's likely Horton for Clarkson because it's the gift that keeps on giving until 2020.
Like you I was sad about the Chimera for Clark + Jurcina trade, but only because I really liked Chimera and he seemed so integrated into the community. As a hockey trade alone it's not deserving of a spot.
As a side note, I actually went back and reviewed every Doug MacLean era trade thinking there had to be something worse during that period. As bad as Dougie was, his bad trades pale in comparison to Jarmo's worst. Can JK go down as this franchise's worst GM ever? That takes some real effort!
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Tough one, probably Carter, but following a close 2nd was trading Gaborik to the Kings when we were heading to the playoffs. We're probably one of the only team thats sold going into the playoffs
EspenK
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That barely squeaked in on the last day of the season (after JK arrived if I recall correctly) and then sent tremors through the league by lasting 2 games more than the other playoff team in Jackets lore.
Its all in the spin. To me a playoff team, as opposed to a team that makes the playoffs, is one which consistently makes it to the playoffs. The 2014 appearance by the Jackets was an outlier.
Not saying JK has been perfect but to suggest he destroyed a playoff team is a bit of a stretch.
We Want Ten
Make Chinakov Great Again
Cyclones Rock
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Voracek hands down. For now. The #1 center for the 3 goal scorer may rate consideration over time.
I can't consider the Clarkson/Horton debacle as a trade in any conventional sense. It's a failed financial CYA for a tandem of fools who didn't understand the purpose of insurance.
I can't consider the Clarkson/Horton debacle as a trade in any conventional sense. It's a failed financial CYA for a tandem of fools who didn't understand the purpose of insurance.
KallioWeHardlyKnewYe
Hey! We won!
- May 30, 2003
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Horton for Clarkson.
The Carter deal, while bad, at least morphed into something usable in JJ and a 1st rounder (Dano, which was used to get Saad).
Horton for Clarkson and everything it represents is just a catastrophic failure at every level and it's financial burden that's going to hamstring this organization for a few years still.
The Carter deal, while bad, at least morphed into something usable in JJ and a 1st rounder (Dano, which was used to get Saad).
Horton for Clarkson and everything it represents is just a catastrophic failure at every level and it's financial burden that's going to hamstring this organization for a few years still.
EDIT - nvm.
Also wtf were we doing at the 2009 draft? I wasn't paying too much attention then. How did we end up with John Moore after sending 1st round pick (Nick Leddy at 16) and a 3rd to the Isles? We also held the picks that became Anders Nilsson and Casey Cizikas, but sent those back for a 2nd rounder (Kevin Lynch). What?
I'd also give an HM to the whole McQuaid/Jamie Benn/Mayorov scenario.
Also wtf were we doing at the 2009 draft? I wasn't paying too much attention then. How did we end up with John Moore after sending 1st round pick (Nick Leddy at 16) and a 3rd to the Isles? We also held the picks that became Anders Nilsson and Casey Cizikas, but sent those back for a 2nd rounder (Kevin Lynch). What?
I'd also give an HM to the whole McQuaid/Jamie Benn/Mayorov scenario.
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Voracek/Carter.
On so many levels this was a disaster. Lack of due diligence - maybe they should have checked with Carter's camp to see if he would ever be a good soldier here. Embarrassing to the city as it probably confirmed some people's belief that Columbus isn't an attractive NHL destination unless you like zoos or short commutes to the rink. Not to mention the assets the Jackets gave away.
On so many levels this was a disaster. Lack of due diligence - maybe they should have checked with Carter's camp to see if he would ever be a good soldier here. Embarrassing to the city as it probably confirmed some people's belief that Columbus isn't an attractive NHL destination unless you like zoos or short commutes to the rink. Not to mention the assets the Jackets gave away.
http://bluejacketsxtra.dispatch.com/content/stories/2015/02/01/Blue-Jackets-Notebook-0201.html
Also, I screwed up the original mention anyway.
In fairness, I hope we aren't going to evaluate a defenseman solely on the number of goals he scores.
JacketFanInFL
Brick by Brick
Marian Gaborik (who arguably should have won the Conn Smythe in the Playoff run) for Frattin and the mid round picks.
Not far behind that is the Carter for Johnson trade. Should have made his ass play here longer and not sell so low.
We have served as a great farm team to help LA win Stanley Cups.
Third for me is the Wiz for Karlson/Borque trade. Karlson may wind up as a decent 3rd line center who can PK, but that's not worth trading our best PP QB since Quint.
Johansen for Jones is laughable even being on here.
Not far behind that is the Carter for Johnson trade. Should have made his ass play here longer and not sell so low.
We have served as a great farm team to help LA win Stanley Cups.
Third for me is the Wiz for Karlson/Borque trade. Karlson may wind up as a decent 3rd line center who can PK, but that's not worth trading our best PP QB since Quint.
Johansen for Jones is laughable even being on here.
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