Worst D core to win a cup

[Iceman]

Just goes to show you don't need a #1 dman to win. Meanwhile they had to compete against some of the league's top defence rosters in the NHL (Washington, Nashville).

Teams have won without goaltending or #1 center as well.

 

[Riptide]

Bret Hedican put up 11 points in nearly 23 minutes of ice time per game back in the 05-06 playoffs.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...ilter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=timeOnIcePerGame

Labeling him a #6 dman is possibly the most ridiculous thing I've read on HFB relating to that team, only rivaled by the semi-infamous Mike Card comment.

The same thing goes for Ward. #6D do not play 20+ minutes a night as the top pairing for a cup team.

 

[Riptide]

Teams have won without goaltending or #1 center as well.

Have they? When was the last time a team won the cup without a #1C?
When was the last time a team won a cup with bad goaltending?

There's been two cup winners in the lockout era to win a cup without a #1D. There's been very few teams who've even come close to the finals without a #1C or quality goaltending.

 

[Scrantonicity 2]

A D oriented fan? That sounds boring. Do you cheer for 1-0 games?

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Obviously Hawks 2015 team had some studs like Keith, Hammer, Seabrook (bounceback year), but they were also playing Timmonen (after not playing for a year), TVR (after busting knee cap earlier in season), Rundblad and Kyle Cuminsky. Those 4 played in the bottom 3 of the SCF in 2015.

 

[bossram]

Everything Sullivan touches turn to gold, seriously.

Schultz, Hainsey, and Daley were all basically afterthoughts when they were traded from their respective teams. For people who think coaches and systems have minimal impact, they need to take a look at the before and after of players that's joined the Penguins since the Sullivan era.

I was going to say this.

Is the Penguins' blueline patently awful? Well no. Does it look pretty mediocre on paper? Yah it does.

But Sullivan was able to get the most that he could out of that group. His systems worked well for the players he had. Most of the the defense just had to work on soft dump-outs to streaking forwards or short break-out passes in zone. Neutral zone, just whip the puck up to the forwards as fast as possible. They weren't given a heavy burden, but it got the job done. Guys like Schultz and Daley were utilised to their strengths too.

Work with what you have, and maximize the guys you got. Sullivan is clearly very good at this.

 

[Riptide]

Obviously Hawks 2015 team had some studs like Keith, Hammer, Seabrook (bounceback year), but they were also playing Timmonen (after not playing for a year), TVR (after busting knee cap earlier in season), Rundblad and Kyle Cuminsky. Those 4 played in the bottom 3 of the SCF in 2015.

When you have Keith, Hammer and Seabrook who are top 3D all playing 26+ minutes a night... you're barking up the wrong tree even discussing that group of blueliners.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...ilter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=timeOnIcePerGame

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I am confused by the premise.

The Pens had the 5th best GAA in the playoffs. Only 1/10th of a percent worse than Nashville's defense that everyone slobbered over. 28/100ths of a percent worse than the best defense in the playoffs.

Almost a full goal better than the number two regular season defense and two whole goals better than the number one regular season defense.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/team?aggre...er=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=goalsAgainstPerGame

So that is a terrible defense?

 

[1989]

Surely Craig MacTavish can't believe Schultz has never even had a Norris vote let alone not won a Norris Trophy by now… ??

Having great defensemen payroll your blue line is a privilege, but having the entire team play defence well is a blessing.

If shutting down your opponent twice in a row in the last two Cup Finals games is a result of having the "worst D core" as the thread title implies, sign me up.

 

[PensPlz]

Pens' D simply lived within their means. They were well coached and believed in their group, covered for each other, and never quit no matter how banged up each one was. They played with a ton of heart and willed their way to victory after victory, shutout after shutout.

If that's pathetic then maybe you should watch a different sport. Becuase it was simply brilliant.

 

[Machinehead]

I am confused by the premise.

The Pens had the 5th best GAA in the playoffs. Only 1/10th of a percent worse than Nashville's defense that everyone slobbered over. 28/100ths of a percent worse than the best defense in the playoffs.

Almost a full goal better than the number two regular season defense and two whole goals better than the number one regular season defense.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/team?aggre...er=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=goalsAgainstPerGame

So that is a terrible defense?

goal·tend·ing
ˈɡōlˌtendiNG
noun
1.
SOCCER/HOCKEY
the action of stopping the ball or puck from entering the goal.

 

[Machinehead]

Also, it's corps.

 

[Mike Mike Caron]

Still not as bad as the Nashville forwards group.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

As a collection of names, this IMHO was the most underwhelming group I've ever seen win a cup. Only because the bulk of the group is made up mostly of stay at home type blueliners... Cole, Dumo, Maatta, Hainsey... Daley's skating took a huge nose dive with all of his injuries... Schultz really isn't that great of a puck mover... yet somehow they found a way to step up at both ends of the ice every series.

They were under siege many times and it felt like they were going to finally fold many times, but they never did. I've never seen anything like it in all the years I've watched this game.

That makes their run even more remarkable IMHO, and despite the lack of star power on their blueline, it's the most I've ever been impressed with a blueline, given what they had to work with and overcome.

 

[kihei]

Teams have won without goaltending or #1 center as well.

Name a team that won the Cup without the goalie contributing significantly.

 

[Old Gregg]

How pathetic are all the other teams in the playoffs if they couldn't score against this horrific defense...

 

[Koempel]

On paper they are definitely one of the weaker D-cores to win a cup. Overall, they are not that bad as they are all at least #3 or #4 D-men. None of the Penguins' pairings were as bad as Weber/Irwin.

Of course, most cup winning teams have veritable #1 and #2 D-men, if not future hall-of-famers. So yeah, probably one of the worst when looking at high end talent.

 

[Shockmaster]

Nashville was so bad offensively, that Pittsburgh's pathetic D got it done.
As a D oriented fan, one of the worst, if not worst, finals of all time.

Wouldn't a defensive oriented fan like the fact the last two games of the Final were shutouts? Sounds like sour grapes to me.

 

[Pens1566]

As a collection of names, this IMHO was the most underwhelming group I've ever seen win a cup. Only because the bulk of the group is made up mostly of stay at home type blueliners... Cole, Dumo, Maatta, Hainsey... Daley's skating took a huge nose dive with all of his injuries... Schultz really isn't that great of a puck mover... yet somehow they found a way to step up at both ends of the ice every series.

They were under siege many times and it felt like they were going to finally fold many times, but they never did. I've never seen anything like it in all the years I've watched this game.

That makes their run even more remarkable IMHO, and despite the lack of star power on their blueline, it's the most I've ever been impressed with a blueline, given what they had to work with and overcome.

This ^ plus not having any guys that needed sheltered allowed a fairly equal distribution of ice time. That way everyone was only playing slightly above their heads. Every one of these guys is capable of at least legit 2nd pairing duty and PP usage isn't really an issue as long as Schultz is healthy. And Dumo has now played top pairing minutes on 2 straight cup winners. He's underrated.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

goal�tend�ing
ˈɡōlˌtendiNG
noun
1.
SOCCER/HOCKEY
the action of stopping the ball or puck from entering the goal.

Goaltending, forwards, etc. are all part of the defense. Defense, and offense for that matter, is a team effort.

None of that addresses my point, which you responded to with your definition.

So the Pens had no names left when Letang went down. Who cares? On paper the Caps should have a half dozen cups right now and should have won this year. How many teams with name players fail each year?

The Pens' defensive 'core', whatever that means given it is a team effort, outplayed most, and was as good as any in the playoffs this year. If I have an employee with a Harvard education who graduated at the top of his class, and another who went to community college but she gets the job done three times faster and more accurately that Harvard guy can take his degree and shove it up his rear for all I care. Show me what you do, do not show me your pedigree.

This Pens' team by all metrics that counted did the job as well as any name unit in hockey this post season over a couple dozen games , so no small sample size. That is name enough for me.

 

[MXD]

Every year.. people keep talking about how bad our defense is. Just keep talking about it.

Well, your D-squad was terrible on paper (for a cup winner), but played extremely well as a group.

 

[NoComments]

I think Jacques Martin worked miracles over there.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Also, it's corps.

In our case, corpse is also appropriate, given how many Pens were held together with voodoo curses and spite for the duration of the playoffs.

Also, Letang might have been officially declared dead.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I think Jacques Martin worked miracles over there.

I think Gonchar's role is actually really under appreciated. By all accounts he does a lot of the one-on-one improvement work with the blueliners. Martin does the pairings and schemes, but Gonchar helps the players get better individually.

 

[Peat]

In our case, corpse is also appropriate, given how many Pens were held together with voodoo curses and spite for the duration of the playoffs.

Also, Letang might have been officially declared dead.

But will rise again to spite the west.