Worst D core to win a cup

[PAZ]

Everything Sullivan touches turn to gold, seriously.

Schultz, Hainsey, and Daley were all basically afterthoughts when they were traded from their respective teams. For people who think coaches and systems have minimal impact, they need to take a look at the before and after of players that's joined the Penguins since the Sullivan era.

 

[SEALBound]

Only on HFBoards could you get a thread seconds after shutting out a team in the SCF for the second time to win the cup asking if it's the worst defense to ever win a cup.

I love this place.

 

[heysmilinstrange]

I'd like to extend my congratulations to the Carolina Hurricanes team of 2006, since you will no longer be considered the worst defensive core to win a Cup in the modern era.

 

[CpatainCanuck]

No doubt that the Penguins are extremely well coached. The Penguins breakout depended on the puck carrier being well supported, allowing for short easy passes up the ice and not depending on any single defenseman to gain the zone. In the defensive zone, a commitment to back checking from the offence allowed any deficiencies on the D to be muffled.

 

[Hackett]

Only on HFBoards could you get a thread seconds after shutting out a team in the SCF for the second time to win the cup asking if it's the worst defense to ever win a cup.

I love this place.

Well, its a compliment to how deep they are at center. I mean, you will likely never see anything close to Crosby/Malkin at center again in Pittsburgh (although I probabaly would have said that during the Lemieux/Francis era too). Its also a compliment to Murray as he was lights out.

 

[Killswitch7187]

I posted this on the Pens board, but I wonder when people will start to give Dumoulin his due. He is without a doubt a top-pairing, or at least, top-4 defensive defenseman. Everyone has their own definition on what the makeup of a top-pairing D is, and he absolutely lacks the offensive output, but there is nobody I trust more back there.

The guy was the best skater in G7 against Washington, is on the shortlist of best skater tonight against Nashville in G6. Pretty sure he was playing with a major back injury as well.

The narrative may be that the Penguins won with a "no name defense" but there is enough on-ice evidence for Dumoulin to be worthy of his own praises. Somebody worth mentioning in his own sentence. These past two summers should have verified that much at least.

 

[Riptide]

Nashville was so bad offensively, that Pittsburgh's pathetic D got it done.
As a D oriented fan, one of the worst, if not worst, finals of all time.

So what was Washington's excuse then for not getting it done? Or Ottawa's?

Pittsburgh blueline looks terrible on paper. But the games are not played on paper - they're played on the ice. And on the ice, Schultz, Dumoulin (especially Dumoulin), Maatta and company for the most part were a very very effective group. No one who really jumps out, but a solid group that had all the different skillsets needed and who played well together.

We posted this at the start of this series (and it wasn't all that different), but here's the totals over the entire playoffs:

Pittsburgh's blueline: 25 GP, 10 goals, 51 points, +30
Nashville's blueline: 22 GP, 14 goals, 53 points, +16

For all the **** that people keep tossing on the blueline... maybe they're not quite as bad as some suggest. Not to mention that I seem to recall hearing the same thing last year - and we all know how that turned out.

 

[Riptide]

Just goes to show you don't need a #1 dman to win. Meanwhile they had to compete against some of the league's top defence rosters in the NHL (Washington, Nashville).

I've been saying this for years. Obviously it helps, but having the right skillsets and having great balance goes a lot way - and Pittsburgh had that this year.

PPQB - check (Schultz)
D who could all move the puck - check (Daley, Schultz, Maatta, Dumoulin)
D who could PK - check (Hainsey, Cole, Dumoulin, Maatta)

Pittsburgh's D vs Ottawa was just rolling through the pairings with no matchup's. Pittsburgh's top guys and bottom guys were separated by a total of 7 minutes (31:57 vs 24:16) and that was Schultz who just came back from injury and Cole who was suffering from broken ribs and a broken hand.

Dumo: 30:03
Maatta: 31:57
Hainsey: 30:41
Daley: 27:50
Cole: 25:28
Schultz: 24:16

And that's in a double OT game. Ottawa's 3rd pairing by comparison played 13:15 and 23:29.

It's things like this that allow a team to get away with not having that true #1D. Obviously how Pittsburgh's is made up isn't ideal - but then they were not made to be successful without a #1D, they were just trying to make due with Letang and his 7.25m cap hit on IR.

 

[ChiefWiggum]

Pittsburgh's D did a decent job defensively but they didnt have the skill to make the great breakout pass that most Stanley Cup D cores are able to make. Whenever they were under pressure, they literally slapped it around the boards and just hope that a winger is there to chip it. Not exactly stellar offensive play

 

[Alwalys]

So what was Washington's excuse then for not getting it done? Or Ottawa's?

Pittsburgh blueline looks terrible on paper. But the games are not played on paper - they're played on the ice. And on the ice, Schultz, Dumoulin (especially Dumoulin), Maatta and company for the most part were a very very effective group. No one who really jumps out, but a solid group that had all the different skillsets needed and who played well together.

We posted this at the start of this series (and it wasn't all that different), but here's the totals over the entire playoffs:

Pittsburgh's blueline: 25 GP, 10 goals, 51 points, +30
Nashville's blueline: 22 GP, 14 goals, 53 points, +16

For all the **** that people keep tossing on the blueline... maybe they're not quite as bad as some suggest. Not to mention that I seem to recall hearing the same thing last year - and we all know how that turned out.

Just a small difference between being known for the D corps being the engine of the team and getting the gameplanning, and having a loaded forward corps taking pressure off the D corps.

 

[Riptide]

Just a small difference between being known for the D corps being the engine of the team and getting the gameplanning, and having a loaded forward corps taking pressure off the D corps.

And yet this "worst D core to win a cup" produced almost as much offense as the D corps who was known for being the engine of the team.

 

[Brownies]

Last year, I thought their defense played great. Everybody seemed to have elevated their games. This year, I was impressed by Dumoulin and Shultz and Cole was better than what I remembered of him, but man I thought Maatta was a liability.

 

[meenamjah]

Just goes to show you don't need a #1 dman to win. Meanwhile they had to compete against some of the league's top defence rosters in the NHL (Washington, Nashville).

well, that's like saying you can win while going down 3-0 in a series. sure, it's technically possible, but it's highly unlikely.

 

[Atren]

Well, someone has to have worst defense to win the cup. It does not really matter, only the fact they won does.

 

[EXPECT THE LEAFS]

I think this proves that strength up the middle is more important then strength on the backend.

The Leafs are sitting pretty.

 

[lastcupever75]

Oh don't worry we will be...

When you guys miss the playoffs next season by one point only to win the draft lottery for Dahlin because you know, you sold your soul to the devil. There will be a billion threads about it.

can you remind us again on how many #1 picks the lanche/nords drafted in a row

 

[TT1]

I'd like to extend my congratulations to the Carolina Hurricanes team of 2006, since you will no longer be considered the worst defensive core to win a Cup in the modern era.

Honestly, i'd still go with Carolina.

Kaberle/Hedican/Ward/Commodore/Wesley/Wallin.. that's like F. Kaberle (not even as good as Schultz) with 5 #6 dmen. Dumoulin is also a respectable midd pairing dman, nothing flashy but he does his job defensively. I think Maatta is extremely overrated but he's better than those dmen as well, ditto for Daley.

 

[Peat]

Oh don't worry we will be...

When you guys miss the playoffs next season by one point only to win the draft lottery for Dahlin because you know, you sold your soul to the devil. There will be a billion threads about it.

I like your future, let's live there


Anyway, yes, by SC winning team standards this was a poor defence.

But everyone was capable of second pairing defensive play which is pretty big. Puck moving skills weren't great, but the shutdown play was there. Throw in good coaching, a lot of help from the forwards and some great goaltending and there you have it.

Not every part of a Cup winner needs to be world class.

 

[captain cubicle]

Oh don't worry we will be...

When you guys miss the playoffs next season by one point only to win the draft lottery for Dahlin because you know, you sold your soul to the devil. There will be a billion threads about it.

lol if you think the pens are missing the playoffs next year idk what to tell you.

 

[Riptide]

Honestly, i'd still go with Carolina.

Kaberle/Hedican/Ward/Commodore/Wesley/Wallin.. that's like F. Kaberle (not even as good as Schultz) with 5 #6 dmen. Dumoulin is also a respectable midd pairing dman, nothing flashy but he does his job defensively. I think Maatta is extremely overrated but he's better than those dmen as well, ditto for Daley.

You're not giving them nearly enough credit.

 

[TT1]

You're not giving them nearly enough credit.

a hodgepodge of bottom pairing dmen?

 

[Sky04]

The Penguins D is not pathetic. They have 6 middle-pairing defenseman. It wasn't pretty but guess what, it got it done.

In terms of the topic, "worst d core to win a cup" of course they got it done, other wise they wouldn't be in this discussion.

They are absolutely one of the worst if not the worst all time groups to win a cup, but you're right it did get the job done.

 

[the4thlinegrinder]

Pittsburgh iced the worst D in the history of hockey. It's not even close folks. Very low energy back-end. SAD!

 

[Vancouver_2010]

Worse than Hurricanes defense in 2006?

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Bret Hedican put up 11 points in nearly 23 minutes of ice time per game back in the 05-06 playoffs.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...ilter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=timeOnIcePerGame

Labeling him a #6 dman is possibly the most ridiculous thing I've read on HFB relating to that team, only rivaled by the semi-infamous Mike Card comment.