Worse stretch in Flyers history?

[FlyerNutter]

What annoys me more than anything else, is this thing just feels like stagnation.

We went through years of basically accepting suckage, in hopes of a better day. I don’t buy that this was a rebuild because it was basically just sitting on our hands and holding on to our picks. Fine.

Were those years really worth it? It makes me furious to think this way, and I really hope I end up being wrong - but this organization should have blown it the f*** up the minute they hired Hextall and truly tanked this shit.

Prove me wrong Holmgren and Fletcher. I kind of doubt you will.

How Holmgren has a job, as club president and basically in the Shanahan/(old) Yzerman role is beyond me. He would have been crucified if this was Toronto. Run this franchise into the f***ing ground, with no identity and no accountability. The Flyers are a warm body when compared to other NHL clubs. Similar to all those warm body players they loved to trot out there for the last few years.

Prove me wrong.

 

[deadhead]

It's all on Holmgren.
He gambled the future, lost and then doubled down when Pronger got hurt.
And never gave Hextall the green light to do a complete rebuild.

Just look at the Rangers for what a real rebuild looks like, when you know you're cooked, clean house at the TDL and garner as many draft picks and prospects as possible.

Fans blame the coaches, but the talent has been below average for a NHL team since 2011-12.
GAR (400+ minutes)

2012-13:
F: Voracek (12.9), Giroux (9.1), B Schenn (4.6), Read (4.6), Fedotenko (3.8), Talbot (2), Couts (2), Briere (1.9), Smmonds (1.7), Hartnell (-0.7)
D: L Schenn (6.2), Kimmo (6.1), Gustaffson (1.1), Grossman (0.7), Coburn (-0.7), Gervais (-1.7)

2013-14
F: Voracek (16.9), Giroux (15.0), Simmons (9.2), Hartnell (8.9), Raffl (8.2), B Schenn (7.1), Read (4.3), Couts (4.3), Downie (0.9), Hall (-1.2), Vinnie (-2.4), Rinaldo (-9.2)
D: Streit (8.1), Kimmo (7.0), Gustaffson (5.6), L Schenn (3.5), Meszaros (2.4), Coburn (1.0), MacDonald (-1.3), Grossman (-1.7)

2014-15
F: Voracek (13.5), Simmonds (10.5), Raffl (9.6), Couts (8.5), Giroux (7.7), B Schenn (4.8), PEB (4.2), Read (3.3), VdV (1.8), Vinnie (-0.3), Rinaldo (-4.1), Umberger (-4.9)
D: Streit (6.4), MDZ (3.2), MacDonald (2.5), Schultz (2.0), L Schenn (2.0), Coburn (1.9), Colaiacovo (0.2), Grossman (0.1)

2015-16:
F: Couts (11.8), Voracek (9.9), Simmonds (9.8), B Schenn (8.8), Raffl (5.9), Giroux (4.6), Gagner (1.1), Read (1.0), Laughton (-0.4), PEB (-1.0), White (-3.4), VdV (-4.2)
D: Ghost (13.2), MacDonald (7.5), Schultz (3.2), Medvedev (1.4), L Schenn (1.3), Gudas (-0.3), MDZ (-1.1), Streit (-2.0), Manning (-4.8)

2016-17:
F: Couts (9.7), B Schenn (6.5), TK (5.0), Giroux (4.9), Weise (4.1), Read (3.6), PEB (3.3), Simmonds (2.6), Luby (2.1), VdV (1.7), Voracek (1.4), Cousins (-1.0), Raffl (-2.3)
D: Gudas (13.9), MDZ (5.9), Provorov (5.0), MacDonald (0.9), Schultz (0.3), Manning (-2.1), Streit (-3.3), Ghost (-4.6)

2017-18:
F: Giroux (24.4), Couts (22.7), TK (10.1), Voracek (7.5), Raffl (5.9), Weal (4.0), Laughton (2.3), Patrick (2.2), Simmonds (-0.6), Lehtera (-1.0), Leier (-1.1), Weise (-4.3), Filppula (-6.2)
D: Ghost (14.5), Provorov (10.1), Gudas (5.3), Sanheim (2.6), MacDonald (2.4), Hagg (1.0), Manning (-3.4)

2018-19:
F: Couts (20.2), Giroux (16.8), TK (4.6), Lindblom (4.4), Voracek (3.5), Patrick (3.0), JVR (0.9), Laughton (0.5), Raffl (-1.1), Weise (-1.3), Simmonds (-2.0)
D: Sanheim (12.7), Gudas (6.0), Ghost (4.1), Provorov (3.1), Folin (2.8), Hagg (-10.5)

League 2017-18
6 forwards > 20, Crosby, Barkov, Point, Stone, ROR, Couts
22 from 15.0 - 19.9
35 from 10.0 - 14.9 - cutoff for a first line forward
40 from 7.5 - 9.9
57 from 5.0 - 7.9
160: 5.0 or greater, 31x6 = 186 - so that's a good cutoff for a top 6 player
95 from 2.5 - 4.9
51 from 0.0 - 2.4
306 replacement or above - 10 per team
47 -0.1 to -2.0
47 worse than -2.0

1 defenseman > 20, Carlsson
7 from 15.0 - 19.9, Hedman, Karlsson, Reilly, Giordano, Chabot, Savard, Ekblad
28 from 10.0 - 14.9
12 from 7.5 - 9.9
27 from 5.0 - 7.5
75: 5.0 or greater
47 from 2.5 - 4.9
35 from 0.0 - 2.5
157 replacement or above - 5 per team
30 -0.1 to -2.0
37 worse than -2.0

Hagg was really bad, but Seabrook (-9.7), Bouwmeester (-9.7), Braun (-9.1), Ericsson (-8.7), Staal (-8.2), Engelland (-8.1)

 

[CapnZin]

Really though, once the Flyers are back to normal it’ll be glorious because so many people hate us.

Fans in Pittsburgh don’t even care about the PHI - PIT rivalry anymore. I’ve gone to some games in Pittsburgh and nobody says anything to me. The first time I went I was expecting to be shit on and got nothing.

 

[Curufinwe]

How can a stretch of not making the playoffs for five years straight be better than the current one.

For some of those years 16 out of 21 teams made it, but not the Flyers.

 

[FlyerFaithful17]

Fans in Pittsburgh don’t even care about the PHI - PIT rivalry anymore. I’ve gone to some games in Pittsburgh and nobody says anything to me. The first time I went I was expecting to be **** on and got nothing.

It’s because we’re irrelevant right now. It’s funny you say this though, because I got heckled by a teenage girl cashier last week at Lowe’s for wearing a Flyers hat. It was a low point in my life.

 

[FlyerNutter]

It’s because we’re irrelevant right now. It’s funny you say this though, because I got heckled by a teenage girl cashier last week at Lowe’s for wearing a Flyers hat. It was a low point in my life.

She’s not wrong. What’s this team got outside or Claude and Hart? They have some promising kids sure, so does every other team, but where are the stars that other teams find after accepting a rebuild for multiple seasons.

I understand I’m taking this thing to the extreme. Fully admit that. This summer is huge.

 

[CapnZin]

It’s because we’re irrelevant right now. It’s funny you say this though, because I got heckled by a teenage girl cashier last week at Lowe’s for wearing a Flyers hat. It was a low point in my life.

.

A low point in being a flyers fan (didn’t even happen to me) was a flyers fan shit talking a penguin fan during the outdoor game and the penguin fan turned around and said it’s been “1600+ days since you’ve had something to be happy about. You can’t talk shit to me... sit down”

No one said anything back. The entire couple rows just sat down quietly.

 

[Starat327]

I agree, what's amazing is yesterday i saw 2 teams play incredible defense and a team that looked like the flyers d.

Islanders are the best defensive team in the playoffs bar none. I think barry melrose can be a moron at times, but his breakdown yesterday was incredible.

Barry Trotz coaching was on full display yesterday.

you saw the islanders D completly shut down crosby, their sticks were active they covered the back door, why can't we play like that on D.

Blue Jackets are next who are playing great.

The Lightning however looked like the Flyers last night. All 5 D looking at the puck not staying with their man.

I blame all of this on Holmgren now. I blame comcast for not firing him by now.

The NHL should order a forced sale of the Flyers to an owner with brains.

I don't know... I keep getting told the isles are only good because of hot goaltending, and it isn't system related, soooo

Sarcasm aside - while the results are poor - Philly doesnt even scratch the surface of the worst run teams in the NHL to the point where the NHL would need to step in. Ottawa and Edmonton would need to be grossly overhauled before the Flyers were even put under a shred of scrutiny.

 

[FlyerFaithful17]

She’s not wrong. What’s this team got outside or Claude and Hart? They have some promising kids sure, so does every other team, but where are the stars that other teams find after accepting a rebuild for multiple seasons.

I understand I’m taking this thing to the extreme. Fully admit that. This summer is huge.

Oh I’m not saying she was wrong, but that there are Pens fans out there that still despise the Flyers. I’m not much of a trash talker and said she should not mind the Flyers since they’re terrible.

And you’re right. I’ve never been as nervous for an offseason.

 

[Johnk0728]

The Flyers are Corporate-owned now. This era is way worse due to that. The Flyers just raised prices after a dismal season. Mr. Snider took losing personal and at least tried. Comcast doesn't care if they win or lose. I do not see the Flyers coming out of this mediocre trend for a while. The team doesn't have an identity anymore and the fanbase is becoming indifferent. Baseball was dying in Philadelphia. Middleton saved it. Hockey is dying a slow death in Philly..... there is no Lurie, Middleton. Just a corporate ladder of admin.'s who still employ Homer.

 

[Johnk0728]

The Flyers have become the Tennessee Titans. A nothing franchise...... we don't even hit anymore or intimidate. Its just a mediocre team with a transitioning yet dwindling fan base. The Orange and Black stands for nothing anymore. The Flyers just aren't significant anymore in the NHL nor in Philly.

 

[46zone]

The reason why i voted for this era is simply because there is no end in sight

What, you don’t like pumping your fist to that prospect pool ranking?

 

[Hockeypete49]

For

Is Missing the playoffs 4 out of the last 7 years and failing to win a round with arguably the second best player in franchise history worse than going 5 straight years without even making the playoffs?

For me it is not even close. The early 90's were way worse than this period. Way worse.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

How can a stretch of not making the playoffs for five years straight be better than the current one.

For some of those years 16 out of 21 teams made it, but not the Flyers.

Exxxxactly. There’s a massive amount of recency bias going on here. I think a lot of fans don’t really know or remember 89/90 through 93/94. Those teams were HORRIBLE.

 

[BillDineen]

For

For me it is not even close. The early 90's were way worse than this period. Way worse.

I disagree. The drop was further from their previous peak, but the Lindros trade brought hope. They were willing to do anything and send anything to become a contender again. There is little hope here now. Cap era and a franchise scared of their own shadow and ownership focused primarily on the bottom line.

 

[FlyerNutter]

What, you don’t like pumping your fist to that prospect pool ranking?

Of a bunch of two way complimentary players outside of Frost/Farabee.

Hextall’s obsession.

 

[deadhead]

Nonsense and bladderdash.
Flyers haven't spent on scouting, coaching, etc.?
Where exactly have they penny pinched?

It takes time to do a complete rebuild, Holmgren screwed up this team and Hextall had to dig out of a very deep hole.
Now we're finally out of the hole, and people are acting like there's "no future."

Prospect rankings do matter, when you're at the top for an extended period, it means you have a lot of talent on the way.
But it took 5 years to build up that talent pool, even with great drafting you're only going to find 2-3 NHL players a year.

 

[Rebels57]

How can a stretch of not making the playoffs for five years straight be better than the current one.

For some of those years 16 out of 21 teams made it, but not the Flyers.

Because they were in full on rebuild and had Lindros for 2 of those years, which meant we knew things would get better before long..and they did. Starting in 95, they made the Playoffs 12 straight seasons.

We haven't won a playoff series in 7 years and got humiliated the last 2 times we had a playoff appearance.

 

[YEM]

How can a stretch of not making the playoffs for five years straight be better than the current one.

when you ignore all other context of both eras and simply boil it down to making the playoffs vs. not making the playoffs

 

[deadhead]

You can't compare because it was much easier for a rich team to rebuild twenty years ago.
Now you have to deal with a cap that can quickly squeeze you just as you're getting good.
So patiently building a deep talent pool is far more important than it was when you could finish a rebuild by buying a couple players.

 

[Rich Nixon]

bladderdash.

isn’t that a medical condition?

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

Those years when Pelle Eklund and Murray Craven were the top 2 producers were pretty bad...I think we had Mark Laforest in net around that time also.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

To be a bit fair to us during this stretch, we did run into the dynasty of the Pens and the President Trophy winning Capitals very often when we did actually make the playoffs.

I'm not saying we've been great (it's a rebuild, what do you expect) but at least acknowledge that we have had some really unfortunate opening opponents, too.

 

[Juicy Pop]

I'm biased because I'm living through it.

 

[baudib1]

Exxxxactly. There’s a massive amount of recency bias going on here. I think a lot of fans don’t really know or remember 89/90 through 93/94. Those teams were HORRIBLE.

No, those teams were fun. Missing the playoffs with Lindros >>> Making the playoffs with Hakstol. Not even close. The past five seasons have been absolutely horrible.

I went to 10 games in Lindros' rookie year, the place was rocking every night.