Transfer: Winter Transfer Thread Part II

[Halladay]

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[PeteWorrell]

I mean, Gabriel and Pepe just came from Ligue 1 and are playing. Arsenal is playing plenty of youth. This Saliba thing is dumb and they should really tell Arteta to sack up and play him, but whatever.

Gabriel is the exception and not the norm. Pépé is not even a starter and he is far from the player he was at Lille. Saka has been starting lately and has done much better.

 

[Evilo]

Yeah there's no defending Arteta's handling of the Pepe and Saliba situations.
You might think Pepe is not delivering but he's never playing games in a row while Willian does even though he's been ... let's say under average for agreement sake.
As for Saliba, every Sainte fan will tell you he's as good if not better than Fofana. Meanwhile Holding, Chambers or Mustafi will start over him.

 

[Evilo]

Campos bought him for 8M€ last summer

 

[Savant]

Campos bought him for 8M€ last summer

Been some whispering but hasn’t hit the good LFC sources yet. Been some interesting work from the Twitter detectives on the case.

 

[hatterson]

Yeah there's no defending Arteta's handling of the Pepe and Saliba situations.
You might think Pepe is not delivering but he's never playing games in a row while Willian does even though he's been ... let's say under average for agreement sake.
As for Saliba, every Sainte fan will tell you he's as good if not better than Fofana. Meanwhile Holding, Chambers or Mustafi will start over him.

I don't think there's much argument that Arteta has handled Willian well, but Pepe simply hasn't played well enough to justify more minutes, even on a trash squad like Arsenal.

Unless the argument is just that Pepe should be stapled to the team sheet unless he's injured or needs rest, it's hard to say Arteta has bungled it. Pepe has been mediocre since he arrived at Arsenal.

 

[Evilo]

When Willian sucks, a decent coach would at least try to play the biggest acquisition 5 games in a row over him don't you think?
You say he hasn't done enough to warrant playing time, what has Willian done except being signed by Arteta instead of Emery?

Unless your logic doesn't work for Willian who can play every game and suck without consequences.

 

[hatterson]

When Willian sucks, a decent coach would at least try to play the biggest acquisition 5 games in a row over him don't you think?
You say he hasn't done enough to warrant playing time, what has Willian done except being signed by Arteta instead of Emery?

Unless your logic doesn't work for Willian who can play every game and suck without consequences.

Literally the first line of my post is that Willian has been handled poorly...

 

[Evilo]

Yes but you then don't apply the same logic to Pepe.

 

[hatterson]

Yes but you then don't apply the same logic to Pepe.

Willian hasn't played well so he shouldn't be starting very much and it's a sign that Arteta has handled it poorly.

Pepe hasn't played well so he shouldn't be starting very much (and isn't).

I don't see any contradiction there.

 

[Evilo]

What excuse did I make?
Is Arteta showing anything positive according to you? Play style? Results? Anything?

 

[Evilo]

Willian hasn't played well so he shouldn't be starting very much and it's a sign that Arteta has handled it poorly.

Pepe hasn't played well so he shouldn't be starting very much (and isn't).

I don't see any contradiction there.

Well I do.
You say Arteta is handling one poorly and the other rightly when none have done (according to you) anything to warrant playing time.
Well I said in the begining that not giving 5 straight games to get into a groove was a mistake. Willian had that chance, not Pepe.
That was literally my first post that you disagreed with.

 

[hatterson]

Well I do.
You say Arteta is handling one poorly and the other rightly when none have done (according to you) anything to warrant playing time.
Well I said in the begining that not giving 5 straight games to get into a groove was a mistake. Willian had that chance, not Pepe.
That was literally my first post that you disagreed with.

He's handling Pepe right because Pepe hasn't deserved to be playing more and isn't.

He's handling Willian poorly because Willian hasn't deserved to be playing and is.

Pepe has had 60 games at Arsenal to get into the groove and hasn't. I don't see why he should be gifted another 5 in a row just because.

 

[Evilo]

He's handling Pepe right because Pepe hasn't deserved to be playing more and isn't.

He's handling Willian poorly because Willian hasn't deserved to be playing and is.

Pepe has had 60 games at Arsenal to get into the groove and hasn't. I don't see why he should be gifted another 5 in a row just because.

Give me 5 games he started in a row this season.
Why can't he get the same treatment as Willian?

 

[hatterson]

Give me 5 games he started in a row this season.
Why can't he get the same treatment as Willian?

He doesn't deserve the same treatment as Willian got. Willian also didn't/doesn't deserve that treatment.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

What about Botman is he any good?

 

[Evilo]

What about Botman is he any good?

He is VERY good.

 

[Chimaera]

I mean, I buy the they should try and find what they have in Pepe argument. They spent too much and money is too difficult to find now to just waste him if he’s a stud.

but I do wonder what he’s shown at Arsenal to merit continual faith. He has done stupid things on the pitch and when he did play some at the start of the season, he looked disinterested.

He has talent, and there’s no doubt he would be better with a better manager, but he owns some blame in how it’s gone.

 

[Evilo]

How does he have continual faith when he never gets 2 starts in a row, regardless of how he plays compared to his competition?
And nobody is saying he doesn't deserve blame, but he should get the same chance as Willian, right?

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Nicolas Pepe is extremely talented but he is terribly inconsistent.
I remember when Liverpool was rumored to be interested I scouted him a lot. He looked very good on highlights but in full game viewing he was not looking as good. The worst being his cameos at the African Nation Cup. For a supposed superstar on his team he was not even average, he was terrible. I was also veru surprised by his price tag (even before Covid).

Saliba I thought he was more potential. He was such a young and big guy. He was playing very mature for a guy this young. I am surprised he was never given a proper run or even loaned at another club like Chelsea did with Zouma. I would not give up on him if I was Arsenal.

 

[Evilo]

Hopefully they do give up on him.
I want him as far from Arteta as possible.
Losing a year of development at that age is a HUGE blow.
Pepe made a dumb choice joining Arsenal, Lacazette too (he really killed his NT career as well), I don't care really, it's on them.
But Saliba should be France's new Varane for the next 15 years with Fofana and Kouassi (who also made a dumb choice) aside him.
Instead, Fofana is shining and the other 2 are either not playing much or not playing at all.

 

[S E P H]

Gomez has triggered a preliminary contract with Barca. LOL.

Yeah there's no defending Arteta's handling of the Pepe and Saliba situations.
You might think Pepe is not delivering but he's never playing games in a row while Willian does even though he's been ... let's say under average for agreement sake.
As for Saliba, every Sainte fan will tell you he's as good if not better than Fofana. Meanwhile Holding, Chambers or Mustafi will start over him.

The worst aspect about this entire situation is that there's a good chance he would've surpassed Arteta's shelf life with the club, so we're allowing a WC potential CB to leave because a manager who's on the edge of getting fired doesn't want to play him. Now if Arsenal is going to shell out 60 million for either Upamecano or Konate, this makes sense, but so far that remains to be seen...

 

[S E P H]

Pepe made a dumb choice joining Arsenal, Lacazette too (he really killed his NT career as well), I don't care really, it's on them.

This is where I have to disagree with you, it's only "Arsenal's" fault that Pepe and Lacazette are insanely inconsistent. It's not Laca's fault that he misses sitters in every other match...it's the manager's fault for not playing him enough. It's not Pepe's fault that all he tries to do is dribble around four EPL defenders in every match and is a one-trick pony. It's Arsenal's fault he doesn't get enough time in the first time. You make some good points about Willian starting, but Pepe has played worse than Martinelli and Saka has (that's the simple fact). Now I don't think Pepe is a bust by any means, but having to incorporate tactics around Pepe to make him effective is a sure sign of a player that lacks talent and intelligence. The best players in the world are ones that can be productive in any sort of tactics; either Mourinho Berlin ball, Pep tik-tak, or Wenger elegance. I love both Laca and Pepe, I want to keep them and I want them to succeed so this isn't entirely an anti-players post. Laca showed some good skills under Wenger, but he never was a twenty goal striker that we need (he was more of the build up man like Giroud was before him).

 

[Evilo]

Lacazette, it's IMO entirely Arsenal's situation. He was a very very good player when you signed him and after being unfairly benched, he suddenly was your best player once unleashed. Then your awful coaches never used him decently, just like the rest of the team.
But again, he wanted to leave Lyon at all cost because he felt it was THAT summer. He chose Arsenal out of spite when his Atletico (wrong choice too BTW) transfer didn't happen.

Pepe also wanted to leave and go abroad. Arsenal was already a mess. Clearly he shows zero motivation to improve his situation, which is weird because he was someone who gave his all with Lille (and Angers).
Yes Pepe tries to dribble too much in the few minutes he has. But he also has zero movement around him. Zero offensive scheme.

 

[S E P H]

Lacazette, it's IMO entirely Arsenal's situation. He was a very very good player when you signed him and after being unfairly benched, he suddenly was your best player once unleashed. Then your awful coaches never used him decently, just like the rest of the team.
But again, he wanted to leave Lyon at all cost because he felt it was THAT summer. He chose Arsenal out of spite when his Atletico (wrong choice too BTW) transfer didn't happen.

I 100% agree he was unfairly benched, but he's had like three different managers and remained inconsistent. I think you need to realise is that an entire players career doesn't solely rest on the lack of development of being benched for like a month. I agree he's been given inconsistent minutes, but he's what he is at this point of time and it's an inconsistent player. Yes we all know he wanted to go to Atletico, but as you mentioned he would've been in a worse off situation so why not play for a superior club in the Arsenal? Greizmann was always going to be France's starter regardless of whatever Laca turned into (what I am implying is that Alex would've never ever been as good as Greiz is).

Pepe also wanted to leave and go abroad. Arsenal was already a mess. Clearly he shows zero motivation to improve his situation, which is weird because he was someone who gave his all with Lille (and Angers).
Yes Pepe tries to dribble too much in the few minutes he has. But he also has zero movement around him. Zero offensive scheme.

With Arsenal having Auba and Pepe, I just don't understand why we don't try more through balls like Liverpool does to wreck clubs. That's poor managing skills no doubt by our managers and why I haven't labelled as a bust. I think Pepe in Bielsa or Blanc tactics would make him into a World Class player that he showed at Lille. However, having to be in a perfect system for him still holds the point I wrote where he lacks talent and skill, where he's only effective like a substrate fitting in with its enzyme active site.