Blue Jays Discussion: Winter Meeting madness II: Meetings may not be as mad as they appear.

[RayzorIsDull]

nm...

 

[p.l.f.]

yankees were 66-3 when leading after 6 innings last yr

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

yankees were 66-3 when leading after 6 innings last yr

Chapman's gotta make that 69-0. Talk about improving by leaps and bounds.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Sarcasm aside, the Yankees subtracted the very effective Justin Wilson (1.5) and Adam Warren (0.7), from an already effective bullpen, coupled with the law of diminishing returns, and one logically must wonder if they've materially improved at all.

 

[zeke]

castro and hicks in. chapman in, severino fulltime. they're better, and were already good. very creatively aggressive offseason for a good team trying to get better.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

castro and hicks in. chapman in, severino fulltime. they're better, and were already good. very creatively aggressive offseason for a good team trying to get better.

Right combined with Teix/Ellsbury only playing 111 games each, with some better health, Greg Bird making improvements. The Yankees were still an 87 win team last year it's not like they were barely .500.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Right combined with Teix/Ellsbury only playing 111 games each, with some better health, Greg Bird making improvements. The Yankees were still an 87 win team last year it's not like they were barely .500.

And most would agree they played over their heads. The underachieving Redsox are a much bigger threat.

 

[zeke]

the yankees didn't overperform, and the red sox didn't underachieve.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

And most would agree they played over their heads. The underachieving Redsox are a much bigger threat.

Actually according Pythagorean W-L they were an 88 win team.

 

[theaub]

I don't buy the Yankees. Tex/Ellsbury playing 111 games is a lot closer to the norm than the exception and as much as I want A-Rod to be good forever I would be surprised if he's close to as good as last year. They are pretty much us with inferior offense, defense and rotation (but a far superior bullpen).

The Red Sox are the best team in the division IMO

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Is the bullpen going to result in additional wins given that, as Plf so aptly noted, it was already proficient?

Will Aaron Hicks and Starlin Castro's stellar 97 and 80 wRC+ propel the Yankees offense into the stratosphere? An offense who's three main producers in 2015 are 36 (coming off a leg fracture), 40 (coming off a 2nd half wRC+ of 108), and 39?

Will Tanaka, Pineda, Severino and Eovaldi's elbows all explode in a glorious UCL fireworks display, lighting the Bronx ablaze like it was 1977!?!!

Tune in this April to find out....same Bat time...same Bat channel.

 

[zeke]

what part of the red sox is better than the yankees?

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Actually according Pythagorean W-L they were an 88 win team.

Well I guess it depends how much stock you put into that.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

what part of the red sox is better than the yankees?

On paper they're the better team. I don't even think that's debatable. They were massive underachievers last year up until September or so. And all they've done is improve by adding an ace and elite pen arm. Boston is our biggest competition next season.

 

[zeke]

On paper they're the better team. I don't even think that's debatable. They were massive underachievers last year up until September or so. And all they've done is improve by adding an ace and elite pen arm. Boston is our biggest competition next season.

of course it's debatable. actually way more than just debatable. yankees have been the far better team in each of the last 2yrs, and have improved significantly this offseason.

boston was overrated 2yrs ago. overrated last year. and are overrated this year again. they had as many significant overachievers last year as they did underachievers. the fact that they had a babip-infused hot streak in august after they were virtually eliminated is meaningless. adding price is a nice upgrade, but not enough to turn a last place team into a favorite.

 

[theaub]

They got Price and a couple of really nice bullpen pieces in Smith and Kimbrel and they bring back pretty much everyone from an offense that was 4th in the majors last year (and unlike the Yankees, most of the guys who contributed to that are in the upward stage of their careers).

Throw in the inevitable dead cat bounce from Hanley and Sandoval and that's a damn good team.

 

[TF97]

You think James Shields is going to opt out of his deal leaving 21 mil/yr on the table in 2017 and 2018? Considering he will be age 35 and 36 during those years I don't see any way he opts out of that.

I only put him on the list because he is one of the better pitchers who can become a free agent. As of now, I don't see him opting out. But with a good first half, well then it is possible seeing as how there aren't many top arms available in free agency next season so some team might give him a bigger contract.

 

[AllDay28]

Is the bullpen going to result in additional wins given that, as Plf so aptly noted, it was already proficient?

Will Aaron Hicks and Starlin Castro's stellar 97 and 80 wRC+ propel the Yankees offense into the stratosphere? An offense who's three main producers in 2015 are 36 (coming off a leg fracture), 40 (coming off a 2nd half wRC+ of 108), and 39?

Will Tanaka, Pineda, Severino and Eovaldi's elbows all explode in a glorious UCL fireworks display, lighting the Bronx ablaze like it was 1977!?!!

Tune in this April to find out....same Bat time...same Bat channel.

we've had disagreements in the past but i pretty much agree word for word with your last 3-4 comments. Castro is sooooooooo overrated

 

[one77]

All other teams making moves to improve their lineup and get better... but the Jays decide to stand pat and build a very average starting rotation, and not add any bullpen arms to a pen that was already very poor.

I guess we have to depend on Donaldson to be MVP again, Bautista and EE to continue hitting well, Tulo to find his offensive groove and not get injured, and the rest of our offense to be top 2-3 in the league. Or we are screwed. And even if all this happens, we will likely be in the same position as last year; good but not good enough because of a weak bullpen (and this year a bunch of average starting pitchers).

Cool.

 

[BackHandShelf22]

All other teams making moves to improve their lineup and get better... but the Jays decide to stand pat and build a very average starting rotation, and not add any bullpen arms to a pen that was already very poor.

I guess we have to depend on Donaldson to be MVP again, Bautista and EE to continue hitting well, Tulo to find his offensive groove and not get injured, and the rest of our offense to be top 2-3 in the league. Or we are screwed. And even if all this happens, we will likely be in the same position as last year; good but not good enough because of a weak bullpen (and this year a bunch of average starting pitchers).

Cool.

All we need from JD, Jose and EE is to perform to their career norms. Neither Jose or EE had career years and both have been remarkably consistent in terms of bb/k and the usual counting stats.

Our bullpen was decent, not 'very poor'. 11th in war. 12th in ERA. Top 5 xFIP which takes into account the average home run to fly ball ratio.

Amazing what happens when you show your work.

Despite all that, pieces should be added to the pen. And they will. But we're not screwed either way.

 

[one77]

All we need from JD, Jose and EE is to perform to their career norms. Neither Jose or EE had career years and both have been remarkably consistent in terms of bb/k and the usual counting stats.

Our bullpen was decent, not 'very poor'. 11th in war. 12th in ERA. Top 5 xFIP which takes into account the average home run to fly ball ratio.

Amazing what happens when you show your work.

Despite all that, pieces should be added to the pen. And they will. But we're not screwed either way.

We couldn't win last year, what makes you think we could this year? (genuinely curious)

We didn't build a better bullpen, our starting rotation is probably better than what we started with last year but realistically it is not a World Series calibre rotation whatsoever... the only positive is at least we kept our offense intact - or have we? EE putting some pressure on Shapiro, which hopefully will not lead to Jose doing the same, causing us to most likely trade one of them.

 

[BackHandShelf22]

We couldn't win last year, what makes you think we could this year? (genuinely curious)

It's a long season, any number of things can happen. The team got to the ALCS. A play made here, a call goes for us rather than against there, and you're talking about a world series berth. When you're dealing in those sort of 'what ifs' it's best to just admit we have no idea what will happen. Just bring back the same core pieces, make a few tweaks, and hope they can do it all over again.

We didn't build a better bullpen, our starting rotation is probably better than what we started with last year but realistically it is not a World Series calibre rotation whatsoever... the only positive is at least we kept our offense intact - or have we? EE putting some pressure on Shapiro, which hopefully will not lead to Jose doing the same, causing us to most likely trade one of them.

The bullpen is the only area I see needing some definitive improvement before the season starts. The fact that it's december means I'm not overly interested in getting upset at this point.

Yes, it's the same offense. Worrying about the EE and Jose stuff is like worrying about the boogeyman. Not worth the sweat. As of today they're on our team and will produce as they usually do.

 

[Kurtz]

All we need from JD, Jose and EE is to perform to their career norms. Neither Jose or EE had career years and both have been remarkably consistent in terms of bb/k and the usual counting stats.

Our bullpen was decent, not 'very poor'. 11th in war. 12th in ERA. Top 5 xFIP which takes into account the average home run to fly ball ratio.

Amazing what happens when you show your work.

Despite all that, pieces should be added to the pen. And they will. But we're not screwed either way.

We did have a solid bullpen by the grace of Osuna and Liam Hendricks. It still wasn't good enough until we added Lowe. Now we just need to replace Lowe AND Hendricks, without spending any money...

 

[BackHandShelf22]

We did have a solid bullpen by the grace of Osuna and Liam Hendricks. It still wasn't good enough until we added Lowe. Now we just need to replace Lowe AND Hendricks, without spending any money...

..and Sanchez, and Cecil. It was a good pen. Hendriks wasn't used in high leverage situations for a long period of time. Much to the chagrin of people here myself included. I expect a bounceback season from Loup aswell despite people thinking he's hot garbage.

 

[TF97]

I wonder when people will realize that 30+ Stroman starts is better than 11 Price starts...