Winnipeg Sun: Jets, Mark Chipman, call for help as attendance decreases

[Yukon Joe]

I thought Jets tickets were on average?

They seem to be around the middle of the league.

Average ticket price in the NHL by team 2019/20 | Statista

This graph depicts the average ticket price of all National Hockey League teams in the 2019/20.

www.statista.com

 

[edog37]

Players who want an easy life collecting a paycheque somewhere warm away from scrutiny don't want to play in Winnipeg.

Players who want to win have no problem with it.

When did the Jets ever win outside of the WHA days?

They said attendance would NEVER be an issue! They implied the team would sell out in perpetuity.

Further underlining the hypocrisy of Canadian markets.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Just as a small tangent I don't think I've ever dropped on this board before, my family and I went to the HHoF in 1992 and the Avco Cup was not in a case (it was on some sort of uncovered pedestal instead). To this day, I'm 85% confident that if I'd wanted to, I could have just picked it up and walked out of the building and I'm not sure who would have noticed.

I was about to say "But the AVCO Cup is in Winnipeg!", but googling tells me there were three physical AVCO Cups, One is indeed at the HHOF, one is in Winnipeg at the Manitoba Sports Hall of Fame, and the third is in Halifax at the Nova Scotia Sports Hall of Fame (any idea why Halifax?).

 

[Yukon Joe]

When did the Jets ever win outside of the WHA days?

Further underlining the hypocrisy of Canadian markets.

Jets (in either the Jets/Coyotes franchise, or the Thrashers/Jets franchise) have won nothing outside of the WHA. But then again since 1972, what have the Leafs won? The Canucks? Sabres? Or going to franchises newer than 1972, but still many years - the Panthers? Sharks? WIld? Senators? CBJ?



And please tell me how a market can be hypocritical.

 

[BMN]

...and the third is in Halifax at the Nova Scotia Sports Hall of Fame (any idea why Halifax?).

I'm a Cape Bretoner and my sister plus many other family members live in Halifax and yet I was still today-years-old when I learned this. I have no idea and I'm intrigued to find out...

And please tell me how a market can be hypocritical.

You don't attend your market's daily meeting to co-sign all inflammatory statements made by your area's analysts and pundits? I'm shocked! I assumed everyone attended those meetings.

Also, this could be a "Berenstain Bears"/fuzzy memory thing going on, but I seem to recall skepticism about Winnipeg not only solely existing through "America vs. Canada" or "north/traditional vs. south/non-traditional" lenses (though those arguments certainly existed) but also through "big city/small city" lenses. Wasn't Bob McCown somewhat skeptical of Winnipeg working out back in the day? (I totally could be making that up so I'm seeking clarity...that's kind of how I remember it).

It also reminds me of the first Jets v2.0 game when one of the CBC commentators (I want to say it was Kelly Hrudey) made a remark about the "fans are here in the seats as the period begins!" and a Thrashers forum I visited was salty about it being a dig on the Atlanta market. I replied "honestly, they cover a tonne of Leafs games that sell out but everyone bouchys it up in the concourse long into the 1st or 2nd period so I honestly took it more as a dig at that....." It's all about what you're sensitive to.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Also, this could be a "Berenstain Bears"/fuzzy memory thing going on, but I seem to recall skepticism about Winnipeg not only solely existing through "America vs. Canada" or "north/traditional vs. south/non-traditional" lenses (though those arguments certainly existed) but also through "big city/small city" lenses. Wasn't Bob McCown somewhat skeptical of Winnipeg working out back in the day? (I totally could be making that up so I'm seeking clarity...that's kind of how I remember it).

Pre-2011 I would wear vintage Jets gear and get lots of comments about "Hey, I hope they come back!" but also yes, in particular in online forums or in sports media a lot of serious skepticism about the likelihood that the NHL would ever come back to Winnipeg from large market Canadian fans or media personalities.

Heck, there's a non-sports forum I've visited for a couple of decades now, and every May 31 (the day Chipman announced the sale of the Thrashers) I bounce a thread entitled "I TOLD YOU SO!".

 

[WpgSteve]

When did the Jets ever win outside of the WHA days?

My point was that serious players don't care about things like weather, shopping or nightlife. All they care about is playing where they will get the best opportunity. This might be Winnipeg or it might not.

If a player refuses to sign in Winnipeg despite it being his best opportunity to play and win, I have to conclude that such player doesn't care about winning. Or at best winning is secondary to lifestyle. We don't need these type of players on our team.

 

[Stumbledore]

If a player refuses to sign in Winnipeg despite it being his best opportunity to play and win, I have to conclude that such player doesn't care about winning.

Or perhaps has a wife or gf who wants to live somewhere else?

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Players have different preferences and values, but I don't think it's unreasonable to imagine that a player could simultaneously want to win but not play for the smallest market in the NHL that is also renowned for having fairly brutal winters.

Some players might be attracted to bright lights, or sunny beaches, or playing for a hometown crowd, or to be able to blend in without much media attention while still being fiercely competitive on the ice and trying their damndest to win.

And not wanting players that want a nice lifestyle? What? First, that's really selling your town short. Second, they're not spartans obsessed with battle to the point that they forgo everything else. And even if they were, they died out, so not exactly replicable or desirable as an ideal.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

It isn’t an issue.
It isn’t an issue if they drew 8,000 fans a night.
Know why?
Because the OWNERS don’t have an issue with attendance here. Bottom line. Full stop.
The only place it is an issue is in your head.
Winnipeg, like it or not, isn’t going anywhere anytime soon or in the distant future.

Agree with the post with exception of the owners not having an issue. Let’s not forget the title of the thread.

 

[Gnashville]

It isn’t an issue.
It isn’t an issue if they drew 8,000 fans a night.
Know why?
Because the OWNERS don’t have an issue with attendance here. Bottom line. Full stop.
The only place it is an issue is in your head.
Winnipeg, like it or not, isn’t going anywhere anytime soon or in the distant future.

Ditto every other market especially US Sunbelt markets, if the owner is the one losing money and if he is happy then stop criticizing fans for things out of their control. Funny how Winnipeg fans can’t be criticized as if they have some sacredness

 

[roccerfeller]

Looking at the some of the data (which seems hard to believe) you are correct. I may stand corrected.

Jets used to have some of the highest prices when they first returned. Since then has averaged out.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Ditto every other market especially US Sunbelt markets, if the owner is the one losing money and if he is happy then stop criticizing fans for things out of their control. Funny how Winnipeg fans can’t be criticized as if they have some sacredness

Who says Winnipeg fans can't be criticized? You're doing it pretty consistently after all.

 

[Salsero1]

Who says Winnipeg fans can't be criticized? You're doing it pretty consistently after all.

I think he means when it happens in Winnipeg the community will circle the wagons.

When it happens in Nashville that same community will start sharpening the guillotine.

 

[BMN]

I think he means when it happens in Winnipeg the community will circle the wagons.

When it happens in Nashville that same community will start sharpening the guillotine.

Who is this "same community" of which you speak?

There's criticism of southern markets from one corner, criticism of Winnipeg from another. You're implying a third corner that is "unfair" and only supplies support for Winnipeg. Who represents this third corner in your mind?

 

[Salsero1]

Who is this "same community" of which you speak?

There's criticism of southern markets from one corner, criticism of Winnipeg from another. You're implying a third corner that is "unfair" and only supplies support for Winnipeg. Who represents this third corner in your mind?

[mod]

If a southern market struggles, everyone gets mad at us. If a northern market struggles, southern fans point it out and everyone else makes excuses as to why it's ok.

 

[BMN]

[mod]

If a southern market struggles, everyone gets mad at us. If a northern market struggles, southern fans point it out and everyone else makes excuses as to why it's ok.

[mod]

Let's take a reasonable premise: the same people who take up for the market you currently criticize are people who are mad you're criticizing WIN in kind. You think they're hypocrites. OK. That's a fair take to have.

But you're taking it one step further by implying there's this magical "everyone" out there playing referee between the two sides (always taking up against you). OK fine then. Name them. Who are these mythical "everyones?"

 

[Melrose Munch]

It isn’t an issue.
It isn’t an issue if they drew 8,000 fans a night.
Know why?
Because the OWNERS don’t have an issue with attendance here. Bottom line. Full stop.
The only place it is an issue is in your head.
Winnipeg, like it or not, isn’t going anywhere anytime soon or in the distant future.

Chipman made attendance the issue, not HFBoards, imo.

My point was that serious players don't care about things like weather, shopping or nightlife. All they care about is playing where they will get the best opportunity. This might be Winnipeg or it might not.

If a player refuses to sign in Winnipeg despite it being his best opportunity to play and win, I have to conclude that such player doesn't care about winning. Or at best winning is secondary to lifestyle. We don't need these type of players on our team.

They absolutely do and its a major reason why there hasn't been a Canadian cup winner in 31 years. Just in Toronto now its -9c with blowing wind. Not ideal, and this is it until April.

Ditto every other market especially US Sunbelt markets, if the owner is the one losing money and if he is happy then stop criticizing fans for things out of their control. Funny how Winnipeg fans can’t be criticized as if they have some sacredness

I think Nashville has earned the right to be a hockey town. There were also issues a long time ago. Nashville had a committed owner, something Atlanta never got.

 

[Melrose Munch]

[mod]

Let's take a reasonable premise: the same people who take up for the market you currently criticize are people who are mad you're criticizing WIN in kind. You think they're hypocrites. OK. That's a fair take to have.

But you're taking it one step further by implying there's this magical "everyone" out there playing referee between the two sides (always taking up against you). OK fine then. Name them. Who are these mythical "everyones?"

Be serious man. A lot of western Canadian fans come out southern markets all the time. The idea that it's hyperbole is ridiculous.

 

[BMN]

Be serious man. A lot of western Canadian fans come out southern markets all the time. The idea that it's hyperbole is ridiculous.

I am serious, man. You didn't read my post nor dissect the question I was asking.

Is your beef that Western Canadian fans that don't live in Winnipeg need to be evenhanded and come after Winnipeg the same way they come after Nashville? Do I need to hold everyone in Atlanta, Nashville and Florida to that same standard when it comes to Carolina?

Again, I see two sides razzing each other. @Salsero1 is implying there's some mythical "third side" making it "unfair" by always taking one side (the Canadian one, or Winnipeg one, or whatever). I want to know who this "third side" is.

 

[Yukon Joe]

If a southern market struggles, everyone gets mad at us. If a northern market struggles, southern fans point it out and everyone else makes excuses as to why it's ok.

Be serious man. A lot of western Canadian fans come out southern markets all the time. The idea that it's hyperbole is ridiculous.

Not picking on just the two of you, but you're the two most recent examples.

There's a lot of discussion about "everyone", or "southern fans" or "western Canadian fans" as if there are some monolithic blocks.

May I make a humble suggestion: don't bother arguing against some mysterious "them". If you have an argument or point to make, make it. If you disagree with what a specific poster is saying, disagree with that poster.

But otherwise - I am a hockey fan living in western Canada. I am not however going to bother defending what "everyone" says. In particular I'm not going to defend the "hypocrisy" of the mysterious "everyone".

 

[No Fun Shogun]

The simple fact is that literally whenever any southern team has any attendance or financing or roster issues, there's inevitably a flood of people swarming in offering for them to relocate somewhere in Quebec, Ontario, Saskatchewan, or Connecticut. Seems only logical for boo-birds to show up when a "traditional" market has issues as well, and in fact that was the case during Chicago's and Pittsburgh's down years in the pre-Kane/Toews and pre-Crosby years.

But it's all non-sensical. A market will keep its team as long as a) the owner wants to stay there, or b) the owner is willing to sell to someone else that wants to stay there.

 

[ForumNamePending]

I remain mildly amused that in a thread where folks have been questioning Winnipeg's viability as a NHL market, others continue to whine about how unfair it was that their favourite team's viability was questioned at some point in the past due to soft attendance and/or shaky ownership.

Pre-2011 I would wear vintage Jets gear and get lots of comments about "Hey, I hope they come back!" but also yes, in particular in online forums or in sports media a lot of serious skepticism about the likelihood that the NHL would ever come back to Winnipeg from large market Canadian fans or media personalities.

Per my profile, looks like I didn't join HFB until 2012, but I lurked here for years, and the Jets 2.0 true believers seemed to get piled on as sorta delusional back then. When the NHL did return to Winnipeg, I remember at the time being surprised that those weirdos ended up being right.

 

[Yukon Joe]

The simple fact is that literally whenever any southern team has any attendance or financing or roster issues, there's inevitably a flood of people swarming in offering for them to relocate somewhere in Quebec, Ontario, Saskatchewan, or Connecticut. Seems only logical for boo-birds to show up when a "traditional" market has issues as well, and in fact that was the case during Chicago's and Pittsburgh's down years in the pre-Kane/Toews and pre-Crosby years.

But it's all non-sensical. A market will keep its team as long as a) the owner wants to stay there, or b) the owner is willing to sell to someone else that wants to stay there.

So yes - if people want to argue that Winnipeg should be relocated because they're no longer consistently selling out games they can have at it and make the argument. Nothing sacred about Canadian hockey markets - and indeed historically some have relocated south in the past,

What I don't get though is the charge of "hypocrisy" - that because some unnamed fans in the past complained about southern markets attendance, either on this board or somewhere else, that now all fans are supposed to complain when northern hockey markets have bad attendance.

 

[Takuto Maruki]

They absolutely do and its a major reason why there hasn't been a Canadian cup winner in 31 years. Just in Toronto now its -9c with blowing wind. Not ideal, and this it until April.

I think it has more to do with the utter randomness of the playoffs then anything else, not the weather.

Also who *legitimately* cares about their being *a* Canadian cup winner drought, and not simply their own team's drought? Do you actually think that someone from Toronto or Vancouver is going to pat the other on the back because they brought a cup back to the motherland like this is some sort of national project thing? Hell no, both of them hate the other!

It's so weird the little dog mentality Canadian hockey fans of a certain ilk have towards there being a Canadian cup drought like Canada should have a god given right to have a cup, and I have not at all seen this in Jays fans or Raptors fans pre-2019, it strictly comes from frankly pathetic nationalists who wrap up their entire existence in the NHL having been 'taken over' and conspiring via Bettman's actions to lock out Canadian teams from ever gaining a foothold.