Winnipeg looks good

[kelsier]

I don't think the "best player in the world" would require specific line mates to be the "best player in the world."

The best player in the world doesn't need to be on a specific line to be better. He would be the guy you put guys with to make THEM better.

Laine is an excellent finisher. One of the best in the world. At no point has he ever been the driving force on a line though. Ehlers is WAY better at creating space for himself.

Hands: Ehlers
Speed: Ehlers
Vision: Ehlers
Shot: Laine X 10000000000.

Don't get me wrong, Laine can pull off a toe drag and he has some pretty good board play, but he's not even close to where he needs to be to be in the "best player" category.

Could argue with almost everything there aside from speed, but vision? Seriously? I've stopped counting the times when Ehlers' tries to pass the puck from behind the opponent's goal just to blast it straight to his own end (like he had blinders on). Happened against Preds as well after he missed an empty net. He does not have a vision even close as good as Laine and I'd say it's around average at best right now. Ehlers has speed going for him along with a pretty good shot and pair of hands, enough to make a nice career in the NHL.

 

[JetsHomer]

Toews might score 50 in the final 20 games and get in the top 3

Yeah the difference is Wheeler is currently on pace for 95 with only 19 games to go

 

[Psych0dad]

The objective of the game is to win.

The way to win is to score more than opponent.

This gives us a value system to analyze hockey.

A goal is primary because only goals win games.

Assists and everything else is secondary and complimentary to goal scoring.

In the current point system, the flaw is that assists and goals have same value which is logically false. They don't.

There are 1.7 assists to every one goal. This further complicates things because assists are way more common.

You could count some sort of a more realistic total value by multiplying goals by 1.7 and taking assists as 1.

Or you could do away with the assist points if you're really radical. I'd track them but not count them. Those stats are distracting people from the objective.

So yeah you could count value and it definitely doesn't land on the art ross winner that many times. Depends on the criteria they put in I guess.

I mean, hart trophy is opinion based, it doesn't have a statistical criteria.

 

[GoJetsGo55]

Could argue with almost everything there aside from speed, but vision? Seriously? I've stopped counting the times when Ehlers' tries to pass the puck from behind the opponent's goal just to blast it straight to his own end (like he had blinders on). Happened against Preds as well after he missed an empty net. He does not have a vision even close as good as Laine and I'd say it's around average at best right now. Ehlers has speed going for him along with a pretty good shot and pair of hands, enough to make a nice career in the NHL.

We're both coming at this from our own points of view. Is Ehlers perfect? No; but I've been to games where Laine has single handily killed off our own PP with his mistakes. I think both have a lot of growing to do in that aspect. I don't think either are terrible though.

 

[GoJetsGo55]

The objective of the game is to win.

The way to win is to score more than opponent.

This gives us a value system to analyze hockey.

A goal is primary because only goals win games.

Assists and everything else is secondary and complimentary to goal scoring.

In the current point system, the flaw is that assists and goals have same value which is logically false. They don't.

There are 1.7 assists to every one goal. This further complicates things because assists are way more common.

You could count some sort of a more realistic total value by multiplying goals by 1.7 and taking assists as 1.

Or you could do away with the assist points if you're really radical. I'd track them but not count them. Those stats are distracting people from the objective.

So yeah you could count value and it definitely doesn't land on the art ross winner that many times. Depends on the criteria they put in I guess.

I mean, hart trophy is opinion based, it doesn't have a statistical criteria.

Again, you are viewing this VERY simplistically. A guy could skate around 5 guys, pull the holy grail out of his arse, and pass it cross crease for a tap in and your system would value the guy who did very little.

 

[Psych0dad]

It's a simple way of viewing a complex game that doesn't always tell the full story.

If point totals are everything then what would be have to add to Laine to get Reilly Smith?

58 points > 53 points.

Simplicity is key in everything my friend. It's the only way to keep it real.

To form an accurate image of reality. You have to ignore all the noise of bias and dishonesty, and just deconstruct everything about what you are studying at the monent (in this case hockey) and parse the information.

 

[GoJetsGo55]

Simplicity is key in everything my friend. It's the only way to keep it real.

To form an accurate image of reality. You have to ignore all the noise of bias and dishonesty, and just deconstruct everything about what you are studying at the monent (in this case hockey) and parse the information.

Simplicity is key? Alright you've won me over.

Reilly smith is better than Laine as 58 > 53.

Do not break down the numbers.....keep it.....simple.

 

[Psych0dad]

Again, you are viewing this VERY simplistically. A guy could skate around 5 guys, pull the holy grail out of his arse, and pass it cross crease for a tap in and your system would value the guy who did very little.

That could one day happen and that's unfortunate that the style points are not appreciated by this system.

But it also doesn't exclude points that you had almost nothing to do with but got them anyway. It gives them the same value of 1.

They cancel each other out so to speak.

 

[TheDoldrums]

I have previously been able to gauge Laine fairly accurately through the last 3 years or so, but one trend has been clear, I'm always betting too low on him. He beats my predictions at every stage. And people really think that I'm overrating him, even though I'm just underestimating him less than most are.

You said he would score 115 points this year. How is that betting too low on him? How is he beating that prediction?

 

[Psych0dad]

You said he would score 115 points this year. How is that betting too low on him? How is he beating that prediction?

I always put a Maurice disclaimer in my predictions. I said if he plays first line and first PP with Chef he will do that.

I didn't expect him to be buried in the line that clearly kills his offense. There weren't signs of that. He played preseason with Chef and Wheeler and was great. Then he started the season and stayed with Little.

I didn't think of the financial aspect in mind so I didn't see the usage coming. Mistake on my part.

If you can find that prediction somewhere I'd like to see the whole post. Context.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I'll eat my hand if Laine ever puts up 140 points in this scoring environment. If Crosby can't do it then I don't think anyone will ever sniff 140 unless there are some major changes to the game. Let's not get carried away here boys.

That's not happening in today's hockey. Had Laine played in the 80's perhaps. But players do not play that type of game no longer. I wish we get back to a more realistic precedent when discussing Laine and what he may achieve. I said this the other day. He will have 75 goals in the bank when he goes into this 20 year old season. Making him just over 400 goals to 500. This sis a good place to start. And when this happens I really doubt many will look back and say this is a bad legacy. Chances are he will have many more years to improve on this, where he will be known as one of the best players of his era. And worthy for those that believe he is the best player picked from his draft class.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

Toews might score 50 in the final 20 games and get in the top 3

You're surly not trying to imply that is as likely as Wheeler finishing with 95+ points right? There's no way you are that dense.

 

[TheDoldrums]

I always put a Maurice disclaimer in my predictions. I said if he plays first line and first PP with Chef he will do that.

I didn't expect him to be buried in the line that clearly kills his offense. There weren't signs of that. He played preseason with Chef and Wheeler and was great. Then he started the season and stayed with Little.

I didn't think of the financial aspect in mind so I didn't see the usage coming. Mistake on my part.

If you can find that prediction somewhere I'd like to see the whole post. Context.

Here is the whole post

Laine 115 points

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/136196693/

 

[kelsier]

Again, you are viewing this VERY simplistically. A guy could skate around 5 guys, pull the holy grail out of his arse, and pass it cross crease for a tap in and your system would value the guy who did very little.

Sorry but no, not even close. It has always been Laine who finds Ehlers and not the other way around. Ehlers is a fine player but seeing the ice is one of the aspects he has tons of room left to gain if he wants to find another level. Some of the times he seems to only vision the puck in the net (and the view doesn't usually include the line mates). A bit baffling for someone to claim a rather clear weakness as a strength. Anyway, sounds like you've been watching the Knightfall instead of the Jets to be honest.

 

[DashingDane]

Sorry but no, not even close. It has always been Laine who finds Ehlers and not the other way around. Ehlers is a fine player but seeing the ice is one of the aspects he has tons of room left to gain if he wants to find another level. Some of the times he seems to only vision the puck in the net (and the view doesn't usually include the line mates). A bit baffling for someone to claim a rather clear weakness as a strength. Anyway, sounds like you've been watching the Knightfall instead of the Jets to be honest.

1. It’s hard to see someone when they are consistently 20ft behind you. Ever since Laine started moving his feet he has been fed.

2. When there is no passing option you put the puck on net. Stats have time and time again shown how important shot volume is.

 

[GoJetsGo55]

Sorry but no, not even close. It has always been Laine who finds Ehlers and not the other way around. Ehlers is a fine player but seeing the ice is one of the aspects he has tons of room left to gain if he wants to find another level. Some of the times he seems to only vision the puck in the net (and the view doesn't usually include the line mates). A bit baffling for someone to claim a rather clear weakness as a strength. Anyway, sounds like you've been watching the Knightfall instead of the Jets to be honest.

Hey if that's how you feel, I got nothing concrete to refute it other than my opinion. I am not saying Laine is bad.

 

[kelsier]

1. It’s hard to see someone when they are consistently 20ft behind you. Ever since Laine started moving his feet he has been fed.

2. When there is no passing option you put the puck on net. Stats have time and time again shown how important shot volume is.

I didn't mean that Ehlers had a bad vision but rather that compared to his strengths it was a weakness. Of course you try to score when you have a chance but sometimes you need to learn how to slow the game down instead of doing the expected. He would be so far more lethal if he used his line mates more. I do think he's more of a goal scorer than Laine is in that regard (just not as good) because he is much more straightforward that comes to creating offence.

Hey if that's how you feel, I got nothing concrete to refute it other than my opinion. I am not saying Laine is bad.

There's nothing wrong in voicing an opinion. I don't take it personal if someone disagrees with me.

 

[PhilJets]

1. It’s hard to see someone when they are consistently 20ft behind you. Ever since Laine started moving his feet he has been fed.

2. When there is no passing option you put the puck on net. Stats have time and time again shown how important shot volume is.

Maybe he was covering up for these other players?
Laine a lot of times are one of the first forward back on D.

Maybe the other players thats with him now think the same wavelength as him.

 

[thejaf7]

As Laine found his scoring touch and Ehlers back in the lineup, could the Jets be out of their slump and be back to form?

 

[BlueBaron]

The objective of the game is to win.

The way to win is to score more than opponent.

This gives us a value system to analyze hockey.

A goal is primary because only goals win games.

Assists and everything else is secondary and complimentary to goal scoring.

In the current point system, the flaw is that assists and goals have same value which is logically false. They don't.

There are 1.7 assists to every one goal. This further complicates things because assists are way more common.

You could count some sort of a more realistic total value by multiplying goals by 1.7 and taking assists as 1.

Or you could do away with the assist points if you're really radical. I'd track them but not count them. Those stats are distracting people from the objective.

So yeah you could count value and it definitely doesn't land on the art ross winner that many times. Depends on the criteria they put in I guess.

I mean, hart trophy is opinion based, it doesn't have a statistical criteria.

Conversely you also have to give up fewer goals. Points really aren't everything or goalies would never win. You can call the guy who scored the one goal in a 1-0 game the hero but I think the D and G probably played a bigger role in that win.

Clichés can sound nice but they do not always hold up to scrutiny.

 

[General Disarray]

Is there a 2018/19 version of this thread? Why is thread from last season being bumped?

 

[Mbraunm]

As Laine found his scoring touch and Ehlers back in the lineup, could the Jets be out of their slump and be back to form?

Yes, as long as Maurice keeps the line combos he used yesterday the Jets will be a good team going forward.

 

[Flair Hay]

Is there a 2018/19 version of this thread? Why is thread from last season being bumped?

Because we finally had a good game again and someone wanted people to know. Not exactly the purest of motives, if you will.