Winnipeg Jets – How do you transfer history?

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by MuzikMachine, Jun 1, 2011.

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  1. MuzikMachine

    MuzikMachine Registered User

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    Now that the NHL is back in Winnipeg and assuming that they assume the Jets name, how do they handle historical references (retired numbers, team records, etc.) between Jets I (current Phoenix Coyotes) and Jets II? Is there a precedence in North American pro sports for an organization to leave a city and a new team relocates or expands into that city and assumes the same name?

    Consider that when the Cleveland Browns relocated to Baltimore to become the Ravens, the transfer was officially constructed in such a way the Cleveland Browns suspended operations, the Ravens were considered an expansion team and assumed the Browns roster, and when the Browns II aren’t really considered an expansion team.

    What about NHL franchises? How do some of the previously relocated franchises regard their previous cities? Do the Flames, Devils, Stars, Hurricanes, Coyotes, and Avalanche refer to their time in Atlanta, Kansas City/Colorado, Minnesota, Hartford, Winnipeg, and Quebec respectively? Do they have retired numbers or team records for players who never actually played in that city but were part of that organization (i.e. Colorado – are there any team records or retired numbers for Quebec Nordiques?).

    What about teams that returned to a market? Do the Wild, Avalanche, or Sharks refer to previous teams like the North Stars, Rockies, or the Seals?
     
  2. begbeee

    begbeee Registered User

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    There would be no transfer of history, if....

    Winnipeg Jets I franchise plays in Phoenix and Coyotes own the rights of Jets trademark and all the stuff.

    It is the same as Minnesota Wild couldnt refer to North Stars b/c North Stars play in Dallas.

    ...but current owner of the Coyotes is NHL, so who knows what will happen...
     
  3. Stephen

    Stephen Registered User

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    Funny thing, the original Ottawa Senators moved to St. Louis, became the Eagles, then folded. The St. Louis got the Blues, and many years later, a new expansion Ottawa Senators team was established that freely draws from the original heritage. Who is who?
     
  4. 19Yzerman19

    19Yzerman19 Registered User

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    I think you answered your own question. The original Senators ceised (sp?) to exist and when the Blues were created the were just that brand new with no reason to jump on a heritage of team that only played part of what 1 season there.

    So it there was no problem with the new Senators bringing back the history of the past that the original Senators provide.
     
  5. Buck Aki Berg

    Buck Aki Berg Done with this place

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    As far as I'm concerned, it's an irrelevant question.

    The entire city of Winnipeg knows the history. They'll tell you in what bar they watched game 6 of the 1987 Smythe Semifinals when they won their only playoff series, they'll do their best Teemu Selanne shooting impression, and all six hundred thousand of them will claim to have been in Winnipeg Arena the night Dave Ellett scored in double overtime to push the Oilers to the brink of elimination in 1990.

    It doesn't matter whether or not the NHL "allows" the new Winnipeg team to take on the history of its predecessor, and it doesn't matter whether or not TNSE chooses to embrace that history. The history of the Winnipeg Jets belongs to the city of Winnipeg, and everyone who went through the turnstiles at Winnipeg Arena or turned on their televisions at home, regardless of who owns retired numbers and statistics from prior seasons.
     
  6. reckoning

    reckoning Registered User

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    When the Cleveland Browns returned to the NFL as an expansion team, everything that was part of the old franchise (i.e. all of Jim Brown's records) were considered as part of the current teams heritage rather than Baltimore's. I think that's the way it should be.

    The sport is supposed to be for the fans, and the fans who will be supporting the Jets next year are the same ones who supported the team before. The teams history are their memories.

    Where should Dale Hawerchuk's retired number hang: in Winnipeg where he played hundreds of games, or in Phoenix where he never played? I think the choice is obvious.
     
  7. WaveRaven

    WaveRaven Registered User

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    Wrong the NHL owns the rights to the Jets trademark.
     
  8. 19Yzerman19

    19Yzerman19 Registered User

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    btw who who exactly owns the Coyotes? :sarcasm:
     
  9. Canadiens1958

    Canadiens1958 Registered User

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    History

    History simply absorbs and describes events.
     
  10. begbeee

    begbeee Registered User

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    Whatever.
     
  11. SerbianEagle

    SerbianEagle Registered User

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    he told you the truth, so lose the attitude.

    bettman said it himself in an interview yesterday.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2011
  12. iamjs

    iamjs Unregistered User

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    they got your back, not your wallet

    There was no immediate word on whether the franchise will be named the Jets, a sentimental fan favorite and the name of the team in its first go-round in the league. The NHL owns the rights to the name.

    Does sportingnews.com work as a reliable source?

    http://aol.sportingnews.com/nhl/sto...heers-return-of-nhl-by-any-name#ixzz1O4KQIVNS
     
  13. begbeee

    begbeee Registered User

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    I have assumed that really doesnt matter if Phoenix or NHL owns rights when NHL owns whole Coyotes. So, whatever.
     
  14. McGuillicuddy

    McGuillicuddy Registered User

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    Don't be a putz. You were wrong and now you're backpedalling. Bettman has said in no uncertain terms that the new Winnipeg franchise is free to use the Jets name if they wish to do so. The only question that remains is whether True North wants to draw on this heritage or start something new with a new name.
     
  15. McGuillicuddy

    McGuillicuddy Registered User

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    Good post. I wasn't sure about how authentic it would be to draw on the Jets heritage with this new franchise, but your logic is solid here.
     
  16. Iain Fyffe

    Iain Fyffe Hockey fact-checker

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    I'm guessing they won't use it. They've been very cagey when asked the question directly, and you'd think if they're planning to use the name they'd announce it ASAP to drum up season ticket support.

    On the other hand, it's possible that they simple don't know yet.
     
  17. Jesus Christ Horburn

    Jesus Christ Horburn Registered User

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    Specific teams and franchises don't own logos or trademarks.

    The NHL owns everything.
     
  18. zimmy61

    zimmy61 Registered User

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  19. DJ Man

    DJ Man Registered User

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    I'd rather that a team had to leave the nickname and the record book behind when they move.

    Fortunately, none of the "Original Six" teams ever relocated. If they had, we'd see situations as in baseball, where Walter Johnson is claimed by Minnesota and John McGraw and Mel Ott by San Francisco.
     
  20. MuzikMachine

    MuzikMachine Registered User

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    That's the thing, Dale Hawerchuk's #10 does hang in Glendale, AZ even though he never played in the dessert - the same goes with Thomas Steen's #25 and Bobby Hull's #9; at least Tempo Numminen played in both Winnipeg and Phoenix. You would think there were would be some consideration to retire those numbers in Winnipeg, however there would be a scenario where two organizations are claiming the same players. Because the NHL owns the Coyotes and the Jets trademark, do you think the past history (i.e. team stats and retired numbers) could be transferred or purchased from the Coyotes? Could #9, #10, and #25 be unretired by Phoenix and retired by the Winnipeg Jets II?

    Granted most of this is philosophical and theoretical. I wonder who would claim the championship if the Jets I would have won the Stanley Cup.
     
  21. Was going to mention the same thing, good post. It's how I feel as well.
     
  22. vadim sharifijanov

    vadim sharifijanov ugh

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    i didn't know that. i thought the coyotes were acting as if the jets had never existed, like the avs with the nords. i'm pretty sure i heard that somewhere, but i guess that was false information.

    if quebec city gets another team, i don't see why goulet, stastny, and i think some of the WHA guys' numbers shouldn't go up in quebec city. it's not like the avs didn't put those numbers back into circulation.

    with winnipeg, i don't see why you can't have hawerchuk's #10 hanging in both arenas. if nothing else, he and steen and hull and whomever else would almost certainly be excited about it, and that's an automatic sell-out and media story should the franchise choose to hold pre-game ceremonies. nothing wrong with generating fan interest.
     
  23. RabbinsDuck

    RabbinsDuck Registered User

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    And will Winnepeg hang the sole banner hanging in the rafters in Atlanta?
     
  24. EpochLink

    EpochLink Canucks and Jets fan

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    Hawerchuk, Steen and Hull meant more to the city of Winnipeg..

    When Selanne retires, his is going up as well.
     
  25. DJ Man

    DJ Man Registered User

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    No, I would say that Atlanta gets to keep that. They can trot it out if they ever field (or rather ice) another team.
     

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