OT: Winnipeg Ice Thread

[jetdiehard]

Don’t get too excited about this Ice team, there will be no draw of fans and gone before you know it.

 

[Wolf357]

Don’t get too excited about this Ice team, there will be no draw of fans and gone before you know it.

Not the first post on HFboards about a team relocating to Winnipeg would be gone in 5 years ....

 

[Jets4Life]

I think the Moose are here to stay, unless WHL brings in much larger numbers in Winnipeg.

The only good place for our AHL team (or any future AHL team, per say Ottawa even) would be Thunder Bay. I wanted Ottawa to put their AHL team in St. John's. Thunder Bay is best suited for AHL/ECHL considering it'd be hard to put an OHL team there because of the distance from the nearest OHL city. They could support pro hockey and deserve it, but first they need a new arena.

Saskatoon would be an ideal location, considering it is the same distance from Winnipeg as T Bay. The obvious problem would be that the WHL Blades occupy the arena.

 

[Jets4Life]

The main difference is that supporting the Moose is also supporting the Jets as they are both under the TNSE umbrella. Supporting a WHL team does nothing in that regard.

I would rather have a WHL team as opposed to the Moose. Cheaper tickets, and more exciting hockey.

 

[Jets4Life]

I suggested Selkirk as a single year solution, because the idea of hosting a CHL team in Max Bell makes me laugh out loud.

It would be far better than having a team in Selkirk. 10000 people is inadequate for the WHL. At least in Winnipeg the team has 750000 market to draw from.

 

[sipowicz]

It would be far better than having a team in Selkirk. 10000 people is inadequate for the WHL. At least in Winnipeg the team has 750000 market to draw from.

Problem with Selkirk is that half the population couldn’t rub two nickels together and no one is driiving from Winnipeg to Selkirk to watch WHL hockey! Why would they.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

Saskatoon would be an ideal location, considering it is the same distance from Winnipeg as T Bay. The obvious problem would be that the WHL Blades occupy the arena.

I'd much rather see Saskatoon get an NHL team, I don't think they're cut out of AHL, more WHL if anything. I imagine an AHL team would be there by now if they truly did want AHL, likely a team from Calgary, Edmonton or Winnipeg. Thunder Bay, like I said, is more ideal in the sense that it's heavily populated but isn't a great place to put OHL in the sense of transportation. It's easier to go from Regina to Saskatoon, etc.

 

[Jets4Life]

I'd much rather see Saskatoon get an NHL team, I don't think they're cut out of AHL, more WHL if anything. I imagine an AHL team would be there by now if they truly did want AHL, likely a team from Calgary, Edmonton or Winnipeg. Thunder Bay, like I said, is more ideal in the sense that it's heavily populated but isn't a great place to put OHL in the sense of transportation. It's easier to go from Regina to Saskatoon, etc.

I heard that the arena in Saskatoon has a provision barring any Minor league team from using the facility as long as the Blades exist. The exception to this rule would be if the NHL grants the city a team, which is obviously not going to happen. Not sure if this is still the case.

 

[Bristo]

Don't be too quick to dismiss the "smaller" communities. I can't Speak for Selkirk because I've only been there a handful of times, but I can say with a lot of confidence that Steinbach could muster up enough support. Yeah, our reported population of ~16,000 looks small, but that totally forgets the tens-of-thousands of other people living in the area. Someone told me recently that the grocery stores in Steinbach service ~80,000 people - if they'll come this far for their groceries, they'll come here for other stuff too, including a WHL team.

There's also a lot of big corporations with deep pockets here who would be able to administer a team.

There is a two sheet complex. The Pistons play in the big arena with holds about 1,000 max. They have done some nice upgrades like a video board etc. It's a perfect for an MJHL team. However if I recall there was a proposal from a local business to invest in a new multiplex that the recently elected council turned down.

Well, you have a few details right, but a lot here is backward. You're right about our arena - it's a garbage facility, and could never host a WHL team. It's barely good enough for the MJHL team we have, but we've done a pretty good job of putting lipstick on that pig.

The proposal you are referring to was a vote-buying attempt by Hylife to garner votes for one of the mayoral candidates whose first priority was to get a new arena/multiplex on the move. That candidate didn't win the election, but that mostly comes from his reputation, and not that the city doesn't want or need a new facility. The new council has not voted on anything to do with regarding a sports venue in the 3 weeks since they were elected.

I would encourage folks to take a drive to Brandon to take in a Wheat Kings game, and see what the Keystone Center, or whatever it's called now, looks like. Keep in mind that it's an old building that holds about 5,000. That's the minimum in size and amenities of what is needed.

This is exactly what I've said - a newer, shinier version of the Keystone Center is definitely something Steinbach could do and fill. Easily.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Did you know that mor people live within a 30 minute drive from Steinbach’s arena than they do from the arena that the Brandon wheat kings play in. The problem is that Steinbach doesn’t have much of an arena. And that would also exclude everyone from within the city of Winnipeg boundaries.

 

[Deedog99]

Problem with Selkirk is that half the population couldn’t rub two nickels together and no one is driiving from Winnipeg to Selkirk to watch WHL hockey! Why would they.

 

[Al Camino]

Don't be too quick to dismiss the "smaller" communities. I can't Speak for Selkirk because I've only been there a handful of times, but I can say with a lot of confidence that Steinbach could muster up enough support. Yeah, our reported population of ~16,000 looks small, but that totally forgets the tens-of-thousands of other people living in the area. Someone told me recently that the grocery stores in Steinbach service ~80,000 people - if they'll come this far for their groceries, they'll come here for other stuff too, including a WHL team.

There's also a lot of big corporations with deep pockets here who would be able to administer a team.



Well, you have a few details right, but a lot here is backward. You're right about our arena - it's a garbage facility, and could never host a WHL team. It's barely good enough for the MJHL team we have, but we've done a pretty good job of putting lipstick on that pig.

The proposal you are referring to was a vote-buying attempt by Hylife to garner votes for one of the mayoral candidates whose first priority was to get a new arena/multiplex on the move. That candidate didn't win the election, but that mostly comes from his reputation, and not that the city doesn't want or need a new facility. The new council has not voted on anything to do with regarding a sports venue in the 3 weeks since they were elected.



This is exactly what I've said - a newer, shinier version of the Keystone Center is definitely something Steinbach could do and fill. Easily.

Thanks for the clarification on the subject. Municipal politics is one greasy business.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I've said this earlier in the thread but I think it bears repeating because I think it's being missed or glossed over:

True North and the Ice ownership group (and the Rink for that matter) are all very closely tied together. Matt Cockell was both in the TN org and 24-7 Intouch. 24-7 Intouch has a suite and a key sponsorship agreement with the Jets. 24-7 Intouch is the major contributor to Mike Keane's charity hockey event and Mark Scheifele's golf tournament.

With such a closely tied business relationship (and also personally knowing players in this) I firmly believe there is no way that the Ice ownership group moves into Winnipeg without not only the approval but blessing of True North. What does this mean?

Either the Jets believe that WHL will not erode their Moose fan base, or, (far more likely) the Jets were already planning on moving the team somewhere else. Why?

• The Moose could draw better elsewhere. Any increase in tickets and merch sales will likely offset any additional costs of having the team away from the parent club.
• This opens up 40 days/ nights for BellMTS to host other events, which is money that the team is not making now.

I'd bet that TN was already planning on moving the Moose before this materialized. Remember, the Moose being here was supposed to be temporary.
Though I believe the Ice ownership really wanted and tried to make it work in Cranbrook - I'm sure knowing them they had a plan B worked out from the beginning. I also know the WHL understood where the owners were coming from and the potential to move to a major city must have been enticing to them as well.

Something else that seems to be getting glossed over - BMTSP is a 15k seat facility. 40+ dates averaging about 5k attendance is woefully under-utilizing that facility on those dates. It isn't like the Moose were using the facility to its best advantage for those dates.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think the Moose are here to stay, unless WHL brings in much larger numbers in Winnipeg.

The only good place for our AHL team (or any future AHL team, per say Ottawa even) would be Thunder Bay. I wanted Ottawa to put their AHL team in St. John's. Thunder Bay is best suited for AHL/ECHL considering it'd be hard to put an OHL team there because of the distance from the nearest OHL city. They could support pro hockey and deserve it, but first they need a new arena.

TB needs an arena, better proximity to more AHL cities and better transportation. It is kind of an isolated place.

Both Regina and Saskatoon look good in some ways but I don't know if they could support both AHL and WHL. AFAIK both cities are happy with the WHL. And they are a long way from most AHL cities. Not sure how big a factor that is.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'd much rather see Saskatoon get an NHL team, I don't think they're cut out of AHL, more WHL if anything. I imagine an AHL team would be there by now if they truly did want AHL, likely a team from Calgary, Edmonton or Winnipeg. Thunder Bay, like I said, is more ideal in the sense that it's heavily populated but isn't a great place to put OHL in the sense of transportation. It's easier to go from Regina to Saskatoon, etc.

I wish people would get over the idea that S'toon could support an NHL team. Winnipeg is easily the smallest NHL market with 750k. S'toon has a third of that. Not even remotely close to enough. If their population doubled overnight it still wouldn't be close.

 

[Gm0ney]

In terms of air connections to Winnipeg, Hamilton might be a good spot. Maybe the best spot with direct flights that doesn't currently have an AHL or NHL team. Not sure what happened to the Bulldogs (I know MTL moved them eventually to Laval or wherever but was that financial?). The Twin Cities would be good too - but if they could handle an AHL team, you think the Wild would move the, uh, other Wild there.

 

[cbcwpg]

'It's definitely more than a rumour': WHL fans in B.C. seem convinced team will move to Winnipeg

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

TB needs an arena, better proximity to more AHL cities and better transportation. It is kind of an isolated place.

Both Regina and Saskatoon look good in some ways but I don't know if they could support both AHL and WHL. AFAIK both cities are happy with the WHL. And they are a long way from most AHL cities. Not sure how big a factor that is.

I have said before in this thread that I am aware Thunder Bay doesn't have a suitable arena for major-pro sports. It's also why I said they should have an AHL team as opposed to OHL, because of how isolated it is. If they had that arena build our AHL team would be there as we speak.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I have said before in this thread that I am aware Thunder Bay doesn't have a suitable arena for major-pro sports. It's also why I said they should have an AHL team as opposed to OHL, because of how isolated it is. If they had that arena build our AHL team would be there as we speak.

Pretty sure I replied to this post yesterday.

My concern for TB goes beyond an arena. St John's has a very good facility but isolation has led to the AHL failing there more than once. Just not enough flights in and out and too far away from everyone else. Thunder Bay has similar problems. It isn't on an Island in the Atlantic so not quite as bad but it is still a handicap.

 

[GaryPoppins]

Problem with Selkirk is that half the population couldn’t rub two nickels together and no one is driiving from Winnipeg to Selkirk to watch WHL hockey! Why would they.

Well, people drive from Winnipeg to go see the Brandon Wheatkings games often so that is a soft theory at best.

 

[GaryPoppins]

I think Saskatoon would be ideal for an AHL team. You would be able to grow the Jets fan base there and provide the market with something they simply don't have. Building is ready and is a paltry 45 minute flight.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

I'd bet money that Steinbach would step up and give a WHL team league average support. There's a great Junior hockey culture across the towns in that area, and I have faith their support would make a team.

Become kinda the Jets of the WHL.

The problem is I don't see an advantage for an owner. If you buy a WHL team, and want to make not just pennies, but a lot of money, then you have to go to WPG. If there were a big money guy who believed in not only the Steinbach market, but the demand for a nice building to run other events, they could make it work.

Selkirk would not work for more than 1 year.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

I think Saskatoon would be ideal for an AHL team. You would be able to grow the Jets fan base there and provide the market with something they simply don't have. Building is ready and is a paltry 45 minute flight.

The problem is you can't win a fight for that market with the Blades.

 

[DowntownBooster]

Not sure why anyone wants to see the Moose relocate somewhere else like Saskatoon, Thunder Bay, Fargo, etc. The Moose bring $$$ to our local economy. Not only do we have more players living here which results in them using local services but you also have all the visiting teams coming into Winnipeg which further stimulates the local economy. Even though it's not on the scale of an NHL team it does benefit the economy of this city. If the Ice want to relocate to Winnipeg that is fine. The more the merrier. Winnipeg is a growing city, therefore, it should be able to accommodate hockey at the three levels (NHL, AHL & WHL) with a period of adjustment. Let's not chase the Moose out of town if TNSE is content with operating them here. There are more than enough event dates open at BellMTS Place to accommodate concerts and especially when many don't require the number of seats the building has and which can easily be held at the Burton Cummings Theatre instead. Let's keep the Moose in Winnipeg!

 

[cbcwpg]

As long as the benefits of having the Moose in Winnipeg out-way any potential financial down slide the team experiences because they have to compete with a WHL team... then TNSE will keep the Moose here.