Post-Game Talk: Wings win! Flyers @ Wings 10/12/13

[Wingdings]

I had to miss this game. Sounds like it was a good one. :/

 

[Frk It]

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20131012/SPORTS0103/310120085#ixzz2hcPSmoQn

Abby got moved to a new line, and that line didn't score. While his old line absolutely tore it up. Such a strange coincidence....

 

[BF3]

Babcock is high if he thought the 2nd line looked better. Weiss and Franzen have no chemistry.

Z-Dats-Bert
Abby-Weiss-Alfie
Franzen-Andersson-Cleary/Sammy
Tootoo-Any C-Miller

I don't like putting Abby on the 2nd line but its either him or Cleary/Sammy.

Ideally (well, not ideally, but ya know) we put Tatar on the 2nd line, move Abby to 3rd and Cleary/Sammy to 4th (sit Tootoo). But nooooooo.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

The 1st line is still good and the rest of the team still sucks? Yeah. Bertuzzi was good, but this is getting blown out of proportion, the problem with the Wings wasn't that Abdelkader was on the 1st line.

More like the rest of the team sucks, but the 1st line was even better and thus good enough to carry the team to victory.

Handicapping your best players to balance a lineup isn't always a recipe for success. Sometimes you have to simply give them the assets to be their best and go tell them to win a game for you. That's what happened and that's what's going to have to continue to happen until this lineup gets sorted out properly (if that ever happens.)

 

[RedWingzz]

Justin Abdelkader leads the entire NHL in hits. Cool.

 

[Roy S]

Abby got moved to a new line, and that line didn't score. While his old line absolutely tore it up. Such a strange coincidence....

Yeah, but not really at even strength. 3 of the goals were on the PP (where Abs never played with Z and D) and 1 was with an empty net (with Cleary replacing Bert on the ice for that).

 

[silkyjohnson50]

Yeah, but not really at even strength. 3 of the goals were on the PP (where Abs never played with Z and D) and 1 was with an empty net (with Cleary replacing Bert on the ice for that).

Zetterberg's 1st goal was at even strength..

Then you have to take into consideration that at least 2 of the PPs were the result of the 1st line creating them in the first place.

 

[Roy S]

Zetterberg's 1st goal was at even strength..

Then you have to take into consideration that at least 2 of the PPs were the result of the 1st line creating them in the first place.

True, but Z-D-Abs averaged a goal a game at even strength when they were together too. And Abdelkader drew 2 penalties last night, as well. He's been by far the best player on the team for that through 5 games. Plus, Z and D were out shot when they were on the ice at even strength. I didn't see much difference in the play of the first line at even strength. Bert replacing Franzen on the 1st PP unit was where the biggest difference showed up.

 

[Winger98]

True, but Z-D-Abs averaged a goal a game at even strength when they were together too. And Abdelkader drew 2 penalties last night, as well. He's been by far the best player on the team for that through 5 games. Plus, Z and D were out shot when they were on the ice at even strength. I didn't see much difference in the play of the first line at even strength. Bert replacing Franzen on the 1st PP unit was where the biggest difference showed up.

Maybe the powerplay was just too young. We needed someone nearly as old as Homer to truly take his spot on that powerplay unit. At least then we would know that in five years Franzen will be just about perfect for that spot.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

I'm sure you are absolutely fantastic your first couple of weeks at a new job in front of millions of people.

Well, realistically, you generally don't get to to suck at certain jobs while you learn.
Ozzie seems uncomfortable on camera. He's good with Ken and Mick in the booth though

 

[RedWingsNow*]

The 1st line is still good and the rest of the team still sucks? Yeah. Bertuzzi was good, but this is getting blown out of proportion, the problem with the Wings wasn't that Abdelkader was on the 1st line.

Nobody is blowing it out of proportion.

Yep, that was a problem.
One of several.
Now we need to demote JA another line or two where he belongs.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Zetterberg's 1st goal was at even strength..

Then you have to take into consideration that at least 2 of the PPs were the result of the 1st line creating them in the first place.

Yep.
The first line was dangerous most every shift tonight.
You had three guys capable of gaining the line with possession and three guys capable of making passes in the O zone.


That's huge. Especially when our D isn't the best at making transition passes. Datsyuk or Z can win the battle along the boards in their own end -- pass it... and then Bert and either Datsyuk or Z can start up with the other guy following up as the late man in.

When it's Abdelkader -- it makes it REALLY easy to key in on someone before they even gain the zone.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

True, but Z-D-Abs averaged a goal a game at even strength when they were together too. And Abdelkader drew 2 penalties last night, as well. He's been by far the best player on the team for that through 5 games. Plus, Z and D were out shot when they were on the ice at even strength. I didn't see much difference in the play of the first line at even strength. Bert replacing Franzen on the 1st PP unit was where the biggest difference showed up.

Not by any measure.

 

[Heaton]

Maybe the powerplay was just too young. We needed someone nearly as old as Homer to truly take his spot on that powerplay unit. At least then we would know that in five years Franzen will be just about perfect for that spot.

No kidding, we're 5 games in, things don't look great, but expecting this is the way its going to go the entire year is a little weird considering how much things change every year. Remember last year when we lost 6-0 to the Blues in game 1? Lots of things changed after that.

 

[Winger98]

No kidding, we're 5 games in, things don't look great, but expecting this is the way its going to go the entire year is a little weird considering how much things change every year. Remember last year when we lost 6-0 to the Blues in game 1? Lots of things changed after that.

We haven't won the cup in five years and it's making people antsy for their version of what's ailing us to be proven right.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

We haven't won the cup in five years and it's making people antsy for their version of what's ailing us to be proven right.

For years people on this board have ridiculed and been dismissive of most criticisms of this team.
For a few years, if you suggested that the Wings were going to battle to make the playoffs and then get eliminated early, you were branded a troll.
If you criticized Holland as being too loyal and generous to vets in the salary cap era, you were whining.
If you criticized Babcock's size-queen tendencies and said they were hurting our puck possession game, and ultimately, our offense and defense, you were a complainer.

So it's kind of insulting, Winger, to dismiss criticisms as being the product of being "antsy to be proven right."

You think Wings fans who suspected Cleary was coming back were antsy to be proven right? You think Wings fans who suspected Tatar would be benched and Nyquist in the AHL were antsy to be proven right/

THese criticisms were dismissed, too, before they became reality.

It's pretty funny these last couple seasons where Holland and Jimmy D were talking about how they were surprised to make the playoffs. Because if they announced that here before the season, they'd have been assaulted as complainers and trolls.

I guess it's just the nature of this board -- the board where the Red Wings are the team that ALMOST BEAT the CUP CHAMPS and the not team the snuck into the playoffs on the last day of the season.

It's really not hard to see difficult years coming in the Red Wings' future, especially as Datsyuk and Zetterberg age.

Instead of ripping people who say this, we could have discussions and debates about ways to avert the demise of the team.

 

[Flowah]

Instead of ripping people who say this, we could have discussions and debates about ways to avert the demise of the team.

And then shake our collective heads because none of us are Ken Holland, Mike Babcock, or anyone they might listen to.

Though I suppose if the fandom gets disappointed enough, it might force a change. I don't see that happening though.

 

[Winger98]

For years people on this board have ridiculed and been dismissive of most criticisms of this team.
For a few years, if you suggested that the Wings were going to battle to make the playoffs and then get eliminated early, you were branded a troll.
If you criticized Holland as being too loyal and generous to vets in the salary cap era, you were whining.
If you criticized Babcock's size-queen tendencies and said they were hurting our puck possession game, and ultimately, our offense and defense, you were a complainer.

So it's kind of insulting, Winger, to dismiss criticisms as being the product of being "antsy to be proven right."

You think Wings fans who suspected Cleary was coming back were antsy to be proven right? You think Wings fans who suspected Tatar would be benched and Nyquist in the AHL were antsy to be proven right/

THese criticisms were dismissed, too, before they became reality.

It's pretty funny these last couple seasons where Holland and Jimmy D were talking about how they were surprised to make the playoffs. Because if they announced that here before the season, they'd have been assaulted as complainers and trolls.

I guess it's just the nature of this board -- the board where the Red Wings are the team that ALMOST BEAT the CUP CHAMPS and the not team the snuck into the playoffs on the last day of the season.

It's really not hard to see difficult years coming in the Red Wings' future, especially as Datsyuk and Zetterberg age.

Instead of ripping people who say this, we could have discussions and debates about ways to avert the demise of the team.

the prevailing sentiment on this board, for the past several years, has been that we're not contenders. If you want to gripe about fans enjoying an unexpected run in the playoffs last year, well, that's your choice.

 

[Heaton]

I also don't think it's constructive to make comments like Holland or Babcock are idiots and have threads flooded with snarky and sarcastic comments. If you want constructive debates, those aren't constructive comments. The same is true for those who make dismissive comments about people being just fans not being as smart as Babcock/Holland, neither lead to anything good.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

I also don't think it's constructive to make comments like Holland or Babcock are idiots and have threads flooded with snarky and sarcastic comments. If you want constructive debates, those aren't constructive comments. The same is true for those who make dismissive comments about people being just fans not being as smart as Babcock/Holland, neither lead to anything good.

Yeah, well, realistically, there are no constructive conversations.
But there can be interesting conversations.

Babcock is an idiot. Yeah, that's pretty lowbrow.

But so is "Datsyuk is awesome!" or "Zetterberg Rules!"

These are natural reactions.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

the prevailing sentiment on this board, for the past several years, has been that we're not contenders. If you want to gripe about fans enjoying an unexpected run in the playoffs last year, well, that's your choice.

What the hell?
Most people -- including the critics -- had us making the playoffs and losing in round 1.
We barely made the playoffs. We barely won in round 1. We barely lost in round II.

I'm sorry you view truthtelling and cleareyed analysis as "griping."

But that's your choice.

 

[Roy S]

Not by any measure.

At drawing penalties he has been. That's not really debatable since its black and white.

 

[Soft Rock Renegade]

I just used the same options as last time, didn't feel like typing out new ones. But like Facebook, the vote isn't official if you don't actually vote on the poll, right?

any way we can just have the whole roster in alphabetical order as a default? i find even my own votes are skewed by who is at the top

 

[Johnz96*]

Voted Dats, Z, Kronwall and Howard because they all deserve it.

I went Dats, Z and Kronner. I didn't know you could vote for 4 or I would have voted for Howard as well.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Yeah, well, realistically, there are no constructive conversations.
But there can be interesting conversations.

Babcock is an idiot. Yeah, that's pretty lowbrow.

But so is "Datsyuk is awesome!" or "Zetterberg Rules!"

These are natural reactions.

Interesting, have never ever seen you criticize Datsyuk even for a second, even when he is completely disappointing for the entire Chicago series he gets a free pass.

Lets face it you're not exactly different than anybody else, we all have our favorites and least favorites.