TSN: Wings willing to make Babcock highest paid coach in the league

[Fugu]

Does anyone know how much the GM's make?

This basically said that most GMs make more than coaches, but no specific numbers:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-the-value-of-young-stud-defencemen/

The NHL does not have too many situations (if any) where the coach makes more than the GM.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I would be very surprised if Coach Q doesn't make more than Stan Bowman though... I could be dead wrong though.

I have never been a huge fan of Coach Q either, would be a classic example of the players matter so much more argument. We constantly dummied the guy in St. Louis and Colorado. Almost got bounced with a decent talent edge when the Blackhawks and Wings last met in the post-season. Yet he is the toast of the town in a lot of NHL coaching talk at times.

We will see, it is a piece of the puzzle but I think their are a lot of guys that could win with certain teams, Babcock won with probably the best team in the NHL post-lockout. Certainly he was a great ingredient to that group getting them to play harder, but honestly from 07-09 coming out with one cup with those rosters is to be expected, it isn't an outlandish defeat. I have honestly been most impressed with Babcock over the last two seasons than I was earlier in his tenure, it is a part of the reason I have softened on demands for a new coach, but once again we don't need to sit on pins and needles in fear if he decides to take his talents elsewhere.

 

[Frk It]

I would be very surprised if Coach Q doesn't make more than Stan Bowman though... I could be dead wrong though.

I have never been a huge fan of Coach Q either, would be a classic example of the players matter so much more argument. We constantly dummied the guy in St. Louis and Colorado. Almost got bounced with a decent talent edge when the Blackhawks and Wings last met in the post-season. Yet he is the toast of the town in a lot of NHL coaching talk at times.

We will see, it is a piece of the puzzle but I think their are a lot of guys that could win with certain teams, Babcock won with probably the best team in the NHL post-lockout. Certainly he was a great ingredient to that group getting them to play harder, but honestly from 07-09 coming out with one cup with those rosters is to be expected, it isn't an outlandish defeat. I have honestly been most impressed with Babcock over the last two seasons than I was earlier in his tenure, it is a part of the reason I have softened on demands for a new coach, but once again we don't need to sit on pins and needles in fear if he decides to take his talents elsewhere.

You have a similar feeling about coaches, as I do goalies

 

[Frk It]

This basically said that most GMs make more than coaches, but no specific numbers:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-the-value-of-young-stud-defencemen/

Thanks. I only asked because I couldn't find anything myself. (Regarding GM salaries)

 

[Fugu]

^^

I agree with the last two years being the more impressive for me. He got off to a rocky start, adjusted to the puck possession system, then started straying from it in 2009. Once we got more of the kids worked in on the team (even if it wasn't by choice), things started looking better, fresher (well, except the PP issues).

 

[Dynheart]

It doesn't sound like money is the sticking point, though. Or are you saying to cave to whatever his demands are?

I'm sure the man want's to get paid.

It wouldn't surprise me if Holland isn't signing him, and this next contract would have been a "prove me" contract.

It would explain why Babcock looks determined as all get out this season. I haven't seen this guy so into his coaching in a LOONG time. Could be the kids. Could be motivation to show Holland up: "You're the dummy for not signing me yet".

Whatever the case may be between those two, it's going to come down to the almighty dollar. Pay him. Keep him. He's clicking with the newish roster/coaches. Why let him go just to start that over next season...AND have the players learning a new system (coaches too). It would be a train wreck. A a train wreck for no reason at all, as Babcock is getting it done.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I'm sure the man want's to get paid.

It wouldn't surprise me if Holland isn't signing him, and this next contract would have been a "prove me" contract.

It would explain why Babcock looks determined as all get out this season. I haven't seen this guy so into his coaching in a LOONG time. Could be the kids. Could be motivation to show Holland up: "You're the dummy for not signing me yet".

Whatever the case may be between those two, it's going to come down to the almighty dollar. Pay him. Keep him. He's clicking with the newish roster/coaches. Why let him go just to start that over next season...AND have the players learning a new system (coaches too). It would be a train wreck. A a train wreck for no reason at all, as Babcock is getting it done.

Not sure what you are talking about. They have offered him a contract, the have had good faith talks. The believed replacement if Babcock bolts actually already plays the system and has coached all the players either as an assistant or head coach.

Babcock looks so determined because he is an intense guy that likes to win. He always looks like this contract or not. He is the hold up here and the way they are playing has to be putting tremendous pressure on him to put pen to paper as honestly what realistic opening is going to be better than the Wings at the end of this season?

 

[Dynheart]

Not sure what you are talking about. They have offered him a contract, the have had good faith talks. The believed replacement if Babcock bolts actually already plays the system and has coached all the players either as an assistant or head coach.

Babcock looks so determined because he is an intense guy that likes to win. He always looks like this contract or not. He is the hold up here and the way they are playing has to be putting tremendous pressure on him to put pen to paper as honestly what realistic opening is going to be better than the Wings at the end of this season?

So all of those "Babcock going to the Pens/Toronto" rumors...we are going to put some validity in those? We never knew for sure if he was leaving or not.

My understanding is that all of this stuff we were getting in the off season/beginning of the season was a bunch of he said she said mumbo jumbo just to get the rumor mill going...?

Do we even know what these "good faith" conversations were about? There has to be a reason why he flat out denied Holland (probably where all of the rumors came from). Babcock still sounds like he wants to coach here...or does he?

What ever the case may be. Just sign the guy. If he doesn't want to be signed we'll find out soon enough.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

So all of those "Babcock going to the Pens/Toronto" rumors...we are going to put some validity in those? We never knew for sure if he was leaving or not.

My understanding is that all of this stuff we were getting in the off season/beginning of the season was a bunch of he said she said mumbo jumbo just to get the rumor mill going...?

Do we even know what these "good faith" conversations were about? There has to be a reason why he flat out denied Holland (probably where all of the rumors came from). Babcock still sounds like he wants to coach here...or does he?

What ever the case may be. Just sign the guy. If he doesn't want to be signed we'll find out soon enough.

A significant difference in this post and the Holland had a show me line of thinking.

The Wings aren't going to lose out by getting cheap on him or because they dislike him. Though as suggested over and over in this thread in my opinion they shouldn't kowtow to his every demand necessarily either.

 

[Dynheart]

A significant difference in this post and the Holland had a show me line of thinking.

The Wings aren't going to lose out by getting cheap on him or because they dislike him. Though as suggested over and over in this thread in my opinion they shouldn't kowtow to his every demand necessarily either.

That first post was just me throwing ideas out. It wasn't anything definitive.

There has to be a reason as to why. If it was a simple answer, we would know already.

 

[Claypool]

Not sure what you are talking about. They have offered him a contract, the have had good faith talks. The believed replacement if Babcock bolts actually already plays the system and has coached all the players either as an assistant or head coach.

Babcock looks so determined because he is an intense guy that likes to win. He always looks like this contract or not. He is the hold up here and the way they are playing has to be putting tremendous pressure on him to put pen to paper as honestly what realistic opening is going to be better than the Wings at the end of this season?

Babcock also went to a few Michigan games to see Larkin play. Now, obviously its not that far out of the way for him to do, but if he knew he wasn't coming back next season I don't see why he'd spend his time looking at prospects he'll never coach.

 

[icKx]

Babcock built a reputation on the back of J.S. Giguere carrying a mediocre team to the Finals, inherited the most complete post-lockout team, won a Cup, was beat in 2009 by a currently unemployed coach, and was bounced from the playoffs two years in a row by a team coached by a former assistant.

I'm not saying he's a bad coach but his record isn't unimpeachable.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Babcock built a reputation on the back of J.S. Giguere carrying a mediocre team to the Finals, inherited the most complete post-lockout team, won a Cup, was beat in 2009 by a currently unemployed coach, and was bounced from the playoffs two years in a row by a team coached by a former assistant.

I'm not saying he's a bad coach but his record isn't unimpeachable.

I mean, by the same virtue, Scotty Bowman almost exclusively coached elite teams. The 70's Habs, early 90's Penguins, and late 90's Red Wings are among the best ever. But there was a period, after his Buffalo stint, where all he did was work on HNIC. The question is: How much does a coach impact a great team, and vice versa. Is there a correlation? Does it lead to causation? I'm inclined Babcock is the best coach in the league regardless.

Additionally, the 2009 Red Wings were extremely injured in the finals. Lidstrom had been speared in the groin by Kane in the previous round, Hossa had a bad shoulder, Datsyuk was in and out. This left Zetterberg to play against Crosby and Malkin, the latter of which tore us up.

 

[Claypool]

Babcock built a reputation on the back of J.S. Giguere carrying a mediocre team to the Finals, inherited the most complete post-lockout team, won a Cup, was beat in 2009 by a currently unemployed coach, and was bounced from the playoffs two years in a row by a team coached by a former assistant.

I'm not saying he's a bad coach but his record isn't unimpeachable.

Any coach that wins the Cup you can say he was carried by his team.

 

[icKx]

I mean, by the same virtue, Scotty Bowman almost exclusively coached elite teams. The 70's Habs, early 90's Penguins, and late 90's Red Wings are among the best ever. But there was a period, after his Buffalo stint, where all he did was work on HNIC. The question is: How much does a coach impact a great team, and vice versa. Is there a correlation? Does it lead to causation? I'm inclined Babcock is the best coach in the league regardless.

Additionally, the 2009 Red Wings were extremely injured in the finals. Lidstrom had been speared in the groin by Kane in the previous round, Hossa had a bad shoulder, Datsyuk was in and out. This left Zetterberg to play against Crosby and Malkin, the latter of which tore us up.

Sharp was the one that speared Lids. That *******.

I just don't see Babcock as having a major influence on the 2009 team. Supremely talented; wildly inconsistent. Played 40 minutes on a good night. Fortunately they could pull it off.

Any coach that wins the Cup you can say he was carried by his team.

Which is why I take the same stance that TZE does: if Babs does leave we'll be OK.

 

[StNickFan]

I agree with those who say if Babs does leave we will be okay with blash. That is a backup plan for me though. Babs is showing this year that he can coach with a younger roster which was doubted before. To me if Babs wants money then you pay the man because it doesn't make sense to me to risk a coaching change if things are already working.
Ultimately, I don't think this is Hollands choice though. Babs seems to like being in the limelight right now with all this speculation surrounding him. Who wouldn't like hearing your the best coach every time you hear a rumor about yourself?

 

[Winger98]

I'm sure the man want's to get paid.

It wouldn't surprise me if Holland isn't signing him, and this next contract would have been a "prove me" contract.

It would explain why Babcock looks determined as all get out this season. I haven't seen this guy so into his coaching in a LOONG time. Could be the kids. Could be motivation to show Holland up: "You're the dummy for not signing me yet".

Whatever the case may be between those two, it's going to come down to the almighty dollar. Pay him. Keep him. He's clicking with the newish roster/coaches. Why let him go just to start that over next season...AND have the players learning a new system (coaches too). It would be a train wreck. A a train wreck for no reason at all, as Babcock is getting it done.

I don't doubt Babcock wants his payday, but I don't think money is the main hurdle. Just a few days ago it was rumored the Wings were willing to make him the highest paid coach in the league, which would probably be $3+ million a season. And how often have the Wings been unwilling to pay a guy they think highly of? Especially one who is already associated with the organization?

My read has been that Babcock not only wants the cash, but more of a say in how the roster is put together. Maybe that means more of a say in who we sign, but I think it's in who he keeps out of camp. That's where we've seen the most consistent friction the past few years, where Babcock has wanted to keep someone out of camp, but Holland has said no and sent a kid back to GR instead.

I'm thinking Babcock is pushing for that, Holland is balking, and that's where we're seeing this, "well, maybe it'll be better if I just sign one year deals" bit coming from the Babcock camp.

Personally, I wouldn't mind so much if Babcock had more of a say in who he kept out of camp. I would have no interest in this year to year business, though.

 

[Brandel*]

Read this ->

http://www.nicholsonhockey.com/wort...rowing-sentiment-babcock-stays-with-red-wings

 

[Datsyukian Deke]

Now that Paul MacLean is available, I wouldn't mind bringing him back in some sort of coaching capacity to be back with Babcock, given how well he did when he was here. Doubt it will happen, but ya never know.

 

[Frk It]

Now that Paul MacLean is available, I wouldn't mind bringing him back in some sort of coaching capacity to be back with Babcock, given how well he did when he was here. Doubt it will happen, but ya never know.

Don't see the need. Hiller is coaching 8th best PP in the league, and Granato is coaching 3rd best PK in the league.

Babcock also had a ton of good things about both, upon being hired.

 

[Frk It]

Read this ->

http://www.nicholsonhockey.com/wort...rowing-sentiment-babcock-stays-with-red-wings

Dreger shared an oppsoite opinion, lol

added 1:03pm, via Hope Smoke tweets,

Dreger "my sense is, if Babcock were going to agree to a contract in Det he would have done it by now."

Dreger "I know Det is willing to make him the NHL's highest paid coach"

Dreger "if $3 mill isn't enough than he [Babcock] is obviously looking at the open market"

 

[odin1981]

Wasn't the big deal according to a article a week or so ago that Babs wants single year contracts from hear on out and the wings are offering 3+ million but it is over a 4-5 contract?

That would make sense as to why he hasn't been signed to me. He wants his money but doesn't want to be tied down.

 

[Henkka]

More and more it looks like the only thing they were negotiating was term, not money. Babs will be re-signed after season, don't you guys worry.

Also, maybe he was ready to sign short-term (at this summer) before he sees how the young team would respond. It has been responding pretty damn well, so I could predict, if this season will end as positive way as it has started, at next summer he is ready also for a longer term.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Dreger shared an oppsoite opinion, lol

Unfortunately Darren Dreger has become an extension of the Leafs at times lately. The family connection makes it worse, but Babcock's potential availability to me lies at this notion. We will see, but Dreger has come down several pegs for me lately.

I think Lebrun and Custance will have the closest read on this. Of the national guys they seem to have the best pipeline in to Detroit, not surprising with Custance since he is Detroit based. In any event they seem to have a good read on the organization from several angles. McKenzie seems to have a direct line into Holland, Pierre a direct line into Babcock. Ward a direct line into the players. Dreger seems to have a direct line into nothing at all on this team.

I could see Detroit having the option to match a contract offer, I think at that point I would release him. They don't need to play games they have been the best team in the NHL for the last quarter century, it wasn't because the Wings don't know what there doing and were kowtowing to people.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Unfortunately Darren Dreger has become an extension of the Leafs at times lately. The family connection makes it worse, but Babcock's potential availability to me lies at this notion. We will see, but Dreger has come down several pegs for me lately.

I think Lebrun and Custance will have the closest read on this. Of the national guys they seem to have the best pipeline in to Detroit, not surprising with Custance since he is Detroit based. In any event they seem to have a good read on the organization from several angles. McKenzie seems to have a direct line into Holland, Pierre a direct line into Babcock. Ward a direct line into the players. Dreger seems to have a direct line into nothing at all on this team.

friedman is usually reliable. if it's not legit, he doesn't say it.

second to only bobby mac in my opinion.

i did find it interesting how he said how he leans on babs re-signing at the moment but before the season though there wasn't much of a chance.

i heard interviews from him last summer talking about this and he wasn't as blunt.