TSN: Wings willing to make Babcock highest paid coach in the league

[edmundbenz]

Just worried about a coach staying at one place too long? Really because last time I looked, you seem pretty worked up over this rumour/speculation. I dont see that it was so damaging to Wings that Scotty signed year to year.

If you ask me, it's pretty strange to be worrying about re-signing a coach who just won 500th game second fastest to scotty. How it will be so damaging to this organization? Common sense tells me average people can probably think of more reasons why it would be beneficial regardless.

The fact that you've rarely (if any) endorsed an idea of re-signing Babcock tells me you are using this year-year rumour as a chance to further your agenda of getting another coach at any cost.

If Babcock leaves then I guess Tony Granato or Blashill will become the next HC.

 

[Actual Thought*]

I worry about coaches staying in one place too long. I am okay with re-signing him, but he has to sign with some term if that is the case. We should not be doing this every year.

I do make no secret of the fact in any of the sports that having a great GM is more important than having a great coach in my opinion. It is great to have both, but we will see how this plays out.

It isn't just Smith on the PP....

I am not wiling to endorse the idea of one year pacts. Quite frankly if Babcock is looking at this team right now and thinks he has a better place going forward, good luck to him he is wrong barring Sutter retiring and him getting the LA job.

At some point we need to start talking about that. The Wings have the best available job without a coach tied down for next season. That is leverage as well when we talk about this situation.

I am not sure what you are in favor of.

 

[Yemack]

If Babcock leaves then I guess Tony Granato or Blashill will become the next HC.

maybe. most seem to agree that Blashill will take over but I dont think it hurts to look around.

 

[Fugu]

He said he spoke to Scotty and Mr Bowman said he liked it when he was going year to year. He said and I am paraphrasing here "It gives both parties a chance to look back on the year and assess whether or not things are working". He sort of put it like there is nothing wrong with an annual review. It seemed to work out for Scotty and he made more money with the Wings than he had ever seen before.

A very close friend of mine is very close to Scotty's son Bob. Apparently Scotty has amazing things to say about working for the Wings. The only reason he left was because Stan was having health issues and they wanted to be closer.

Yes, I remember this from the time that Scotty left. Stan had cancer, iirc, and Scotty also wanted to work with him once he became the GM in Chicago. That's very understandable. I know Scotty would have stayed put otherwise. He loved his role here.

Of course, Scotty was much, much older. He may have wanted the year to year because he simply may not have been sure how much longer he'd want to keep working. Babs is a much younger man right now.

habs would be better place going forward (barring the media hell). they are now about as good team with therrien holding them back.

There is the media circus up there, and at least the expectation from some corners that the coach should be French Canadian. Babs is a McGill man, so not sure if that would buy him points. Does he speak French?

 

[Fugu]

I don't think that is a positive at all. I also question giving him a lot more power in terms of personnel. Now the ultimate blame goes to Holland, but Babcock requested Bert, Sammy and the continuation of Cleary. Babcock has been stunned by some of the young players despite constant contact with Blashill and overwhelmingly positive reviews out of our scouts, Blash and Holland.

Then there is the idea that this annual idea that Bowman liked so much will take place in a much different climate. The Wings could go short deals with their players, they were the premiere destination at the time paying the highest salary. We need players to commit right now, any guy that wants to commit has to question when this annual idea of negotiation will fall through.

I think he will get some more input and some title even if it is a faux title to reflect he has more say, but I am not sure that is the greatest thing. He has to sign for at least three years for me or I think we should walk away.

I agree. He's never been a puck possession system proponent, and had to be cajoled (goaded) into it by Bowman and Holland when he first got here. Now, if he convinced Holland that they don't have the skill to play that system as well, and/or, that a hybrid is necessary in today's NHL, I definitely think he's been the one pushing for "big bodies" (Bert, E, Franzen) and scrappy, net crashing guys (Cleary, Sammy, Abby). This fits his MO a lot more than Holland's.

How much can he really blame Holland for being unable to get that RHD? I don't think it's for a lack of trying. Honestly think that has more to do with who was available and that other teams wanted to spend more than the Wings could (would?). Hard to know, but if it's true that this is no longer a desirable UFA landing, well, we have different problems then.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Just give Babcock what he wants Ken Holland, Please make it happen soon.

 

[Heaton]

i'm not sure if that is correct.. he might not have as much as power as he wants but he definitely has a say in who red wings acquire.

Interesting, considering we have literally nothing on the team that he's said he's wanted (RHD) I don't think he has much of a say.

 

[InjuredChoker]

There is the media circus up there, and at least the expectation from some corners that the coach should be French Canadian. Babs is a McGill man, so not sure if that would buy him points. Does he speak French?

Did he (Babcock) learn any French? “Very little … not enough to coach the Habs,†he said.

one would think that they'd make an exception for a coach like babcock but i'm not in charge.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Interesting, considering we have literally nothing on the team that he's said he's wanted (RHD) I don't think he has much of a say.

holland also wants RHD. he talks about getting top 4 RHD who can play on the power play all the time.

weiss seemed like babcock guy based on his comments and what sepster (sp?) has said. flip and hudler were let walk or walked. cleary re-signed back in 2013.

holland obviously has a bigger say and babcock might want larger role in management operations but i do think holland listens to him. sometimes too much (cleary 2013).

 

[Heaton]

holland also wants RHD. he talks about getting top 4 RHD who can play on the power play all the time.

weiss seemed like babcock guy based on his comments and what sepster (sp?) has said. flip and hudler were let walk or walked. cleary re-signed back in 2013.

holland obviously has a bigger say and babcock might want larger role in management operations but i do think holland listens to him. sometimes too much (cleary 2013).

The bottom line is, since 2009 there haven't been any upgrades brought to the roster. If I'm Babcock, I want to ensure that I'm coaching a team that is actively trying to make the roster better every year.

 

[Henkka]

The bottom line is, since 2009 there haven't been any upgrades brought to the roster. If I'm Babcock, I want to ensure that I'm coaching a team that is actively trying to make the roster better every year.

Weird if home-grown and developed kids aren't seen as any kind of upgrades.

 

[Frk It]

Weird if home-grown and developed kids aren't seen as any kind of upgrades.

Gained some forward depth the last few years (Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, Jurco)

But lost considerable defensive depth (Lidstrom, Raffy, Stuart)

So hard to say overall that it has been an "upgrade" when you look at the big picture.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I am not sure what you are in favor of.

I don't think a guy staying in one area for 10+ years is great necessarily. However, if they are going with Babcock the bare minimum I would sign up for is three seasons. It is really that simple, he leaves we get a new voice, new ideas and the ability for the players to wipe the slate clean. If he is staying I am not doing this every year if I am the Wings. You accept at least a three year deal or get somebody else to give you that kind of setup. The Wings should not be doing that.

 

[Frk It]

I don't think a guy staying in one area for 10+ years is great. However if they are going with Babcock the bare minimum I would sign up for is three seasons. It is really that simple, he leaves we get a new voice, new ideas and the ability for the players to wipe the slate clean. If he is staying I am not doing this every year if I am the Wings. You accept at least a three year deal or get somebody else to give you that kind of setup. The Wings should not be doing that.

Remember reading the reason a lot of free agents were reluctant to come here was because of the uncertainty with Babcock's future. So if we kept doing 1 year deals, we would probably have to face that every summer.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Just worried about a coach staying at one place too long? Really because last time I looked, you seem pretty worked up over this rumour/speculation. I dont see that it was so damaging to Wings that Scotty signed year to year.

If you ask me, it's pretty strange to be worrying about re-signing a coach who just won 500th game second fastest to scotty. How it will be so damaging to this organization? Common sense tells me average people can probably think of more reasons why it would be beneficial regardless.

The fact that you've rarely (if any) endorsed an idea of re-signing Babcock tells me you are using this year-year rumour as a chance to further your agenda of getting another coach at any cost.

Agenda?

I have said for a while now if they want to re-sign him fine, but he needs to commit to term then.

Listen I don't really believe a huge amount in coaching in general across all sports. They make an impact on the game but not a drastic one in my opinion.

I think we will be fine with Blashill as well. I don't worship at the alter of Babcock.

By the way should McLellan be available and Babcock leaves I am not opposed to him either. He would have some familiarity with the team and system for those worried about it, but would have his own take on the players as a bench boss and he would likely control the room differently in that role.

The Wings don't have to accept some crummy arrangement because they are scared of losing Mike Babcock this is a terrific job with terrific organizational strength. They will be fine even if Saint Babcock moves on.

 

[Yemack]

Agenda?

I have said for a while now if they want to re-sign him fine, but he needs to commit to term then.

Listen I don't really believe a huge amount in coaching in general across all sports. They make an impact on the game but not a drastic one in my opinion.

I think we will be fine with Blashill as well. I don't worship at the alter of Babcock.

By the way should McLellan be available and Babcock leaves I am not opposed to him either. He would have some familiarity with the team and system for those worried about it, but would have his own take on the players as a bench boss and he would likely control the room differently in that role.

The Wings don't have to accept some crummy arrangement because they are scared of losing Mike Babcock this is a terrific job with terrific organizational strength. They will be fine even if Saint Babcock moves on.

I dont agree with you opinions on some levels but points well taken.

As far as I'm concerned, it's going to be taken care one way or the other. Of coures, I believe Babcock is right man for the job espeically because I like the program he's been selling (more so than his general coaching ability) but that doesn't mean I wish to get dragged down in this gossip like dicussion of Babcock contract negotiation.

Hopefully you didnt take offence to what I said.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I dont agree with you opinions on some levels but points well taken.

As far as I'm concerned, it's going to be taken care one way or the other. Of coures, I believe Babcock is right man for the job espeically because I like the program he's been selling (more so than his general coaching ability) but that doesn't mean I wish to get dragged down in this gossip like dicussion of Babcock contract negotiation.

Hopefully you didnt take offence to what I said.

Not offended, it just isn't an agenda... I like Mike Babcock as a coach, I thought he infused exactly what we needed when he first came. I am not sure that voice is what will carry the next generation forward. I don't think his loss is going to change the Red Wings culture of winning however.

If he is to stay, I want him locked in long-term. If he was going to leave, him doing so when McLellan and Blashill should be available to the organization is not the worst thing for us either. I just don't want to play this game every year for a guy with one cup. Mike Babcock is not Scotty Bowman, he doesn't have the health issues Scotty did or the Cups with three separate organizations when he started asking for that scenario. I pass easily on that.

Like Frk It pointed out I don't think it is good in Free agency. We will see though, I will not be bummed out if he comes back, I am just not going to be leading the pity party if Mike Babcock makes the mistake of thinking the grass is greener elsewhere. None of those situations is likely to be available to him.

We are entitled to opinions, mine is that Mike Babcock's departure from the Red Wings would not be the death blow it is rumored to be. Honestly it wouldn't be one of the five most significantly damaging things to happen during this 20+ year run.

 

[Actual Thought*]

I don't think a guy staying in one area for 10+ years is great necessarily. However, if they are going with Babcock the bare minimum I would sign up for is three seasons. It is really that simple, he leaves we get a new voice, new ideas and the ability for the players to wipe the slate clean. If he is staying I am not doing this every year if I am the Wings. You accept at least a three year deal or get somebody else to give you that kind of setup. The Wings should not be doing that.

And why exactly would we want a new voice? Maybe he and the Wings are comfortable with each other. I don't think any of the speculation here makes any sense. I expect Babs to stay here for a long time and I will be happy to have him. I like it when the team wins.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Not offended, it just isn't an agenda... I like Mike Babcock as a coach, I thought he infused exactly what we needed when he first came. I am not sure that voice is what will carry the next generation forward. I don't think his loss is going to change the Red Wings culture of winning however.

If he is to stay, I want him locked in long-term. If he was going to leave, him doing so when McLellan and Blashill should be available to the organization is not the worst thing for us either. I just don't want to play this game every year for a guy with one cup. Mike Babcock is not Scotty Bowman, he doesn't have the health issues Scotty did or the Cups with three separate organizations when he started asking for that scenario. I pass easily on that.

Like Frk It pointed out I don't think it is good in Free agency. We will see though, I will not be bummed out if he comes back, I am just not going to be leading the pity party if Mike Babcock makes the mistake of thinking the grass is greener elsewhere. None of those situations is likely to be available to him.

We are entitled to opinions, mine is that Mike Babcock's departure from the Red Wings would not be the death blow it is rumored to be. Honestly it wouldn't be one of the five most significantly damaging things to happen during this 20+ year run.

This is a parity league. Coach is one place where you can gain a real advantage. I think you seriously underestimate Babs and the importance of coaching in general. He is as close to Scotty Bowman as any active coach.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

This is a parity league. Coach is one place where you can gain a real advantage. I think you seriously underestimate Babs and the importance of coaching in general. He is as close to Scotty Bowman as any active coach.

Babs has one cup in what 13 years as a head coach in this league? He has had some very talented teams to, so yes that is a low number given how people go on about him.

To put him in with Bowman isn't a great idea.

Heck he was completely out coached by his old assistant McLellan twice in a row in money time.

A lot of Babcock's #1 status comes from winning Golds with Canada, something I don't think is a spectacular feat and couldn't care one iota about in terms of the Wings and what we will compensate him with in terms of price and power for doing that. I understand it is the price of package, but who Babcock reminds me most of is Mike Keenan. Keenan was a very good coach (still is in the KHL) and certainly Babcock has gained more flexibility that Iron Mike though I would be curious also to see what he does if he doesn't have a Ken Holland, Jim Devellano and Mike Ilitch around.

With all this said a couple years back I was ready to move on from Babcock entirely. I have really enjoyed his coaching of the kids the last two years and have softened that stance. However, I am not going to cower in the corner and be worried about what happens if he leaves. Holland is a fabulous evaluator of talent, we should get a good guy in place and we have a lot of talent moving forward. Thanks for your service, best of luck and good luck beating us in the future because in all likelihood you just went to a worse place. That is my position.

 

[Winger98]

Not offended, it just isn't an agenda... I like Mike Babcock as a coach, I thought he infused exactly what we needed when he first came. I am not sure that voice is what will carry the next generation forward. I don't think his loss is going to change the Red Wings culture of winning however.

If he is to stay, I want him locked in long-term. If he was going to leave, him doing so when McLellan and Blashill should be available to the organization is not the worst thing for us either. I just don't want to play this game every year for a guy with one cup. Mike Babcock is not Scotty Bowman, he doesn't have the health issues Scotty did or the Cups with three separate organizations when he started asking for that scenario. I pass easily on that.

Like Frk It pointed out I don't think it is good in Free agency. We will see though, I will not be bummed out if he comes back, I am just not going to be leading the pity party if Mike Babcock makes the mistake of thinking the grass is greener elsewhere. None of those situations is likely to be available to him.

We are entitled to opinions, mine is that Mike Babcock's departure from the Red Wings would not be the death blow it is rumored to be. Honestly it wouldn't be one of the five most significantly damaging things to happen during this 20+ year run.

We also don't have the same team Bowman was going year to year with. We had a thoroughly vet team that would largely pave the road for any coach who took them over. With the number of kids we're working into the lineup right now, stability behind the bench would be a bit more important to me.

 

[PelagicJoe]

What does Holland make? I know the big question was will Babcock make more than Holland.

Do head coaches ever make more than GMs?

 

[Dynheart]

I say don't break what isn't broken.

Babcock got here with a high powered team and took that team to a conference final (hot goaltender). A cup. And another cup final, which he almost won.

That was it. That's the only cup team Holland iced for him.

He's managed to keep the team competitive. A lot of roster changes. A lot of injuries. And through all of that BS, they broke an NHL record (home wins).

This is the closest he's had to a cup team since he got here (since 07-09). Let's see what he can do with it. Looks like whatever he's doing with the players and coaches...it's working. I say pay the man what he wants, and bring him back next season with a better defense. A better offense. A more experienced team. He'll work magic behind that bench.

 

[Frk It]

Do head coaches ever make more than GMs?

Does anyone know how much the GM's make?

 

[Winger98]

I say don't break what isn't broken.

Babcock got here with a high powered team and took that team to a conference final (hot goaltender). A cup. And another cup final, which he almost won.

That was it. That's the only cup team Holland iced for him.

He's managed to keep the team competitive. A lot of roster changes. A lot of injuries. And through all of that BS, they broke an NHL record (home wins).

This is the closest he's had to a cup team since he got here (since 07-09). Let's see what he can do with it. Looks like whatever he's doing with the players and coaches...it's working. I say pay the man what he wants, and bring him back next season with a better defense. A better offense. A more experienced team. He'll work magic behind that bench.

It doesn't sound like money is the sticking point, though. Or are you saying to cave to whatever his demands are?