Friedman: Wings wants a first round pick for Jimmy Howard

[WingsMJN2965]

If I'm giving up a First, I want proven, not good at the moment.

Yes, his .916 career SV% proves he's way better than Howard at .915%.

When you're done being ridiculous let me know.

 

[GoldenSeal]

Yes, his .916 career SV% proves he's way better than Howard at .915%.

When you're done being ridiculous let me know.

I don't see any Stanley Cups, no Conn Smythes or even a Jennings Trophy listed with Howard. Refresh my memory with how far into the playoffs he's been again?

If I'm picking up a netminder and giving up a First, they need pedigree who can also help groom the kids into the role.

Whose being ridiculous now?

 

[GoldenSeal]

Packaged with another player, I can see them getting a First. Imo, Howard alone, at best, gets you a conditional second at best and that's to a very desperate team.

 

[deaderhead28]

I don't see any Stanley Cups, no Conn Smythes or even a Jennings Trophy listed with Howard. Refresh my memory with how far into the playoffs he's been again?

If I'm picking up a netminder and giving up a First, they need pedigree who can also help groom the kids into the role.

Whose being ridiculous now?

Quick has two cups,two Jennings and a Conn Smythe.

 

[GoldenSeal]

Quick has two cups,two Jennings and a Conn Smythe.

Why yes... yes he does

 

[Isles72]

I like what someone said earlier ; just keep Howard unless blown away at the deadline . The JB/JH tandem and the handful of assorted vets is nice insulation for the team as they rebuild .

 

[PittsburghPens8771]

Had you kept Fleury you'd probably have gotten three in a row. Now he's backing up Casey DeSmith LOL.

Why are you looking for a confrontation when you don't know what you're talking about?

You can figure it out on your own... I'm sure it's going to take you a while

 

[Lampedampe]

I like what someone said earlier ; just keep Howard unless blown away at the deadline . The JB/JH tandem and the handful of assorted vets is nice insulation for the team as they rebuild .

That's probably why Holland is asking for such a high price, there were rumours about Holland wanting to re-sign Howard. So I doubt that Holland is actively pursuing a trade, but he'll definitely trade for the right price.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I don't see any Stanley Cups, no Conn Smythes or even a Jennings Trophy listed with Howard. Refresh my memory with how far into the playoffs he's been again?

If I'm picking up a netminder and giving up a First, they need pedigree who can also help groom the kids into the role.

Whose being ridiculous now?

This is a stupid argument. If I wanted a goalie to mentor any youth I have coming up... the LAST goalie I would want is Jonathan Quick. His playstyle is not one I want most goalies emulating. He plays a really athletic style which works for him because he's super agile. But most goalies would fail miserably under the Quick tutelage.

Also, individual trophies kinda mean jack **** about being a mentor. You're saying that if Howard happened to be up with the Wings two years earlier when they had a team capable of winning of the Cup he'd all of a sudden be a better mentor?

You can love Jonathan Quick. That's fine, he's a fantastic goaltender, but your points to "refute" trading a 1st for Howard are stupid. You don't want to trade a 1st for him because he has a papier-mache groin and sucks after injuring it? Ok, I get that. But team success is a ridiculously stupid metric on how to rank a goalie.

So many times in this league, a goal that goes in on a goalie has nothing at all to do with how the guy played it. As a goalie, you cut off the highest percentage chance of what is going to be done, because you can't block them all.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

I don't see any Stanley Cups, no Conn Smythes or even a Jennings Trophy listed with Howard. Refresh my memory with how far into the playoffs he's been again?

If I'm picking up a netminder and giving up a First, they need pedigree who can also help groom the kids into the role.

Whose being ridiculous now?

Oh... I didn't realize you wanted team awards to increase your goalie's value.

And yes, like it or not a Conn Smythe requires your team to be good enough to get you there. Would you also pay a higher price for JS Giguere in 2010?

 

[CraigsList]

The best the Flames could do is Gillies (I believe he’s a Detroit boy) plus a 3rd round pick.

 

[GoldenSeal]

This is a stupid argument. If I wanted a goalie to mentor any youth I have coming up... the LAST goalie I would want is Jonathan Quick. His playstyle is not one I want most goalies emulating. He plays a really athletic style which works for him because he's super agile. But most goalies would fail miserably under the Quick tutelage.

Also, individual trophies kinda mean jack **** about being a mentor. You're saying that if Howard happened to be up with the Wings two years earlier when they had a team capable of winning of the Cup he'd all of a sudden be a better mentor?

You can love Jonathan Quick. That's fine, he's a fantastic goaltender, but your points to "refute" trading a 1st for Howard are stupid. You don't want to trade a 1st for him because he has a papier-mache groin and sucks after injuring it? Ok, I get that. But team success is a ridiculously stupid metric on how to rank a goalie.

So many times in this league, a goal that goes in on a goalie has nothing at all to do with how the guy played it. As a goalie, you cut off the highest percentage chance of what is going to be done, because you can't block them all.

Still not getting a First for Howard

 

[GoldenSeal]

Oh... I didn't realize you wanted team awards to increase your goalie's value.

And yes, like it or not a Conn Smythe requires your team to be good enough to get you there. Would you also pay a higher price for JS Giguere in 2010?

Why when I can acquire Howard for a First while he's playing good... At the moment >.>

 

[FireBird71]

Why when I can acquire Howard for a First while he's playing good... At the moment >.>

Looks a hell of a lot better than Quick LMAO

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Still not getting a First for Howard

Did I say we would? Just saying that using "Quick has two Cups and a Conn Smythe" is a stupid argument as to why he is better in 2018 than Jimmy Howard.

And that it shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the position to want Jonathan Quick to be the one to mentor any young goalie you draft. I bet you think that Dominik Hasek would have been a fabulous mentor for your goalies and Alexei Kovalev for your skaters.

 

[FireBird71]

No one will take Quick’s Contract

 

[GoldenSeal]

Did I say we would? Just saying that using "Quick has two Cups and a Conn Smythe" is a stupid argument as to why he is better in 2018 than Jimmy Howard.

And that it shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the position to want Jonathan Quick to be the one to mentor any young goalie you draft. I bet you think that Dominik Hasek would have been a fabulous mentor for your goalies and Alexei Kovalev for your skaters.

Now you're putting words in my mouth! And you made me laugh too. Thank you for that. I can just imagine prospects flopping around the ice like fish and Hasek yelling "Be the Trout, BE THE TROUT!!"

Hell to the No on both of them as Coaches...jeez lol.

 

[marcmadsen]

I hardly think thats how that trade went down.

Im more than willing to believe mcphee threw those picks at him and holland agreed. You'd have to have a screw loose to ask for a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for tatar.... and you're saying he asked for more? Compare that to the Erik Karlsson trade and tell m which is more likely??

Guess we'll agree to disagree. If Mcphee just threw those picks at Holland, anyone's immediate reaction in a negotiation would be to start by asking for more. I'll grant you that if someone were to offer you something that you are shocked at the value, you may want to immediately accept. So, you may not ask for much more but if any GM gets an offer and immediately accepts without asking for more, in my opinion, isn't doing their job.

We can disagree on how much more Holland may have asked for but it's all speculation on our part anyways

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Why when I can acquire Howard for a First while he's playing good... At the moment >.>

I like your logic. Why go with the guy who's good now when you can have the guy who was good 6 years ago?!

Hopefully you get hired by a team, I'll bet I can sell you a Justin Abdelkader.

 

[GoldenSeal]

I like your logic. Why go with the guy who's good now when you can have the guy who was good 6 years ago?!

Hopefully you get hired by a team, I'll bet I can sell you a Justin Abdelkader.

I'm crazy, not stupid

And fwiw Quick was solid in the playoffs last year. I think injuries and a 2-8 record with a bad team is making him look worse than he is. When he's healthy he's a force to be reckoned with in the playoffs, has solid form and can teach the kids that and what it takes, feels and means to win and that can be a contagious thing on a bubble team. Only someone whose been there can teach that.

I'll take a chance on a guy who'll get better when he heals up who has proven himself over a guy I'm waiting for to collapse.

I'm that brand of crazy

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I'm crazy, not stupid

And fwiw Quick was solid in the playoffs last year. I think injuries and a 2-8 record with a bad team is making him look worse than he is. When he's healthy he's a force to be reckoned with in the playoffs, has solid form and can teach the kids that and what it takes, feels and means to win. Only someone whose been there can teach that.

I'll take a chance on a guy who'll get better when he heals up and has proven himself over a guy I'm waiting for to collapse.

See that's a more reasonable argument. But it also doesn't make a lick of sense for Holland to not ask for a 1st for Howard if a 2nd is a likely return. Maybe someone is desperate. You don't get if you don't ask.

Now you're putting words in my mouth! And you made me laugh too. Thank you for that. I can just imagine prospects flopping around the ice like fish and Hasek yelling "Be the Trout, BE THE TROUT!!"

Hell to the No on both of them as Coaches...jeez lol.

And I only said that because of the mention of Quick being a mentor. His play does not at all lend himself to helping out another goalie. You can want him because he's still a good goalie, but he's not going to be riding shotgun with a young guy showing him the ropes. The LA net with Quick and whatever next guy will be like Hasek and Joseph in Detroit in 2004 when Dom decided to come back.

 

[GoldenSeal]

See that's a more reasonable argument. But it also doesn't make a lick of sense for Holland to not ask for a 1st for Howard if a 2nd is a likely return. Maybe someone is desperate. You don't get if you don't ask.




And I only said that because of the mention of Quick being a mentor. His play does not at all lend himself to helping out another goalie. You can want him because he's still a good goalie, but he's not going to be riding shotgun with a young guy showing him the ropes. The LA net with Quick and whatever next guy will be like Hasek and Joseph in Detroit in 2004 when Dom decided to come back.

1. If Hollan can find a team desperate enough to offer a First, he should absolutely grab it and run. I'd rather see Howard packaged for picks and prospects myself but that's me.

Quick strikes me as a team first guy but to be fair I know little about that aspect of him and you're probably right but just having him around and having a solid D in front of him might positively affect the locker room... And the boxscore.

 

[jboknows]

Barring a late-season injury to a starting goalie on a team with a legit shot at winning the cup, I don't think there is any real possibility of getting a first for him. 2nd and something, sure. Just don't see a 1st being on the table.

 

[Calgareee]

What would Detroit think of a deal structured like

Mike Smith + 3rd rounder
If Howard plays more than 10 games and Flames make playoffs 3rd becomes a second
If Flames make conference finals and Howard play 4 games in playoffs 2nd becomes the Flames 1st

Seems to be the way trades work for rentals these days.

 

[PullHard]

What would Detroit think of a deal structured like

Mike Smith + 3rd rounder
If Howard plays more than 10 games and Flames make playoffs 3rd becomes a second
If Flames make conference finals and Howard play 4 games in playoffs 2nd becomes the Flames 1st

Seems to be the way trades work for rentals these days.

I think you're onto something. As a Wings fan I'd want more off the hop, but you're right in saying that usually the rental trades come with stipulations. Detroit did one with Philadelphia last year (Mrazek) and San Jose and Buffalo did a similar type of deal when Evander Kane got moved.