Confirmed with Link: Wings sign Larkin to 5 year deal (6.1 AAV)

Bench

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Aug 14, 2011
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Ideally we would have locked up more UFA years. Larkin definitely got the better end of this deal, assuming he performs at a similar level. He'll be in his prime as a 27-year-old UFA center and snag another 6+ year deal.

All that said, always good to see your good homegrown guys signed on. The next 5 years will be interesting to follow for this team, that's for sure.
 

Heaton

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No reason they can’t be competitive and on the upswing in 2-3 more years. If it takes 6 years to become relevant again, the Wings hav I much bigger issues to worry about than having to resign Larkin to a more expensive deal.

They better be on the upswing within 3 years.
 
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ShelbyZ

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Apr 8, 2015
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To be honest, I'm not really doing a victory lap with the rest of you then. The AAV is pretty good for our 1C, but I'd have much preferred an 8 year deal for more money (I'd have even preferred something like 8x8), or a deal that leaves him as an RFA at the end. We only bought one UFA year and 6 million is a lot of money for 4 RFA years and 1 UFA.

Winning in the cap era is largely about abusing RFA and ELC rights and we've set ourselves up to lose or overpay Larkin after this contract. I don't think the savings of a couple million during these next 5 years is worth the situation we're looking at when this contract is up. Overpaying now for a bargain in years 4-8 when we're competitive would have been worth it IMO. Or taking a shorter deal that let's us negotiate with an RFA after this contract to keep the AAV reasonable afterwards would have also been better.

That being said Larkin is an awesome player and I'm happy to have him. I just think this was essentially the worst case scenario besides a 4 year deal (or a 5 year with higher AAV).

I agree. I think there's a boatload of risk depending on what kind of player Larkin ends up and/or where the team is at in 4/5 years.

If Larkin ends up a competent #1C over the next 4/5 years and can now become a UFA prior to the age of 27 (an extremely rare occurrence), he'll pretty much be able to name his price and term starting on 7/1/22. His agent will be well aware that other teams will be happy to offer 8 years at close to league max in those 5 days prior to 7/1/23. The Red Wings will have no leverage other than "but it's your home town!"

To me it's almost like they looked at the Tavares signing this summer and completely ignored what happened to the Isles, while only looking at the fact that in the end JT couldn't resist taking a slight discount to play for the team he grew up rooting for.

Sure, in 5 years all of the Red Wings current medium to large and especially "bad" contracts will be either long gone or just expiring. That's said, it's hard to imagine this team having a truckload of cap space to overpay Larkin if they start to turn things around in that period of time, and especially if Holland or someone of his ilk is still incharge:

-If they're still around, the young guys that are on the roster now and slightly older than Larkin (IE Mantha, AA, Bertuzzi, etc.) will all be in their UFA eligible years, where Holland and Co. like to be especially generous after years of stingy bridge deals (See Abdelkader/Helm/Ericsson/Glendenning/DeKeyser).
-In addition, if they are indeed in the mix at that time, current prospects like Zadina, Rasmussen, Hronek, Cholowski, Veleno, etc. will be in various states of either getting paid big because they stepped right in and became key guys, on a bridge deal, or coming out of their ELC and needing a raise on a bridge deal.
-I'd also bet that unless he or the team are an absolute train wreck at that point, DeKeyser probably gets some kind of extension when his current deal expires.
-At that point Abdelkader probably becomes Cleary 2.0, getting overpaid to skate on the 4th line or hang out in the lockerroom because the team/coaches thinks he's great to have around regardless.
-If the team starts trending up by getting close to or making the playoffs in the next 4/5 seasons, I'm sure they'll be tempted to start dipping back into the UFA market. Especially if they have some holes in their line-up at G, D or C...
 
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lilidk

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Don't forget he is the best, cornerstone of this team . Great value for next 5 years, after that rebuild again
 

StreetHawk

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It’s a fair deal factoring in what the rfa class of 2016 signed for in mackinnon, monahan, barkov, etc. All in around the $6-$6.5 range for 6 years each. With the increase in cap from $73 to $79.5 Larkin at $6.1 for 5 years is in line. Signing him at age 27 for what vet the max length contract will be after the new cba gets signed will take him to around 34 which is when you want a big dollar deal to end.
 

ricky0034

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Jun 8, 2010
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wish Vanek hadn't been brought back for no good reason making an 8 year impossible

ah well as for the contract itself more or less as expected price wise for a 5 year
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

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I agree. I think there's a boatload of risk depending on what kind of player Larkin ends up and/or where the team is at in 4/5 years.

If Larkin ends up a competent #1C over the next 4/5 years and can now become a UFA prior to the age of 27 (an extremely rare occurrence), he'll pretty much be able to name his price and term starting on 7/1/22. His agent will be well aware that other teams will be happy to offer 8 years at close to league max in those 5 days prior to 7/1/23. The Red Wings will have no leverage other than "but it's your home town!"

To me it's almost like they looked at the Tavares signing this summer and completely ignored what happened to the Isles, while only looking at the fact that in the end JT couldn't resist taking a slight discount to play for the team he grew up rooting for.

Sure, in 5 years all of the Red Wings current medium to large and especially "bad" contracts will be either long gone or just expiring. That's said, it's hard to imagine this team having a truckload of cap space to overpay Larkin if they start to turn things around in that period of time, and especially if Holland or someone of his ilk is still incharge:

-If they're still around, the young guys that are on the roster now and slightly older than Larkin (IE Mantha, AA, Bertuzzi, etc.) will all be in their UFA eligible years, where Holland and Co. like to be especially generous after years of stingy bridge deals (See Abdelkader/Helm/Ericsson/Glendenning/DeKeyser).
-In addition, if they are indeed in the mix at that time, current prospects like Zadina, Rasmussen, Hronek, Cholowski, Veleno, etc. will be in various states of either getting paid big because they stepped right in and became key guys, on a bridge deal, or coming out of their ELC and needing a raise on a bridge deal.
-I'd also bet that unless he or the team are an absolute train wreck at that point, DeKeyser probably gets some kind of extension when his current deal expires.
-At that point Abdelkader probably becomes Cleary 2.0, getting overpaid to skate on the 4th line or hang out in the lockerroom because the team/coaches thinks he's great to have around regardless.
-If the team starts trending up by getting close to or making the playoffs in the next 4/5 seasons, I'm sure they'll be tempted to start dipping back into the UFA market. Especially if they have some holes in their line-up at G, D or C...

I just think most of the "risk" is whether we end up having to pay Larkin like he's a top 10-15 player in the NHL. If he is, roll out the blank check to him. If he isn't and kinda plateaus at a 60-70 point 2C, pay him the equivalent cap hit % of a 7.5-8M deal in 5 years.

Basically, I'd love to have our team set up to where we plan on overpaying our stud players if we overpay anyone. My opinion is that if we are to come back to being a contender... Dylan Larkin is not going to be the best player on this roster. We need to plan for that to be the case. And "competent #1C" doesn't get you near league max. Competent 1C is David Krejci money. Competent 1C is Ryan Johansen money. Competent 1C is Kuznetsov money.

John Tavares is a bona-fide star as a UFA after getting crazy underpaid and he got 7x11. If the Wings were a year or two closer to pulling out of their rut and had the space for it, I'd have given him 7x11 in a heartbeat. Larkin becomes that kind of 90 point C, I don't have a problem paying him that.
 

Ezekial

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wish Vanek hadn't been brought back for no good reason making an 8 year impossible

ah well as for the contract itself more or less as expected price wise for a 5 year
No Vanek - No Green - No Z - No Kronwall

Bert-Larkin-Mantha
Rasmussen-Nielsen-Nyquist
Zadina-Helm-AA
Abby-Glenny-Frk/Svech

DDK-Daley
Big E-Jensen
Sulak/Hicketts-Hronek

Good roster for Jack Hughes

Terrible roster to develop young telent.

Edit: It's seeming more and more like KH knew about Z's grim status even then.
 

waltdetroit

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Jul 20, 2010
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Actual salary per year (CapFriendly)- interesting
2018-19 2019-20 2020-21 2021-22 2022-23
$6,750,000 $7,000,000 $4,750,000 $6,750,000 $5,250,000
 

waltdetroit

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Yes, larks has a NTC the 5th season which is a lower amount of pay too.
Front loaded or more tradable after year 4?
 

Ezekial

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Yes, larks has a NTC the 5th season which is a lower amount of pay too.
Front loaded or more tradable after year 4?
First low salary year is opt out protection, second low salary year is expiration protection.
I can't really speculate on the ntc, probably Larkin not wanting to be a rental or wanting to control his fate in that case.
 

Zetterbeer

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Aug 4, 2018
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I think Larkin is a lifer, following Zetterberg and Datsyuk. He took 5 years on his hometown team at a price that fit Detroit's needs now, knowing he will get paid in 5 years if he improves like most people think he can. Kenny or whoever is running the show at that point will have tons of money to work with when his contract expires, bearing we don't sign any ridiculous contracts in free agency, Larkin and Abby are the only players signed until 2023-2024.

There is no reason to worry about his next contract, he's locked up for a great price for the next 5 years and has the C right around the corner.
 

obey86

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Jun 9, 2009
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This was pretty much my ideal situation. Everyone is saying it's bad he'll be a free agent at age 27, I see it as the complete opposite.
 

Shaman464

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No Vanek - No Green - No Z - No Kronwall

Bert-Larkin-Mantha
Rasmussen-Nielsen-Nyquist
Zadina-Helm-AA
Abby-Glenny-Frk/Svech

DDK-Daley
Big E-Jensen
Sulak/Hicketts-Hronek

Good roster for Jack Hughes

Terrible roster to develop young telent.

Edit: It's seeming more and more like KH knew about Z's grim status even then.

Yeah because Vanek is well known to be a great presence for youth... and a busted Kronwall and a mediocre Green are what players should be looking up to. I guess Nielsen, Abby, Helm, E, DDK and Daley can't help to develop the team..
 

Shaman464

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This was pretty much my ideal situation. Everyone is saying it's bad he'll be a free agent at age 27, I see it as the complete opposite.

I am glad your crystal ball is working. Depending on how the FA class works out Larkin could be looking at a massive contract from any team with the space to swing it. And at 27, even a maximum length term only brings him to 35, meaning that most of what a buyer would be getting would be prime years, making him even more prime for a UFA overpayment. 6 years is pretty much the dumbest term they could give him, because it neither forces a maximum contract at UFA into the post 35 years, nor does it leave Detroit with any bargaining chips like a year of RFA status to keep the negotiations in house for his late 20s and early thirties.
 

StargateSG1

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I think Larkin is a lifer, following Zetterberg and Datsyuk. He took 5 years on his hometown team at a price that fit Detroit's needs now, knowing he will get paid in 5 years if he improves like most people think he can. Kenny or whoever is running the show at that point will have tons of money to work with when his contract expires, bearing we don't sign any ridiculous contracts in free agency, Larkin and Abby are the only players signed until 2023-2024.

There is no reason to worry about his next contract, he's locked up for a great price for the next 5 years and has the C right around the corner.

Right now, it looks like a good contract, but he needs to continue to develop...
According to Corsica, he is the 38th best center and 84th best forward,
Tavares is 24th best Center, for perspective purposes.
He has waaaays to go, it looks like.

Identifying the Optimal Contract For Dylan Larkin
 

Ezekial

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Yeah because Vanek is well known to be a great presence for youth... and a busted Kronwall and a mediocre Green are what players should be looking up to. I guess Nielsen, Abby, Helm, E, DDK and Daley can't help to develop the team..
If they wanted a team with 6 rookies on it we'd be watching it.
 

Cyborg Yzerberg

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The term is a little unusual, and I saw Custance speculating that the distribution per year may have to do with ANOTHER potential lockout in a couple of years. :facepalm:

Obviously, this was an extremely necessary signing and I like everything about it.

That said, it’s f***ing hilarious that this team is somehow over the cap.
 

Flowah

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Nov 30, 2009
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Yes, larks has a NTC the 5th season which is a lower amount of pay too.
Front loaded or more tradable after year 4?
Are you suggesting they made this deal and built in a mechanism to make it easier to trade Larkin near the end, during his prime?
 

Spitfire11

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Jan 17, 2003
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Hilarious that the one valuable piece this team has is the one they leave last to sign and have to fit into the cap. How are people happy with this deal when it takes away just 1 UFA year? It's not exactly a bargain cap hit.
 
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obey86

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I am glad your crystal ball is working. Depending on how the FA class works out Larkin could be looking at a massive contract from any team with the space to swing it. And at 27, even a maximum length term only brings him to 35, meaning that most of what a buyer would be getting would be prime years, making him even more prime for a UFA overpayment. 6 years is pretty much the dumbest term they could give him, because it neither forces a maximum contract at UFA into the post 35 years, nor does it leave Detroit with any bargaining chips like a year of RFA status to keep the negotiations in house for his late 20s and early thirties.

If the Wings are lucky enough and Larkin continues to improve and can demand a nice/huge contract in 5 years, i'm sure they'll be quite happy/enthusiastic to pay him big money on a max term deal to age 35 for an elite or near elite caliber player. I don't see what the problem is? Sure, maybe the last 2-3 seasons of his deal he would be overpaid after a decline but who cares? I'd rather overpay him at ages 33, 34, and 35 than let a great player (in this hypothetical scenario) walk in free agency at age 29 (after an 8 year deal now) or sign him to big money through age 37 - as those would be the 2 other most likely scenarios.
 
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