Post-Game Talk: Wings Ruin Alfie Day
- Thread starter SoupNazi
- Start date
Who on this team is producing? He's being benched for "defensive lapses". He needs to let the kids learn how to score at the NHL level, then worry about being defensively responsible. Instead he's doing it backwards, trying to turn 4th line retreads into point producers.
Like it or not, he is trying to win games and keep his job, not develop young talent. The Wings coach who will oversee the rebuild will be charged with the development of young talent. We are not yet rebuilding.
I can't wait for Blash's successor and the reaction of people around here when he makes many of the same decisions and reaches many of the same conclusions as Blash.
TheOtherOne
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- Jan 2, 2010
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Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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Is that at Even Strength?
Puckalytics says Mantha and Athanasiou have the same points/60 at ES.
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One of my least favourite statistics out there. It has no context in terms of zone starts, quality of comp., blowout points, etc. Further, it systematically favours players who play less due to as ice time and production can never be a direct correlation. Many players become less effective when they play more. Also the more you play the more difficult your matchups become. There is also the sample size issue.
Bottom line is that p/60 has many flaws.
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Do you have anything to support ice time and production are inversely correlated?
TheOtherOne
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No it's overall.
It may be a flawed statistic out of context but when the argument is "he should produce more" it's a perfectly valid response.
I do not and should probably limit my statement to "there is no direct correlation between production and ice time" I was trying to get to the point that many players become less effective when they play more.
At any rate Ill stand by statement of p/60 having numerous flaws.
This is bad. We need to be losing so we can get a high draft pick and hopefully turn it into a franchise player.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
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I think points/60 is a good player is a good indicator that a player should be used more, or at the least, that a player is doing above expected in his current role.
Obviously what will happen when that bump in ice time happens is an unknown, and the likely scenario is that with increased usage and QOC those numbers will regress, as Sirloin pointed out.
But Athanasiou's production with the time he is given absolutely warrants that he should be played more. Because even if the odds of him maintaining that production with an expanded role is low, you should at least test it out. Especially when a lot of guys on our team can't handle the role they are being asked to do well.
Obviously what will happen when that bump in ice time happens is an unknown, and the likely scenario is that with increased usage and QOC those numbers will regress, as Sirloin pointed out.
But Athanasiou's production with the time he is given absolutely warrants that he should be played more. Because even if the odds of him maintaining that production with an expanded role is low, you should at least test it out. Especially when a lot of guys on our team can't handle the role they are being asked to do well.
PelagicJoe
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obey86
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Dekeyser is the one who turned the puck over for both Ottawa goals last night, think there's any chance he will ever be "reprimanded" or have his minutes cut next game so he can learn form his mistake? Na.
Presumably its because most of the vets are playing somewhere near their current potential, bar those who are either injured or playing with zero confidence despite decent effort like Nike.
Sheahan needs calling out, but I don't know what good it will do.
Mantha and AA frustrate coaches because the former can be brilliant when he's engaged and moving a lot, a potential first liner on that form, and AA because sometimes he forgets that footspeed and hands are not enough, and when he remembers to bring it all, he too can be a fairly dominant force. The problem for us is that trying to teach these lessons the hard way hurts the team because more ice-time goes to harder working players with far less talent.
But the gap between DDK and his likely replacement (if benched) is massive in comparison to the gap between AA and the next man up. This is why it is much harder to bench vets.
obey86
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It certainly depends on what means by "less effective."
From an efficiency perspective, sure, a player will likely get less effective the more time he gets. From a total production perspective, I don't believe that's true at all.
I think if you take random player A who is getting 10 minutes a night and just start giving him 15 minutes a night his total points will increase while his efficiency declines.
TOI is a critical component of total points which everyone overlooks for some reason. Give me two guys with the exact same skill level/ability and the guy playing 15 min will score more over the course of a season than the guy playing 8...in more cases than it. Can't score when you aren't on the ice.
Agree on VNN line and on the D observation. Xavier hasn't the highest upside, but he is genuine smart, positionally sound and a good decision maker. Stick his brain in Brendan Smith and you have a top 4 d-man for sure. Number 61 might yet become that long term if his current growth rate continues...
If he can learnt to be as good in front of the net as Homer (but with his better hands), he'll never be allowed to leave! In all honesty, Jurco has looked decent since coming back, but without looking like the goal scorer he obviously is at AHL level. Still others I would give up on before him though.
Looks like Jensen, XO, Sproul, and Marchenko all can be NHL players in the #4-#6 slot, at least. Never thought I'd see the day where they'd all be on the roster at once. The 2011 draft turned out pretty good, I'd say.
Mattias Backman should have stuck around instead of pouting and threatening to go back to Sweden. He could have been the best of them all.
jkutswings
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It also makes sense to be harder on the kids when you have a Hall of Fame roster, and have the luxury of letting everybody over ripen for half a decade.
Maybe now that the team stinks, they should let the kids have a longer leash, and actually evaluate what young talent they do have.
aar000n
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He needs more PP time and top 6 minutes.
HIFE
Registered User
Except that XO can't skate! I agree with the analysis regarding his intelligence, size, and heart. But positioning can only make up so much for a physical handicap like the inability to skate even decently fast. I've seen Ouellet passed in a race by players 10 feet behind him multiple times.
A friend of mine has a blue pitt-bull that is a beautiful and wonderful animal...but the the poor dog has hip dysplasia. Starts walking then his rear crumples underneath, he can barely jump up a few stairs. The same way I think about XO it's tragic a player could be this gifted and also physically debilitated. Sorry to say but it just seems impossible he remains a realistic piece moving forward.
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