Post-Game Talk: Wings Ruin Alfie Day

[Dotter]

Nothing about AA's play, development or attitude suggests there's anything behind the scenes going on. If there was, chances are he'd be in GR or traded.

It's just Blash being overly hard on a young player. He's had the exact same way of handling most of our young players. Doesn't give them chance to learn from mistakes, which is generally the absolute worst way to do it.

Sounds exactly like Babcock. If my memory serves me correctly, Scotty Bowman was also pretty tough on kids.

 

[BinCookin]

So he doesn't even get ONE shift in the third to prove he's ready to go? C'mon now.

AA as much as i love the guy, was kinda dogging it on the backcheck and the 2nd goal against is 100% his fault. Thats why he was benched. I mean jeez osgood and crew analyzed the play, remember?

Also last game Larkin's crap backcheck directly led to a goal against.


So I am glad the kids pay for their mistakes with lost ice time. Think I am being too rough? considering AA and Larkin's Speed, i saw them both coasting on those 2 plays. I mean maybe tired etc etc.. but i saw no effort on them and both led directly to a player being open, both D men covering their proper men, and goals against. I know this because i didnt fault the D men on the goals.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Sounds exactly like Babcock. If my memory serves me correctly, Scotty Bowman was also pretty tough on kids.

Devil's in the details. Babs was hard on players but even when a kid would make a bad mistake, he wouldn't sit on the bench the way AA/Sproul/Mantha/etc have been doing frequently. If they kept making mistakes, they might be scratched or sent down, but you need to have some patience. You don't sit Sproul for weeks because he has a bad game. And how are Larkin/AA/Mantha/etc supposed to ever learn how to take over the leading roles on the team if they're always sitting on the bench in those deciding moments?

I remember Babs doing things like trusting Jurco-Sheahan-Tatar in last minute situations when we were chasing goals. Nyquist-Andersson-Brunner got good minutes, not 5 BS minutes. Tatar was a turnover machine in his first year or two. Babs didn't scratch the guy once after his initial 'tie goes to the veteran' start.

Young players make mistakes. You need to allow them to make those mistakes, and only actually punish them if they keep making those same mistakes.

 

[Wood Stick]

AA and Larkin have been weak defensively at the NHL level. I know the line combos have sucked bad, but I can see why he got his benching. I know I'm going to get argued with, so I'll leave it at that.

Also going to point out Xavier Ouellet has been really, really strong. He's been sound defensively. His spurts in the NHL have been good to bad. Good when he was getting that 12 minutes that Jensen is now, and bad when he got above 14. He's playing big minutes right now, third most on the team at nearly 20 and he's been playing really well. He didn't get a shot tonight but he's been getting shots to the net.

Kronwall was also really good tonight. 5th in minutes. If we can get a legit number one D somehow and push everydown a spot, we actually have a fairly good defense. Everyone's in way over their head.

Vanek-Nielsen-Nyquist has been really good. Keep that together. Keep the top line together. When the other guys get back, bottom six them. Ott and Miller have both played fairly good hockey too man.

AA-Helm/Sheahan-Abdelkader
Miller/Ott-Glendening-Sheahan/Helm

I'm done with Jurco sadly.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Devil's in the details. Babs was hard on players but even when a kid would make a bad mistake, he wouldn't sit on the bench the way AA/Sproul/Mantha/etc have been doing frequently. If they kept making mistakes, they might be scratched or sent down, but you need to have some patience. You don't sit Sproul for weeks because he has a bad game. And how are Larkin/AA/Mantha/etc supposed to ever learn how to take over the leading roles on the team if they're always sitting on the bench in those deciding moments?

I remember Babs doing things like trusting Jurco-Sheahan-Tatar in last minute situations when we were chasing goals. Nyquist-Andersson-Brunner got good minutes, not 5 BS minutes. Tatar was a turnover machine in his first year or two. Babs didn't scratch the guy once after his initial 'tie goes to the veteran' start.

Young players make mistakes. You need to allow them to make those mistakes, and only actually punish them if they keep making those same mistakes.

There is a huge difference between mistakes and a lack of effort. If you consistently show good effort (something AA has not in the last two games) you will always have a longer leash.

The people clamoring for AA to play more are the same folks that thought that Pulks would become a 40 goal scorer if we only played him in the top six.

 

[Pavels Dog]

There is a huge difference between mistakes and a lack of effort. If you consistently show good effort (something AA has not in the last two games) you will always have a longer leash.

The people clamoring for AA to play more are the same folks that thought that Pulks would become a 40 goal scorer if we only played him in the top six.

In this specific instance I don't really have a problem with AA's minutes being limited. But he has played sub-10mins plenty of times when he has actually been one of the players showing the most effort and generating the most. And like I said it's not just limited to AA, it's a consistent pattern with Blash. For a long time, he would throw Jurco extra shifts on the top line instead of Mantha. He still doesn't really use Mantha enough in big moments like late in games, OT, etc. It's common to see Sheahan/Helm/Abby/Nielsen/etc get shifts in OT before Mantha or AA.
Sproul's been a breath of fresh air on our D. He makes mistakes, but I've not seen him make the same mistake too many times. An OT turnover got him scratched for a few weeks. Why not let the guy take that L and play him the next game and hope he comes back determined to have a better game? That's how you see what he's made of, not by sitting the guy and making him afraid to play his game because a turnover could lose him his job.

I don't think anyone should be in the lineup if they get 5 minutes, especially not a young player with plenty of things to work on. It's bad icetime management and I'd rather see AA playing 20 minutes a night in GR learning to be better.

As for Pulkks, I was always skeptical of the kid and he bears almost no similarities to AA in playstyle or tools.

 

[aar000n]

Jurco was digging pucks out and playing well tonight. Not sure why he is the new whipping boy but then people did the same with Holmström.

 

[HIFE]

The win also ruins the hopes of the majority here who want the Wings to lose or believed they'll end up last in the Atlantic. I said weeks ago they will win some big games and claw themselves nearer to the PO's. Like it or not getting Abdelkader, Helm, and especially Green back will help grind out more points.

I think AA is trying too hard in the wrong ways. He and Larkin can fly so fast their feet pumping maniacally but they regularly can't keep the puck with them. Or they enter the zone and pull up right into a defender who strips them. Honestly a lack of IQ is the biggest problem making them play like over-sized children.

Thank injuries for getting Mantha in and firmly established on the Wings. It pushes Jurco, Miller, Sheahan, etc. down and off the team. Mantha's grandfather won 4 Cups which makes AM basically hockey royalty there should have been no doubt. What an exceptional player, so happy for him!

 

[Wood Stick]

Jurco was digging pucks out and playing well tonight. Not sure why he is the new whipping boy but then people did the same with Holmström.

He's a top nine player style-wise. Had a good game, we just have better options. He's not getting it done.

 

[HIFE]

Jurco was digging pucks out and playing well tonight. Not sure why he is the new whipping boy but then people did the same with Holmström.

It was the best game I think I've ever seen Jurco play. Do you guys notice how rapidly old man Ott gets his feet moving? Same thing with Jurco tonight, great effort. The problem is just like Ott, Jurco cannot score or create legitimate chances to save his life (or career, haha). I don't know- between Sheahan, Miller, Jurco, Ott, Glendening, take your pick as to who is the most useless. I don't think it matters either way.

 

[Wood Stick]

It was the best game I think I've ever seen Jurco play. Do you guys notice how rapidly old man Ott gets his feet moving? Same thing with Jurco tonight, great effort. The problem is just like Ott, Jurco cannot score or create legitimate chances to save his life (or career, haha). I don't know- between Sheahan, Miller, Jurco, Ott, Glendening, take your pick as to who is the most useless. I don't think it matters either way.

Steve Ott can actually read plays offensively unlike Miller and Glenny. It's strange. You can tell why this guy was once a captain. I personally love Ott. Jurco just doesn't have a finish and not as much skill as we once hoped for. His possession isn't the best, his passing is always in skates and his shot at this level has been weak

I think the best spot for him would be in front of the net on the PP. Id personally use Mantha in a one timer spot now and try Jurcs in front. Mantha has a very hard shot, and it's accurate too. Likes to go low. Vanek-Nielsen-Gus running their PP unit was actually successful despite zero goals. They created chances and had obvious weak links.

Love Jensen but we kind of need Sproul in as Smith and Kronny aren't good enough on the backend. Let's assume Green is still out

Jurco (net)
Z - boards
Mantha - faceoff dot area looking for the shot
Kronny - Kind of just the vet that can keep the puck in
Nyquist - can handle the puck, work the boards and maybe hit a deflection in the middle

Vanek - wall
Nielsen - opposite wall
Larkin - net
Tatar - similar role to Tatar
Sproul - shot

I know it ****s up the lines with the Tats/Gus swith.

 

[Claypool]

Kronwall has 3 points in 23 games. Yikes.

 

[Wood Stick]

Kronwall has 3 points in 23 games. Yikes.

I mean is that surprising? Nyquist has like a goal in 24 games. Tatar is just now scoring. Awful, awful PP. Nick Jensen doe, 2 points in 4 games .. I actually really like him.

 

[Bench]

Devil's in the details. Babs was hard on players but even when a kid would make a bad mistake, he wouldn't sit on the bench the way AA/Sproul/Mantha/etc have been doing frequently. If they kept making mistakes, they might be scratched or sent down, but you need to have some patience. You don't sit Sproul for weeks because he has a bad game. And how are Larkin/AA/Mantha/etc supposed to ever learn how to take over the leading roles on the team if they're always sitting on the bench in those deciding moments?

I remember Babs doing things like trusting Jurco-Sheahan-Tatar in last minute situations when we were chasing goals. Nyquist-Andersson-Brunner got good minutes, not 5 BS minutes. Tatar was a turnover machine in his first year or two. Babs didn't scratch the guy once after his initial 'tie goes to the veteran' start.

Young players make mistakes. You need to allow them to make those mistakes, and only actually punish them if they keep making those same mistakes.

Part of why many of us wanted to turn the page from Babcock is to usher in a young players coach. A guy who would signal the transition from veteran defensive hockey to youthful speed and offense.

Blashill was the hope, given his resume in Grand Rapids, but I think we're seeing he's very much taking all his moves from the book of Babcock. And instead of being a savvy veteran NHL coach, he's still figuring things out. It's been pretty disappointing.

Anyway, it's exciting that Mantha continues to do well.

 

[Gyldenlove]

Athanasiou logged 5:13, didn't get off the bench in the third. Blashill: "It’s a coach’s decision. I’ll just leave it at that.â€

That is like saying, "The earth if flat, that is just opinion". Just because you made the decision doesn't make it right, ffs.

 

[ap3x]

They won't stop teasing us. Good game. Awful game vs. the Leafs up next?

 

[Claypool]

They won't stop teasing us. Good game. Awful game vs. the Leafs up next?

Helps when you don't start a goalie who gives up at least three every game. I bet they win if they start Coreau.

 

[obey86]

AA as much as i love the guy, was kinda dogging it on the backcheck and the 2nd goal against is 100% his fault. Thats why he was benched. I mean jeez osgood and crew analyzed the play, remember?

Also last game Larkin's crap backcheck directly led to a goal against.


So I am glad the kids pay for their mistakes with lost ice time. Think I am being too rough? considering AA and Larkin's Speed, i saw them both coasting on those 2 plays. I mean maybe tired etc etc.. but i saw no effort on them and both led directly to a player being open, both D men covering their proper men, and goals against. I know this because i didnt fault the D men on the goals.

When are players like DeKeyser, Sheahan, Glendening, etc going to have to pay for their numerous mistakes with a loss of ice time? Or are they just so good they don't make any mistakes?

 

[Claypool]

When are players like DeKeyser, Sheahan, Glendening, etc going to have to pay for their numerous mistakes with a loss of ice time? Or are they just so good they don't make any mistakes?

You really think Blashill is making it personal or something? Guy has coached AA his entire professional career. Blashill isn't afraid to bench other guys. Mantha sat on the bench numerous times and it seems he figured it out. Mrazek is riding the pine. Sprout is sitting. Sheahan was finally put down. He's going to sit the younger players making mistakes than the vets. That's how life goes.

 

[theYman]

When are players like DeKeyser, Sheahan, Glendening, etc going to have to pay for their numerous mistakes with a loss of ice time? Or are they just so good they don't make any mistakes?

Well Glenny is making mistakes because he's playing where he shouldn't be. Same with Dekeyser. Sheahan ,well, not sure what's going on with him. He just sucks I guess.

 

[aar000n]

That is like saying, "The earth if flat, that is just opinion". Just because you made the decision doesn't make it right, ffs.

Maybe he was experiencing pain and he decided to not play him based on that.

 

[drwings40]

6 points (4G,2A) in his last 5 games. Hes doing really well for this little stretch thats for sure.

Anthony Mantha is the first Wings rookie with points in 5 consecutive games since Sergei Fedorov.

 

[PuckDynasty]

Babcock had the luxury of sitting younger players because there were still somewhat capable veterans. Not the case now. I also think you have to be consistent. I can't count how many giveaways DeKeyser has had that have lead to goals, and yet he doesn't sit out, ever. The Wings aren't likely making the playoffs. I'd rather see guys like Larkin and AA learn now and get the experience they need. Blashill is coaching this team like it's still 2002. They don't have the depth to just bench talented young players anymore. They're still obsessed with making every player "defensive" minded. I'm okay with Larkin, AA and Mantha making the occasional defensive lapse if you let them open it up and score goals. It's not like we're losing games 8-6.

 

[obey86]

You really think Blashill is making it personal or something? Guy has coached AA his entire professional career. Blashill isn't afraid to bench other guys. Mantha sat on the bench numerous times and it seems he figured it out. Mrazek is riding the pine. Sprout is sitting. Sheahan was finally put down. He's going to sit the younger players making mistakes than the vets. That's how life goes.

I really think blashill treats different players different, yes.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I really think blashill treats different players different, yes.

Human nature tells us that this will happen with every coach.

Blashill benched AA for that goal last night. When you have AA's skating ability and you're caught dogging it that will happen.

What I think he needs to be more honest about is few guys again are playing at an acceptable level. What he is doing isn't working. One of the first places he can look at is ice time distribution. If he ups the minutes and we get hammered for a couple games he can actually say hey listen I tried that and we got crunched with AA playing more.

I know coaches don't let outside voices run their team, but he also should be trying more things in terms of mixing it up. The promote a grinder (outside of Ott getting us going a couple games ago) thing hasn't done the trick thus far. I get earning it, but Blashill has to realize he is getting on thin ice, I would think he would rather go out on his shield than meekly going away. He is a good coach, what he does next might determine his next shot somewhere and right now some of his decisions are going to be hard to explain in another job interview. That is kind of what floors me there in terms of some of this stuff. When you're dealt a bad situation it is what it is, however he needs to be thinking of how to explain this tire fire when he sits in front of somebody other than Holland.