Wings on path to shatter post cap goal differential

[avssuc]

If things continue, they will be around -145 at season's end. For perspective, the 14-15 Sabers were a dreadful -113.

They're also on pace smash the record for lowest point percentage and fewest wins in a season, pushing the 16-17 Avs into 2nd.

This is something we all knew already, and many of us have come to peace with.

That said, what do you folks think about where this team is at compared to any other team that finished last, since the cap?

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[DetroitRed]

I think, since 2017, the lottery system has changed and under the new system, it hasn't been shown yet that teams can rebuild, or if they can, how long it now takes to do so. It's also set to get worse because with 32 teams after this season, we're going from a situation where 16 teams, instead of 15 teams, will have three chances to bump others for picks one to three.

It's probably even likely that the team's wild record and goal differential this season is, to a significant degree, a result of the lottery system which has set them further and further back in the rebuild every year - despite that they played hard.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

If things continue, they will be around -145 at season's end. For perspective, the 14-15 Sabres were a dreadful -113.

They're also on pace smash the record for lowest point percentage and fewest wins in a season, pushing the 16-17 Avs into 2nd.

This is something we all knew already, and many of us have come to peace with.

That said, what do you folks think about where this team is at compared to any other team that finished last, since the cap?

I think any comparison is irrelevant due to the situations being so drastically different. The only team that remotely approached what Detroit is doing right now was Colorado and the Avs had no earthly right to be that bad. That was a roster that had some MAJOR league pieces.

Also, Detroit is shedding 75% of the current players they have in the next year or two. They’ll retain some for continuity’s sake, but so many pieces that were overpaid and overloaded will just be gone. So the Wings, with aggressive management, could be a wholly different team in 20-21 and definitely will be in 21-22.

You can have a discussion about it, but the Wings are in such a unique spot right now, because they are building the roster but for this season + next season, they are letting contracts roll off books. It’s really difficult to say Detroit is here and man, they need to catch up to Vancouver who is here. Give Yzerman the chance to be aggressive once he’s got the cap freed up

 

[Lampedampe]

I think, since 2017, the lottery system has changed and under the new system, it hasn't been shown yet that teams can rebuild, or if they can, how long it now takes to do so. It's also set to get worse because with 32 teams after this season, we're going from a situation where 16 teams, instead of 15 teams, will have three chances to bump others for picks one to three.

It's probably even likely that the team's wild record and goal differential this season is, to a significant degree, a result of the lottery system which has set them further and further back in the rebuild every year - despite that they played hard.

What sucks about the new system is that a team like the Rangers/Devils can win the lottery one year, have a noticible improvement and then still have a decent chance at winning the lottery. Meanwhile a team like Detroit who desperatly needs to add talent can finish last and have a higher chance at finishing outside the lottery compared to winnning it. If you look at the lottery winners since the new systems inception we have Chicago jumping into the top - 3 along with Carolina, Flyers, Winnipeg, Rangers and probably a team that i'm forgetting. All of which finsihed outside the top-5 and already had a pretty good team.

The system has to change, keep the lottery for the top-3 but adjust the chances so that a team that finishes last at the very least have a higher probability of getting a top-3 than 49%.

 

[Run the Jewels]

If things continue, they will be around -145 at season's end. For perspective, the 14-15 Sabres were a dreadful -113.

They're also on pace smash the record for lowest point percentage and fewest wins in a season, pushing the 16-17 Avs into 2nd.

This is something we all knew already, and many of us have come to peace with.

That said, what do you folks think about where this team is at compared to any other team that finished last, since the cap?

Good thing we paid a premium for that veteran presence in the locker room. Think of how much worse we'd be without them!

 

[Frk It]

Good thing we paid a premium for that veteran presence in the locker room. Think of how much worse we'd be without them!

Yeah... I know we wanted to try to keep our "winning culture", but unfortunately these things have a shelf life.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I looked up to see what the NHL record for worst goal differential was, and holy cow the 74-75 Capitals were bad.

-265. That's insane.

 

[Retire91]

I don't think the NHL parody or draft system can be blamed the situation came about because the organization decided to go for as many playoff appearances as they could get and stacked the team with veteran presence and near retirement UFA to do so. Any team that does that is going to bottom out eventually. If Yzerman did anything to immediately improve he would do so at the detrimental to the long game and entering an endless cycle of mediocrity. So we are essentially stuck until we can restock and also shed the negative assets that are left over. It just is what it is.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I don't think the NHL parody or draft system can be blamed the situation came about because the organization decided to go for as many playoff appearances as they could get and stacked the team with veteran presence and near retirement UFA to do so. Any team that does that is going to bottom out eventually. If Yzerman did anything to immediately improve he would do so at the detrimental to the long game and entering an endless cycle of mediocrity. So we are essentially stuck until we can restock and also shed the negative assets that are left over. It just is what it is.

That's not why they ran into problems. The Wings had veryt little success in the draft 05-12. It's not because they signed veterans to push a playoff streak. It's that they absolutely whiffed on 75% of their picks and the ones they hit on were only singles or solid doubles (Nyquist, Tatar, AA, etc.)

It's less the signing of veterans and more that we got only a couple good pieces while other teams that became successful landed elite talent.

 

[TheClap]

I don't think the NHL parody or draft system can be blamed the situation came about because the organization decided to go for as many playoff appearances as they could get and stacked the team with veteran presence and near retirement UFA to do so. Any team that does that is going to bottom out eventually. If Yzerman did anything to immediately improve he would do so at the detrimental to the long game and entering an endless cycle of mediocrity. So we are essentially stuck until we can restock and also shed the negative assets that are left over. It just is what it is.

Parody - an imitation of the style of a particular writer, artist, or genre with deliberate exaggeration for comic effect.
Parity - he state or condition of being equal, especially regarding status or pay.

Sorry to go all grammar police on you. Just a huge pet peeve of mine.

 

[Retire91]

Parody - an imitation of the style of a particular writer, artist, or genre with deliberate exaggeration for comic effect.
Parity - he state or condition of being equal, especially regarding status or pay.

Sorry to go all grammar police on you. Just a huge pet peeve of mine.

lol my bad I was just typing in a quick one in between fires at work.

That's not why they ran into problems. The Wings had veryt little success in the draft 05-12. It's not because they signed veterans to push a playoff streak. It's that they absolutely whiffed on 75% of their picks and the ones they hit on were only singles or solid doubles (Nyquist, Tatar, AA, etc.)

It's less the signing of veterans and more that we got only a couple good pieces while other teams that became successful landed elite talent.

At some point you need high draft picks to land elite talent. Although its not impossible to find elite talent late in the draft it takes an extreme amount of luck to build a second core capable of contention without any break in a winning streak. Luck is not a strategy. You keep hiring guns to slow the decline and get to the playoffs you do so at the sacrifice of your draft position. Its not rocket science.

 

[TheClap]

That's not why they ran into problems. The Wings had veryt little success in the draft 05-12. It's not because they signed veterans to push a playoff streak. It's that they absolutely whiffed on 75% of their picks and the ones they hit on were only singles or solid doubles (Nyquist, Tatar, AA, etc.)

It's less the signing of veterans and more that we got only a couple good pieces while other teams that became successful landed elite talent.

A little column A, a little column B
Signing of some of these free agents exhausted their cap and inhibited their ability to add meaningful talent in free agency as well. Perhaps that meaningful talent wasn't coming here anyway, but when you've got nearly $17 million in cap space tied up in 4 players that can barely hack it in the NHL anymore, that's a huge problem. That can afford 2 all-star caliber players.

 

[Frk It]

That's not why they ran into problems. The Wings had veryt little success in the draft 05-12. It's not because they signed veterans to push a playoff streak. It's that they absolutely whiffed on 75% of their picks and the ones they hit on were only singles or solid doubles (Nyquist, Tatar, AA, etc.)

It's less the signing of veterans and more that we got only a couple good pieces while other teams that became successful landed elite talent.

Most teams would fail over that same time frame drafting where Detroit drafted.... I'd say overwhelmingly so.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

We had a really bad roster going into the season and have had some big injuries to some key players along the way and subpar goaltending. I don't like the results, but do understand where the goal differential is coming from.

The goal differential will be better next year, but the overal record will be pretty similar.

 

[PelagicJoe]

That's not why they ran into problems. The Wings had veryt little success in the draft 05-12. It's not because they signed veterans to push a playoff streak. It's that they absolutely whiffed on 75% of their picks and the ones they hit on were only singles or solid doubles (Nyquist, Tatar, AA, etc.)

It's less the signing of veterans and more that we got only a couple good pieces while other teams that became successful landed elite talent.

This is exactly why we suck. I looked at the draft picks during those years you mentioned. WOOF.
The best ones from that group were Tatar, Nyquist, AA, Mrazek. All 2nd line guys at best plus a goalie.

The only ones remaining on the team are Helm, Gator, and AA. (I may be missing one.)

We absolutely sucked at the draft during that time. None of our first rounders from 05-12 were worth a flying you know what either.

 

[Run the Jewels]

lol my bad I was just typing in a quick one in between fires at work.



At some point you need high draft picks to land elite talent. Although its not impossible to find elite talent late in the draft it takes an extreme amount of luck to build a second core capable of contention without any break in a winning streak. Luck is not a strategy. You keep hiring guns to slow the decline and get to the playoffs you do so at the sacrifice of your draft position. Its not rocket science.

That's not what the Red Wings fans who mocked Chicago and Pittsburgh believed. They truly believed we'd restock through the draft and keep signing the old guys to maintain the winning culture. Needless to say the goalposts keep having to get moved. I'm so glad all that nonsense is over.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

That's not what the Red Wings fans who mocked Chicago and Pittsburgh believed. They truly believed we'd restock through the draft and keep signing the old guys to maintain the winning culture. Needless to say the goalposts keep having to get moved. I'm so glad all that nonsense is over.

Why wouldn't they believe we would restock through the draft? The issue with the Wings draft is that they got complacent (along with some bad luck with studs who they did pick that got in motorcycle accidents or had their heart attack them) They took a safe pick in Riley Sheahan as opposed to a high risk, high reward guy in Kuznetsov. Three picks in 2011 before Nikita Kucherov is taken. Wings got fat and happy (judging by the lack of upgrades in training equipment/methods and their massive man-games lost to injury, I'm guessing literally) and believed their own press about being drafting wizards.

The guys they picked to extend and the amount of dollars they gave were mistakes, but signing veterans to attempt to keep a culture of accountability was not a mistake. The gameplan of the rebuild was reasonable. They just flubbed it at every turn they could as well as a couple of unforeseen body blows.

 

[Frk It]

Why wouldn't they believe we would restock through the draft? The issue with the Wings draft is that they got complacent (along with some bad luck with studs who they did pick that got in motorcycle accidents or had their heart attack them) They took a safe pick in Riley Sheahan as opposed to a high risk, high reward guy in Kuznetsov. Three picks in 2011 before Nikita Kucherov is taken. Wings got fat and happy (judging by the lack of upgrades in training equipment/methods and their massive man-games lost to injury, I'm guessing literally) and believed their own press about being drafting wizards.

The guys they picked to extend and the amount of dollars they gave were mistakes, but signing veterans to attempt to keep a culture of accountability was not a mistake. The gameplan of the rebuild was reasonable. They just flubbed it at every turn they could as well as a couple of unforeseen body blows.

Exclusively drafting where you have a bad % of converting on your draft picks is not a reasonable strategy... you just can't tell your fans that.

 

[RedMenace]

I'm on a path to shatter my liver. At least it only hurts afterward.

 

[Bench]

Records are made to be broken. Let's be #1, baby!

 

[SirloinUB]

A little column A, a little column B
Signing of some of these free agents exhausted their cap and inhibited their ability to add meaningful talent in free agency as well. Perhaps that meaningful talent wasn't coming here anyway, but when you've got nearly $17 million in cap space tied up in 4 players that can barely hack it in the NHL anymore, that's a huge problem. That can afford 2 all-star caliber players.

But if the drafting is better maybe we don't give contracts to some of these guys. Like if we draft Kuztnetsov over sheahan in 2010 and josh anderson over Frk and Patterson in 2012 then maybe we don't sign Abdelkader and Nielsen to their large long term deals in 2015 and 2016.

Obviously hindsight is 2020 but better drafting would have altered the need to resign some of these vets.

 

[TheClap]

But if the drafting is better maybe we don't give contracts to some of these guys. Like if we draft Kuztnetsov over sheahan in 2010 and josh anderson over Frk and Patterson in 2012 then maybe we don't sign Abdelkader and Nielsen to their large long term deals in 2015 and 2016.

Obviously hindsight is 2020 but better drafting would have altered the need to resign some of these vets.

No doubt.
But to borrow that baseball metaphor, if our draft was only as good as a few singles and doubles over that time period, in the free agency market Holland not only struck out, he struck out bunting while crapping his pants.
That's why it's a little of both. But I don't disagree with what you're saying, and it probably sways more heavily in the poor drafting direction.

 

[avssuc]

I looked up to see what the NHL record for worst goal differential was, and holy cow the 74-75 Capitals were bad.

-265. That's insane.

I was kinda disappointed when I saw that. Part of me really wanted the Wings to be the worst ever, the other part struggled to understand how that's mathematically possible.

I'm on a path to shatter my liver. At least it only hurts afterward.

This is really the only comment that I identify with so far. This is almost Detroit Lions mediocrity, so all you can do is try to medicate.

 

[Gniwder]

I looked up to see what the NHL record for worst goal differential was, and holy cow the 74-75 Capitals were bad.

-265. That's insane.

The NHL was not kind to expansion teams back then. It's amazing that the team managed to survive, even more amazing that's it's still in DC which did not have a huge fan base until Ovechkin and recent success. I guess it helps that the Redskins suck.

Up until around 2010, you could get playoff tickets at the window on game day.

 

[theYman]

What's the team record for worst? Anybody know??