Pre-Game Talk: Wings @ Canucks, Wednesday at 10:30 (Franzen out with injury, Glendening Recalled)

[Syckle78]

The Sammy signing was not all that bad when you think of what he could of brought. He was supposed to be a 40-45 point guy, play on try PP and do alright. I'm sure management didn't expect him to get injured all year last year and then suck. Cleary signing isn't really that bad. Brings leadership which we lack, some grit, and is actually improved from last year. You can't role a line up with a bunch of 20-24 year olds, you do that you end up like Edmonton. It doesn't work. You guys need to stop be subjective and look at it from many point of views. Ask yourself what are the pros and cons of certain situations. Then be true to yourself in evaluating the importance of each pro and con.

Oh please, Detroit has enough veteran leadership without Dan ****ing Cleary. Yea we would be just like Edmonton.....if Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Howard, Kronwall all ceased to exist. They were and are. Bad signings and if you can't see that even with the benefit if hindsight I don't know what to tell ya.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Kinda, but if Holland bought out Tootoo or did any number of other things, both players could be up.

And when has Babcock lately put the youngsters on this team in any position to be successful? Seriously I will wait, you can say it isn't because they are very good and that might be fair as several disappoint, but how can you not honestly question this? Even the most ardent Holland supporters (I would consider myself one) have admitted to having their confidence shaken in Holland, might I ask what it takes for you to see that Babcock is not doing the best job he can do in icing lines, D-pairings making the roster selections with the roster he is given because there it is his call.

Quite frankly this team has not functioned the same structurally since the disappearance of McLellan. At what point do we talk about the fact McLellan has spanked Babcock twice, MacLean put a miserable beating on him last week. Congrats to him for hiring good guys, but it seems his voice has gotten stale, he himself said the team looks like it isn't even coached. Seriously what does it take to see some sort of even share of blame Heaton, what is Babcock's responsibility in all this to you?

 

[mindfly]

Nyquist won't play a game in detroit this year, maybe in the playoffs - that is if they make it. Then FINALLY next season when he's exposed to waivers, Holland must keep him.... So Nyquist, at age 25, finally gets to start playing hockey full-time with the wings in the fall of 2014... What a way to reward a NCAA MVP winner(?)/finalist, AHL MVP finalist, PPG player for 2+ seasons etc etc etc

He should just say **** YOU and demand a trade.

 

[Sergei DRW]

Cleary is some ******* child of Babs or what? How can he get top line minutes, seriously? Those spots are earned by 50-60 point seasons.

 

[The Zermanator]

And when has Babcock lately put the youngsters on this team in any position to be successful? Seriously I will wait, you can say it isn't because they are very good and that might be fair as several disappoint, but how can you not honestly question this? Even the most ardent Holland supporters (I would consider myself one) have admitted to having their confidence shaken in Holland, might I ask what it takes for you to see that Babcock is not doing the best job he can do in icing lines, D-pairings making the roster selections with the roster he is given because there it is his call.

Quite frankly this team has not functioned the same structurally since the disappearance of McLellan. At what point do we talk about the fact McLellan has spanked Babcock twice, MacLean put a miserable beating on him last week. Congrats to him for hiring good guys, but it seems his voice has gotten stale, he himself said the team looks like it isn't even coached. Seriously what does it take to see some sort of even share of blame Heaton, what is Babcock's responsibility in all this to you?

I'm gonna have to defend Babcock here. DeKeyser, from the start, has been put in a position to be successful. Nyquist was used plenty in the playoffs last year, it's not Babcock's fault that Nyquist is in Grand Rapids now. Lately Tatar is being played with the top 6. Apparently he'll be playing with Datsyuk against the Canucks. We can whine all we want about Smith being paired with Quincey but Smith has sucked too. I'm done making excuses for him. Smith needs to step up.

And I wouldn't exactly call a 1-0 shootout win a "miserable beating."

 

[sully6one]

Oh please, Detroit has enough veteran leadership without Dan ****ing Cleary. Yea we would be just like Edmonton.....if Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Howard, Kronwall all ceased to exist. They were and are. Bad signings and if you can't see that even with the benefit if hindsight I don't know what to tell ya.

How much of a leader is Datsyuk really? I don't see him as much of a vocal leader. You need vocal leaders to be successful. You guys really want a bottom six of all rookies or second year players? Find me one team that had 4 rookie or second year players that was successful playing in the bottom 6.

 

[Frk It]

How much of a leader is Datsyuk really? I don't see him as much of a vocal leader. You need vocal leaders to be successful. You guys really want a bottom six of all rookies or second year players? Find me one team that had 4 rookie or second year players that was successful playing in the bottom 6.

The Chicago Blackhawks...

 

[SoupNazi]

And I wouldn't exactly call a 1-0 shootout win a "miserable beating."

No, but Ottawa's beating of us was.

 

[sully6one]

The Chicago Blackhawks...

Shaw and Saad is actually only 2.

 

[Frk It]

Shaw and Saad is actually only 2.

They started they year with Saad, Shaw, Kruger, and Nordstrom all in their bottom 6.

All 4 of those guys were drafted same draft as Nyquist or later.

 

[sully6one]

They started they year with Saad, Shaw, Kruger, and Nordstrom all in their bottom 6.

All 4 of those guys were drafted same draft as Nyquist or later.

Shaw is in his 3rd year and Kruger is in his 3rd or 4th. Any in the past where you can see how successful they were at seasons end? There aren't any.

 

[Vladdy84]

How much of a leader is Datsyuk really? I don't see him as much of a vocal leader. You need vocal leaders to be successful. You guys really want a bottom six of all rookies or second year players? Find me one team that had 4 rookie or second year players that was successful playing in the bottom 6.

Sick of this. How vocal was Nick? or Stevie Y? These are all professionals. True leadership is playing 100% at all times. Leadership my ass. I can guarandamntee you Dan Cleary doesn't give a **** about the rookies or young players on that team. He just wants to keep playing hockey.

 

[InjuredChoker]

How much of a leader is Datsyuk really? I don't see him as much of a vocal leader. You need vocal leaders to be successful. You guys really want a bottom six of all rookies or second year players? Find me one team that had 4 rookie or second year players that was successful playing in the bottom 6.

hawks had 3 last year.

shaw, saad and kruger.

tatar, nyquist, andersson.

 

[SoupNazi]

Nyquist won't play a game in detroit this year, maybe in the playoffs - that is if they make it. Then FINALLY next season when he's exposed to waivers, Holland must keep him.... So Nyquist, at age 25, finally gets to start playing hockey full-time with the wings in the fall of 2014... What a way to reward a NCAA MVP winner(?)/finalist, AHL MVP finalist, PPG player for 2+ seasons etc etc etc

He should just say **** YOU and demand a trade.

If Nyquist wasn't happy with his treatment, he didn't have to sign that two year deal last summer. He knew at the time that he had the possibility of going down to the AHL.

 

[sully6one]

Sick of this. How vocal was Nick? or Stevie Y? These are all professionals. True leadership is playing 100% at all times. Leadership my ass. I can guarandamntee you Dan Cleary doesn't give a **** about the rookies or young players on that team. He just wants to keep playing hockey.

Not very vocal but look who else was on those teams. Draper, Maltby, Osgood, Cleary, Drake, May, Hull, the list goes on for leadership. Everyone is going to want to play ahead of the next player. There's not a single guy in the league that'd quit to let another player play.

 

[Frk It]

hawks had 3 last year.

shaw, saad and kruger.

tatar, nyquist, andersson.

Ben Smith has only 26 NHL games to date, and was on their team for the Stanely Cup Finals. So if you add that, it's pretty much four.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I'm gonna have to defend Babcock here. DeKeyser, from the start, has been put in a position to be successful. Nyquist was used plenty in the playoffs last year, it's not Babcock's fault that Nyquist is in Grand Rapids now. Lately Tatar is being played with the top 6. Apparently he'll be playing with Datsyuk against the Canucks. We can whine all we want about Smith being paired with Quincey but Smith has sucked too. I'm done making excuses for him. Smith needs to step up.

And I wouldn't exactly call a 1-0 shootout win a "miserable beating."

Tatar still has sat more games than he has dressed and being on the roster full-time his deployment is straight down to Babcock.

Also if you believe and I do that Babcock shares at least equal blame on Cleary's existence on this team than what does that say? Holland should have said no to him, a big part of the problem is that Holland doesn't tell Babs to go pound sand more often, or tonight we are using this lineup. Last time I can think of that is out West last year when HSJ reported Babcock said Nyquist was sitting and low and behold game time rolled around and Nyquist was in followed by Holland saying he needs to play when he is up.

Smith does need to step up, I think we all agree on that. But the bingo ball lines that Babcock has been doing also hurts developing any chemistry. Cleary has to be moved up every game it appears at some point, they get jumbled constantly. You can say that like at least Babcock is trying, but that doesn't seem to be a very good coaching tactic.

As for miserable beatings, when it was attached to MacLean that is fair, what do you call 6-1 in your own rink, you could argue it wasn't even that close alarmingly.

McLellan beat us heads up in two straight playoffs, he has certainly done a number on Babs since leaving and looking at the system now, sure San Jose has more talent, but they have been playing a more puck possession oriented game since the day he showed up there than we are. What happened to our special teams the second he left, I think his departure just continues to prove out overtime just how important he was to Babcock's staff.

 

[Brick Top]

How much of a leader is Datsyuk really? I don't see him as much of a vocal leader. You need vocal leaders to be successful. You guys really want a bottom six of all rookies or second year players? Find me one team that had 4 rookie or second year players that was successful playing in the bottom 6.

So stiffs like Cleary and Sammy were brought back to help fill the leadership void created by Datsyuk?

Having vocal veteran leadership is great. Having a vocal leader like Cleary who sucks as a player might up less than ideal. What can he honestly tell these lost young sheep, anyway? "Hey kids, do as I say, but dear God not as I do out there on the ice or your ***es will be on the street or back in GR in no time."

The Wings have a LOT of veterans on this team. There is something seriously wrong with the leadership abilities of guys like Hank, Kronwall, Datsyuk, and all the others with 4 or more years in the NHL if Kenny felt compelled to live with below-average play on the ice and hold back more talented young guys just so Cleary's voice could be heard in the locker room.

 

[Frk It]

Shaw is in his 3rd year and Kruger is in his 3rd or 4th. Any in the past where you can see how successful they were at seasons end? There aren't any.

if you add up all the games played for the guys I listed, it would be less than the total of 2 complete NHL seasons. So saying they have "been in the league" for 3 or 4 years is a bit deceiving.

By your standards I could say Nyquist has been in the league more than 2 years, and so has Tatar. Since they have seen action in more than 2 NHL seasons.

 

[sully6one]

You don't see what players bring in terms of leadership in the locker room, but I've never heard a bad thing about Cleary in the locker room. And after what we saw last year with him being awful it's hard to change your perspective of a player. He's really not all that bad this year. Not good, but who is?

 

[lilidk]

Cleary is some ******* child of Babs or what? How can he get top line minutes, seriously? Those spots are earned by 50-60 point seasons.

oh please , stop it . He isn't why this team loosing

 

[Vladdy84]

You don't see what players bring in terms of leadership in the locker room, but I've never heard a bad thing about Cleary in the locker room. And after what we saw last year with him being awful it's hard to change your perspective of a player. He's really not all that bad this year. Not good, but who is?

When lately have you ever heard ANYTHING bad about a player in the locker from world class professional journalists like HSJ?

 

[sully6one]

hawks had 3 last year.

shaw, saad and kruger.

tatar, nyquist, andersson.

Kruger has played 170 games so far, I don't think he'd be considered a 2nd year player.

 

[Bench]

If we're going to talk about Cleary, let's talk about how he's 7th in TOI for forwards. He's pretty much neck and neck with Andersson and smack in the middle of the pack. Speaking of, I couldn't be more indifferent on a player than I am with Andersson. But I digress.

Now I get it, everybody hates Cleary, but his name gets mentioned in these discussions way more than 7th .

The fate of this team is going to rest on the guys getting top 6 minutes and the top defenders. The big issues are Franzen, Weiss, and Abdelkader. Big minutes, no production.

Then immediately follow that up with Quincey, Smith, and Kindl. More significant minutes with 3 points combined between the three.

So Cleary shouldn't be on the team, okay, but since his signing he's received a disproportionate amount of blame for the state of the team.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

You don't see what players bring in terms of leadership in the locker room, but I've never heard a bad thing about Cleary in the locker room. And after what we saw last year with him being awful it's hard to change your perspective of a player. He's really not all that bad this year. Not good, but who is?

We have one of the softest media in the league, the Wings have seen to that. But many National publications deadpanned his re-signing and even Khan didn't pull punches on that one.