Classicnamesup
MVP Backhand Slapper
Well it was bound to happen, Weiss had a chance and didn't perform like he needed to. Good luck
Confirmed with Link: Wings Buy Out Final 3 Years of Weiss' Contract
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Heaton
Moderator
Honestly, who else was Holland going to sign? He was going to find a replacement for Filppula no matter what, Weiss is a hometown guy - everything smells like a comfortable Holland signing.
Eh, I don't really question that Babcock pushed for him. Weiss plays a north-south game without a lot of frills. While he ended up in Babcock's doghouse, it's a game that I think would clearly appeal to him. It also doesn't say that Holland didn't like Weiss. The guy who I think was against signing Weiss was Devellano. My impression is that Jimmy D and Babcock often found themselves on opposite ends of an argument, and it's something we saw rumored during the contract negotiations where at least one article mentioned some in management wanting to just walk away from Babcock, while Holland was the driving force behind retaining him.
LeighDx59
Registered User
Does make you revisit the issue of why we didnt' re-sign Flip.
You're still avoiding what Khan said-- that Babcock pushed for Weiss. They must have had people in mind, and this is the one Babs (allegedly) wanted KH to pursue.
Yeah, the way the team seemed to flip-flop on the puck possession/N-S guys? You know I always found it odd.
If no one is brought in I will be at a 9. There is no point to buying him out this year for a additional 2 years of cap penalties. Compared to next year buyout that would be 4 years with none higher than 2 million.
If someone is brought in than I will be fine. But if no one is brought in I will be pretty mad because it makes no sense to do it then this year.
Sami
Registered User
- Oct 21, 2013
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Chex LeMeneux
Registered User
At worst it'd be like this
Babcock: I need a big right handed winger!
Holland: How about Samuelsson?
Babcock: Sure
Babcock: I need a Filppula replacement!
Holland: How about Weiss?
Babcock: Sure
MOD That's the number one way to piss off a coach, especially when the coach is as outspoken as Babcock was.
FWIW I distinctly remember reading something last year that suggested Babcock was all for the Weiss signing and was disappointed when he realized Weiss wasn't the player he thought he was. So at the very least Babcock was in favor of the deal when it was made. No idea if that was a Khan or HSJ article, so I won't even attempt to look for it.
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Probie
Registered User
Chex LeMeneux
Registered User
As others have said, there's no reason to make this move (and, in fact, good reason not to) if we're not adding a contract or two this offseason. Sorry for the squiffy math here, but according to generalfanager.com our cap is around 57 mil. Add 4 for Nyquist, about 1.5 for Jurco and Pulk each (generous I know) and you're at 64. When Quincey comes off the books that's an additional 4.25 to sign everyone next year, but I'd probably bump that up to 6 to be safe. So we're looking at about 65+ mil. With the cap at 71+, that gives us roughly six to work with, but I was being very conservative, so maybe somewhere around 7. Definitely enough to sign Green or Franson, or make a trade for an impact player.
Don't want anything to do with Semin though.
Don't want anything to do with Semin though.
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It is a typical Kenny signing. He put up 30+ last year I believe. He is 36 or 37 so it is line with what Kenny said in interviews about wanting a shorter termed player. He has been doing this for too long it is known. Won't surprise me in the slightest and in my viewings of him (limited keep in mind) it didn't look like he had fallen off the wheels yet. So he can slot into 2nd pairing minutes with DD and take qb duties of second power play team minutes.
Run the Jewels
Make Detroit Great Again
I was in favor of acquiring Visnovsky a few years back and he'd definitely be a Dan Boyle level acquisition, ie he'd accept a short term deal. With that being said he's clearly on the downside of his career, so he'd be an obvious target for Holland.
Chex LeMeneux
Registered User
Even if Weiss was still on the books we could have added 3.5 or so after signing everyone. Why do this unless whatever we're bringing back 4-4.5+ mil (not 100% sure on the math, but I think that's around the upper limit). Maybe if we're bringing multiple people, but I wouldn't be a fan of that. It's impact defenseman or bust, and those will cost more than 4 mil.
Dotter
THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
I don't get why you guys try to come up with these dialogues. All the article said what that Babs pushed for Weiss.
I recall a similar article. Thing is, the GM goes out and signs him to a $25 MM contract? And you get, Oh gee, he wasn't the guy I thought he was.
Something really bizarre about the entire thing, but we may never know.
There are no impact d-men this year in UFA. Unless he gets a signed and trade on Buff for KFQ+2016 first + b prospect. Green was outperformed by Brooks ****ing Orpik last year for the #4 spot on the capitals D. He might fit decently at the #4 spot with DD but he is not worth 6+. And that is what he will cost to bring in. No one else is a top 4 guy that won't cause headaches. Franson is ****ing terrible. Lubomir is my bet who we sign if we sign someone.
Chex LeMeneux
Registered User
I'm not referring to this article, I'm referring to an article I read a while back in which that is exactly what was implied. If I remember the article correctly (and I will admit it's been a while so I may not be 100% accurate), it went something like Babcock pushed hard for Weiss to replace Fil, prompting Holland to sign him, someone in the organization (perhaps Devallano, as has been suggested) said "you know, I don't think Weiss is the player/person you think he is" and that was confirmed very early on. So at the very least, it was evidence prior to now that Babcock vouched for Weiss in some way. So if he vouched for Weiss, why is Holland getting all the blame here? Midway through next season all we're going to see is that Holland, and Holland alone, messed up by signing Weiss, even when there's evidence suggesting otherwise.
But you make an excellent point, we don't know what happened behind the scenes. Just like we didn't know what happened when Holland signed Samuelsson after Babcock was begging for a right shot, or when they signed Tootoo after Babcock said we need more grit. But that doesn't matter because Holland is automatically the bad guy. Be fair in your criticisms. If you have no clue what happened, than don't just assume Holland is the only one at fault. I'll say it again, GMs do not operate unilaterally.
Chex LeMeneux
Registered User
I mean, that's fine, I won't get into the "is Green worth it" debate. My point is why buyout Weiss if you're just going to target someone you could have afforded without buying out Weiss?
HIFE
Registered User
Holland himself said it was inevitable, if not now then next season. The issue has nothing to do with signings next season or saving on the buyout penalty- it's about being serious and real considering each member of this team. Please it's an injustice to Weiss and his fans not to realize his hockey career is hanging by a thread, how far he's slipped dealing with a sports hernia. Weiss was a great player in his day and I also was one of many excited when he and Alfie were signed 2 years ago but it didn't work out time to turn the page.
I am VERY encouraged by this buyout...if nothing else this OS with Weiss and Cleary gone our team is 200% better. The Red Wings are moving in the right direction- forward!
Sami
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- Oct 21, 2013
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Weiss was injured badly when he came in his first training camp and is a shell of the former player he once was and that's why he was benched so frequently. There's nothing bizarre-injuries ruined his career and they cut him to free up a roster spot.
Marchenko will likely be better once he gets the ice time to grow and get better. That's what Holland is probably betting on happening this season. These young players gotta play eventually.
Sami
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- Oct 21, 2013
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I hope this as well. But if I have understood anything that Holland has said, only one of Marchenko/Ouellet is going to be with Wings. I would like to see them both. That's one of the reasons I'm not happy with the Smith signing.
Kronwall - Ericsson
DeKeyser - Smith
Quincey - Marchenko/Ouellet
There is no room for both of them
Chex LeMeneux
Registered User
I have no doubt it was inevitable, but there's still the issue of having 6 years of dead cap space vs 4 if we don't use up the money saved this year. And if that happens, I think this move will be foolish on Holland's part.
I respect the idea that he may have done it strictly for Weiss' benefit, but that's not a very popular opinion around here. Many people already argue that Holland coddles the players too much, this would only add fuel to that fire.
